Pricing questions...

[elementfe]

The person who bought that is almost certainly seeing it as an investment- if you have 44 mil sitting around, and there are people who do, you buy something that is perceived to be "in demand."
Has nothing to do with how difficult it was to make. Chances are it'll stay in climate controlled storage or be hung (with a big tax break since it's a temporary donation) in the owner's civic museum. Now that I think of it, the tax break probably makes it a good investment.
I'd rather make something that rides on a hip or in a pocket.

 

[timos-]

Very interesting discussion here. Aaron, I am becoming more familiar with your work and have read many of your posts. I think you can go in two directions from here. Sell more knives for less or less knives for more to make the same amount of money. Either way you have to decide what will be more satisfying to you and what will make you more $. I am not aware of any business that ever lowers prices. Does anyone actually do that? Maybe the giant corporations do this as a gimmick but that does not apply to any of us. Continue finding that niche (even creating it) and be the best at it. As far as the discussion of hobby makers/ weekend warriors having a negative impact on prices, well listen its not too sound to start a business that is prey to this sort of competition to begin with. Pro Knife makers have to find ways to offer things that a hobbyist cant touch.

 

[David Stifle]

Very interesting discussion here. Aaron, I am becoming more familiar with your work and have read many of your posts. I think you can go in two directions from here. Sell more knives for less or less knives for more to make the same amount of money. Either way you have to decide what will be more satisfying to you and what will make you more $. I am not aware of any business that ever lowers prices. Does anyone actually do that? Maybe the giant corporations do this as a gimmick but that does not apply to any of us. Continue finding that niche (even creating it) and be the best at it. As far as the discussion of hobby makers/ weekend warriors having a negative impact on prices, well listen its not too sound to start a business that is prey to this sort of competition to begin with. Pro Knife makers have to find ways to offer things that a hobbyist cant touch.

Tim, I've seen dozens of makers lower their prices. Just take a look at the for sale forum. They start out at, say $400., a few days later as their for sale item begins to sink, they bump it up with a price reduction. And keep on doing that until it sells. How else is your work going to find its market value?

As for pro-makers vs hobbiest, yes, I can see how hobbiest could impact a pro-makers sales, but a pro-maker shouldn't depend just on BF alone to generate sales anyway. You're just inviting competition if you do. Knife shows, websites, advertisements need to be part of the strategy too.

 

[aarongough]

Aaron,

Have you considered KMG smuggling instead of Knifemaking?

Getting my KMG to Canada was quite the affair! I ended up having to get a friend who lives in Canada but is American bring it back for me after a visit to his folks... I've talked to Rob Frink and he doesn't seem to mind that they're coming across the border, just doesn't want to have to deal with sending them across himself, which is fair as it can be a bunch of work from a paperwork perspective.

Can't say I'd want to smuggle them for a living though... Perhaps my friend would be up to the task

 

[aarongough]

As someone new to this craft, I've been following this thread closely for obvious reasons. With that said, I can't tell if I've gained clarity on this subject or further confusion.

Haha, I'm right there with you on that.

I think when it comes down to it we all have to just try to do what's best for ourselves and our customers. We're not doing the customers any favours if we lack on our fit & finish, or our heat-treatment, or something else, just to get the price down or the profit up.

Similarly there's a reasonable upper ceiling for the cost of user knives. Simply because beyond a certain point they're not likely to get used anymore. However what that upper limit is still depends on where you're selling to and who your market is. This is something that I've stressed about in the past, and it will continue to be at the front of my mind because I consider myself to make tools... And tools need to be used to be true to their purpose!

When aesthetics are the primary consideration, as is the case with art knives, then I think all that goes out the window and the whole thing becomes much more varied. Generally prices go up in this case because the fit and finish time on complicated pieces will increase simply by necessity.

I guess the summary for me so far is:

• Make good knives
• Charge what you think is reasonable
• Charge enough to make the process of making knives sustainable for you
• Make sure you have enough buyers
• Make sure your buyers are happy

The last point, and the one that hit me and got this thread started:

Acknowledge that your knives are never going to be suited for everyone. Price, design, materials, purpose... All of these things vary from knife to knife, and will never be suited to all potential buyers. Most people understand that, but occasionally you get someone (like the guy that I got) who takes the fact that your design philosophy is different to his as an affront that needs to be corrected.

It's probably impossible to make that kind of guy happy, he's already made up his mind, so it's probably best just to make sure you don't get too caught up. I wasn't able to see my way clear without help this time, but next time I will do better.

We're all going to be sensitive to this stuff to some extent, because regardless of whether this is a business or a hobby we wouldn't be here talking about it amongst our peers if we weren't passionate about what we do...

 

[zcd]

The forge was nice and warm last night. We had -29c earlier this week. Definitely not working outside.

I had to stand really close to the forge last week, it was nippy!

 

[james terrio]

With that said, I can't tell if I've gained clarity on this subject or further confusion.

Welcome to my world

There are no solid, across-the-board answers, just a variety of complex questions we must all answer for ourselves.

Handmade knives aren't a commodity where the price is set per blade-inch or by feature, and every farmer in the co-op gets the same price for his milk or corn or whatever. Nor does a maker automatically get a raise by having a certain amount of experience or exposure. It just doesn't work that way, despite reams of articles and threads trying to corral the market into neat little categories.

I am not aware of any business that ever lowers prices.

They do it all the time! I can buy a computer today for half the price of one 10-15 years ago that was nowhere near as powerful. Heck, the PC I had then wouldn't even run the OS I'm using now. But again, that's not a good or even fair analogy. As Andy and others have pointed out, we're not just selling a product, we're selling a craft.

 

[timos-]

Tim, I've seen dozens of makers lower their prices. Just take a look at the for sale forum. They start out at, say $400., a few days later as their for sale item begins to sink, they bump it up with a price reduction. And keep on doing that until it sells. How else is your work going to find its market value?

As for pro-makers vs hobbiest, yes, I can see how hobbiest could impact a pro-makers sales, but a pro-maker shouldn't depend just on BF alone to generate sales anyway. You're just inviting competition if you do. Knife shows, websites, advertisements need to be part of the strategy too.

I should clarify:
I was thinking there is a difference between reducing a price for a particular knife just to sell it or finding a market value as opposed to a maker who already found a market value and is contemplating reducing prices overall to reach more customers. I thought the OP was referring only to an "overall" price reduction.
You make good points about generating sales. BF is just one market and it may have a different value than say other places like a knife show or ones own website.

 

[ron_m80]

I would only like to add that you should know what your work is worth TO YOU.

Discussing a makers profit, or costs, to negotiate pricing would be the same as a maker telling a customer to check out a good financial councilor to plan their next purchase.

 

[Smithy]

I also have gained a lot of information from this thread. I spent the last 30 years as a retail 'special order mfg.' in the jewelry business. And, the problems faced by the full-time knife makers are the same one's I had. After a while, dealing with making things 'other' people wanted, my sense of creativity seemed to vanish...and it turned into a loss of my love for making jewelry. But when I did, I was the cheif cook and bottle washer. The constant concerns about meeting the house payment, the insurance, the studio rent, and all these things resulted in my spending more time on 'administrative' stuff than making what I wanted. A constant drag (and it was 24/7).

When I closed my studio and decided to get BACK to making knives, I had to re-train myself that this is just a hobby and not to worry about 'selling' each knife I make. I will NEVER take a special order again. If I treated this like a business I would have to develop a buisness plan, fund it to buy equipment and supplies , make sales projections and the like. If I didn't I would find myself between a rock and a hard place real quick. I have the utmost respect for the full time makers that support themselves by making knives.

As far as your pricing is concerned, if it's going to be a business you have to do all the things I spoke of. If it's a hobby, just have fun and don't worry about 'selling'. Teddy