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Primitive living tools: axe, knife, and saw...which first?
- Thread starter Plainsman
- Start date
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
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- Oct 5, 1998
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- 17,562
Concerning the "dangerous nature" of axes/hatchets, I have seen no evidence of that living in a small communitity (<1000) where just one generation ago all houses burnt wood as the primary source of heat and all wood was cut with axes.
They are bladed tools of course and can if used improperly cause harm. It is obvious that a full sized axe has a higher ability for maximum injury than a bowie, but a bowie vs a small hatchet is not as clear. I could easily lop my wrist off with either.
As for loggers and such higest injury rate being with axes, then yes they are probably more likely to cause injury than chainsaws as they don't have the same safety features. However if the loggers started using large blade like parangs I doubt that the injury rate would drop it is the type of work not the tool.
It seems odd to me in any case that the injury rate is high. The only injuries that I have heard off are that are axe related are; an individual was struck with a piece of wood during splitting (he was not the one splitting the wood), and two others who had to have their fingers stiched back on after a "game" of lay your hand on the chopping block.
As for primitive living, a family friend lives less than 1 mile from away in a house with no electricity, nor running water. He grows his own vegetables, cuts wood for heat (with an axe and a bucksaw), and buys nothing but a bucket of salt meat to supplement his garden. He has at time had livestock but now just has a horse for pulling out the wood. He is living now just as he was about 40 years ago. He is the last of his kind around here though.
-Cliff
They are bladed tools of course and can if used improperly cause harm. It is obvious that a full sized axe has a higher ability for maximum injury than a bowie, but a bowie vs a small hatchet is not as clear. I could easily lop my wrist off with either.
As for loggers and such higest injury rate being with axes, then yes they are probably more likely to cause injury than chainsaws as they don't have the same safety features. However if the loggers started using large blade like parangs I doubt that the injury rate would drop it is the type of work not the tool.
It seems odd to me in any case that the injury rate is high. The only injuries that I have heard off are that are axe related are; an individual was struck with a piece of wood during splitting (he was not the one splitting the wood), and two others who had to have their fingers stiched back on after a "game" of lay your hand on the chopping block.
As for primitive living, a family friend lives less than 1 mile from away in a house with no electricity, nor running water. He grows his own vegetables, cuts wood for heat (with an axe and a bucksaw), and buys nothing but a bucket of salt meat to supplement his garden. He has at time had livestock but now just has a horse for pulling out the wood. He is living now just as he was about 40 years ago. He is the last of his kind around here though.
-Cliff
Let's examine a hypothetical situation. It's been raining for a week and suddenly turns cold and begins snowing. You are canoing in the wilderness and unfortunately, you've tipped over your canoe. You have a) the axe lashed to your canoe, or b)your king sized bowie knife strapped to your leg. Which one would you prefer to have in this situation? The snow is falling fast and heavy. The temperature is dropping quickly. The snowfall could last for a week. Who knows? You are soaked head to foot and that's all the clothes you have. Which tool will be the most efficient at getting the DRY heartwood you desperately need to build the ROARING fire you need to survive? In just a few hours, you could be dead from hypothermia. Personally, I will take the axe every time. The chopping alone will generate enough metabolic heat to begin warming my body up. I will very quicky be able to get DRY wood to start a fire and I can fuel that fire all night long with dry wood because I have an axe. Good luck with the big knife. I seriously doubt it will be more efficient at saving your hide. If you want to scramble around looking for dry pieces of wood the size of your wrist, have fun. I've camped in many a long term downpour, with and without an axe and I was always grateful for the axe. And if that snow does last for a week or more, you will be happy for the substantial shelter you were able to create quickly with the big axe. And for winter camping, I would never dream of leaving the axe at home! Of course, now days we have high tech clothes and equipment etc and I have spent weeks in the backcountry with only an SAK as a cutting tool. But if we are talking late fall, winter, and early spring, you could end up in a survival situation very quickly, especially, if you are crossing ice, or traveling by canoe. And when I canoe during those times, the axe always comes along.
"Next to the rifle, a backwoodsman's main reliance is on his axe. With these two instruments, and little else, our pioneers attacked the forest wilderness that once covered all eastern America, and won it for civilization." Horace Kephart, Camping and Woodcraft, 1917.
"The axe is the most important of the basic bush tools. Outside of fire, little else can contribute more to living comfortably in the wilderness than knowing how to properly use a well-chosen axe." Bushcraft, Mors Kochanski
"The northern forest traveler...may, to lighten his load, discard all of the articles in his outfit which are not absolutely essential, but never by any chance is the axe among those cast aside, because this tool is the most necessary and the most useful article used by the bushman." -Woodcraft, 1910
"Even more useful and more necessary than the knife is the hunting axe, in fact, an axe of some sort is indespensable to the trapper and camper, and it should be selected with care, especially when one is going into the wilderness on a camping trip, and must depend on fire for comfort at night." E. Kreps, 1910
"The notion that a heavy hunting knife can do the work of a hatchet is a delusion...A camper's hatchet should have the edge and temper of a good axe." Horace Kephart 1916
"And just here let me digress for a little chat on the indispensable hatchet; for it is the most difficult piece of camp kit to obtain in perfection of which I have any knowledge. Before I was a dozen years old I came to realize that a light hatchet was a sine qua non in woodcraft, and I also found it the most difficult thing to get." -Nessmuk, 1920
"The trend today is against the use of axes in the backcountry. The argument is that they are more often used to deface green trees and injure people than to produce firewood. In truth, it is not the tool that is dangerous, it is the person who wields it. Outdoor experts value a good sharp axe. They know it is much simpler to produce fire after a week long rain if a splitting tool of some sort is available." Cliff Jacobson, Camping's Top Secrets, 1998
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
"Next to the rifle, a backwoodsman's main reliance is on his axe. With these two instruments, and little else, our pioneers attacked the forest wilderness that once covered all eastern America, and won it for civilization." Horace Kephart, Camping and Woodcraft, 1917.
"The axe is the most important of the basic bush tools. Outside of fire, little else can contribute more to living comfortably in the wilderness than knowing how to properly use a well-chosen axe." Bushcraft, Mors Kochanski
"The northern forest traveler...may, to lighten his load, discard all of the articles in his outfit which are not absolutely essential, but never by any chance is the axe among those cast aside, because this tool is the most necessary and the most useful article used by the bushman." -Woodcraft, 1910
"Even more useful and more necessary than the knife is the hunting axe, in fact, an axe of some sort is indespensable to the trapper and camper, and it should be selected with care, especially when one is going into the wilderness on a camping trip, and must depend on fire for comfort at night." E. Kreps, 1910
"The notion that a heavy hunting knife can do the work of a hatchet is a delusion...A camper's hatchet should have the edge and temper of a good axe." Horace Kephart 1916
"And just here let me digress for a little chat on the indispensable hatchet; for it is the most difficult piece of camp kit to obtain in perfection of which I have any knowledge. Before I was a dozen years old I came to realize that a light hatchet was a sine qua non in woodcraft, and I also found it the most difficult thing to get." -Nessmuk, 1920
"The trend today is against the use of axes in the backcountry. The argument is that they are more often used to deface green trees and injure people than to produce firewood. In truth, it is not the tool that is dangerous, it is the person who wields it. Outdoor experts value a good sharp axe. They know it is much simpler to produce fire after a week long rain if a splitting tool of some sort is available." Cliff Jacobson, Camping's Top Secrets, 1998
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 9,993
I've used an ax, a single bit Iltis with a 3/4 length handle, to skin a moose. The crescent-shaped blade worked fine except in the corners, where the handle tended to get in the way. Probably an ulu would have been better. If I had one tool to choose from, it would be an ax. However, my next trip will include a collapsible Swede saw, along with the usual cutlery.
All right Hoodoo, I got your point.....
I admit I have to reiterate my opinion. My answer was a bit quick-handed based on my experience under warmer climate and less harsh conditions than provided in your example. These harder conditions which might be common as you go North dictate the use of an axe as the primary/most important survival tool. That seems to be consistant between your opinion (academically well-supported with exact references
), and others frequenting the Nothern woods. Point is taken.
Furthermore, priority calls for fighting hypothermia first and quickly. That supports the axe as primary tool too under the conditions you mentioned. In that competition in wood chopping my "king size bowie" is not going to be a winner, for sure.
However, besides its great chopping ability it would fall behind the knife in most tasks. At least in my hands, using the axes that I have seen/handled. Certainly, I could try to skin/butcher a moose (or a mouse) with it as Alberta Ed did. In my case, it would probably make a good horror movie nothing else.
Given the "single-tool-you-can-choose" nature of my answer (probably a bit esoteric) I took the large knife as a more versatile tool over the axe which would be less versatile in my hand. I did not think about any specific situation whether it is winter, jungle, desert, salt water, high mountain or arctic survival. You are right, in the described scenario you are better off with an axe to get a larger fire quicker. So, we'll soon get to the "it depends" point of the debate- as usual. That will show the esoteric nature of the dilemma and lead to personal experience, preference and whatever situation that person has in his mind or experience.
Thanks for pointing out where I was wrong and not sparing the efforts to support your point.
HM
PS: Hoodoo, I actually posted my note with a tongue in the cheek. I found it kinda funny to point out how well the aboriginals were doing before the settlers in an argument for the importance of the metal axe.
One more thing and then I promise I gonna shut it up. Under less severe conditions, I have succeeded couple of times in starting a fire that eventually dried and consumed thicker branches. The tipi shaped fire dried the wood and somewhat sheltered the fire from rain and wind. I would not like to experiment with this at the edge of life and death but would certainly try as a last ditch. Also, picking wood also increases metabolic activity similar to wood chopping
I admit I have to reiterate my opinion. My answer was a bit quick-handed based on my experience under warmer climate and less harsh conditions than provided in your example. These harder conditions which might be common as you go North dictate the use of an axe as the primary/most important survival tool. That seems to be consistant between your opinion (academically well-supported with exact references
Furthermore, priority calls for fighting hypothermia first and quickly. That supports the axe as primary tool too under the conditions you mentioned. In that competition in wood chopping my "king size bowie" is not going to be a winner, for sure.
However, besides its great chopping ability it would fall behind the knife in most tasks. At least in my hands, using the axes that I have seen/handled. Certainly, I could try to skin/butcher a moose (or a mouse) with it as Alberta Ed did. In my case, it would probably make a good horror movie nothing else.
Given the "single-tool-you-can-choose" nature of my answer (probably a bit esoteric) I took the large knife as a more versatile tool over the axe which would be less versatile in my hand. I did not think about any specific situation whether it is winter, jungle, desert, salt water, high mountain or arctic survival. You are right, in the described scenario you are better off with an axe to get a larger fire quicker. So, we'll soon get to the "it depends" point of the debate- as usual. That will show the esoteric nature of the dilemma and lead to personal experience, preference and whatever situation that person has in his mind or experience.
Thanks for pointing out where I was wrong and not sparing the efforts to support your point.
HM
PS: Hoodoo, I actually posted my note with a tongue in the cheek. I found it kinda funny to point out how well the aboriginals were doing before the settlers in an argument for the importance of the metal axe.
One more thing and then I promise I gonna shut it up. Under less severe conditions, I have succeeded couple of times in starting a fire that eventually dried and consumed thicker branches. The tipi shaped fire dried the wood and somewhat sheltered the fire from rain and wind. I would not like to experiment with this at the edge of life and death but would certainly try as a last ditch. Also, picking wood also increases metabolic activity similar to wood chopping
Come on! It's been raining for a week, with the chance of snow, and you're in a canoe, alone, with no fire-fuel? But I'll play along anyway...
I would still take the knife.
When you tipped the canoe over, the best thing to do is get out of the water as quickly as possible. The last thing you want to do is be in freezing water chasing a canoe (which is either sinking or moving downstream) and then trying to unstrap an ax, and then swim back to shore. There's a good chance you would'nt even think to retrieve the ax or be able to (especially if the stream is fast moving).
Since the knife is already strapped to you, you can get to shore as fast as possible. Then you can get out of the wet clothes, wring them out and redress. And if you kept your wallet in a ziplock bag (which you should have since you were canoeing), you can use your ID, papers, fishing license, money, ect to start a fire.
It's a horrible situation no matter which you choose (knife or ax). It's also a good example of why you should check the local forecast and plan accordingly.
I would still take the knife.
When you tipped the canoe over, the best thing to do is get out of the water as quickly as possible. The last thing you want to do is be in freezing water chasing a canoe (which is either sinking or moving downstream) and then trying to unstrap an ax, and then swim back to shore. There's a good chance you would'nt even think to retrieve the ax or be able to (especially if the stream is fast moving).
Since the knife is already strapped to you, you can get to shore as fast as possible. Then you can get out of the wet clothes, wring them out and redress. And if you kept your wallet in a ziplock bag (which you should have since you were canoeing), you can use your ID, papers, fishing license, money, ect to start a fire.
It's a horrible situation no matter which you choose (knife or ax). It's also a good example of why you should check the local forecast and plan accordingly.
From your statement, Allen, I can only assume you haven't spent much time in the Northwoods. I once backpacked Isle Royale in the Fall for two weeks when it rained every day, and snowed on several days. I can recall at least a half dozen similar examples. I bowhunt in the fall and have spent weeks at a time being rainsoaked. Rain and snow in the Fall and Spring are the norm in the Northwoods. And I love it! BTW, when you spill your canoe, you will almost always be able to recover it unless you are in really wild and heavy rapids surrounded by steep walls. Anything loose or nonfloating will usually be lost.
HM, I'm glad we could finally come to an agreement.
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
I understand what you're saying, I spent a couple of years at Ft. Lewis in Washington. We stayed wet ALOT. Like they say "Washingtonians don't tan, they rust"!
But, because of the frequent rain we always packed lots of fire-fuel (like hexamine tablets) in water-proof bags. A properly packed rucksack will also float, and your clothes inside should stay dry.
Your right about being able to retrieve items from the canoe, BUT, you MUST get out of the freezing cold water as fast as possible. Every second that you stay in the water will bring you closer to hypothermia. The extremely cold water will also sap your strength (along with your body-heat) very quickly. At Ft. Lewis we had to undergo cold-weather-training that included crossing a stream of freezing water. I can tell you that after wading across, in water up to my neck, I was'nt in much shape to start chopping down trees. My hands and arms were so numb I could hardly open a MRE pack to get matches (ever try to strike a match when you can't feel your fingers?). Like I said before, it is a horrible situation no matter what blade you carry.
[This message has been edited by allenC (edited 10-20-2000).]
But, because of the frequent rain we always packed lots of fire-fuel (like hexamine tablets) in water-proof bags. A properly packed rucksack will also float, and your clothes inside should stay dry.
Your right about being able to retrieve items from the canoe, BUT, you MUST get out of the freezing cold water as fast as possible. Every second that you stay in the water will bring you closer to hypothermia. The extremely cold water will also sap your strength (along with your body-heat) very quickly. At Ft. Lewis we had to undergo cold-weather-training that included crossing a stream of freezing water. I can tell you that after wading across, in water up to my neck, I was'nt in much shape to start chopping down trees. My hands and arms were so numb I could hardly open a MRE pack to get matches (ever try to strike a match when you can't feel your fingers?). Like I said before, it is a horrible situation no matter what blade you carry.
[This message has been edited by allenC (edited 10-20-2000).]
Allen I agree wholeheartedly. I've been backpacking in the early spring in places like the Bob Marshall in Montana. The rivers are high and ice cold. You take your life in your own hands fording the streams which can be rushing and nearly chest high. Totally bone chilling water from glacial runoff. Slip once and you might regret it. If you are lucky, you will be able to release yourself from your pack and save your skin. Whether you can save anything else is another question. I nearly drowned once in the Mission Mountains from trying to walk on a log across a rushing stream. I went down over my head but was lucky enough to dig into the log with my fingernails and grab it to pull me to safety. That was in the days when we didn't have quick release buckles. My 60 lb pack would probably have drowned me if I had not glommed on to the log. Fortunately, even though it was spring, the sun was shining and the weather was warm so I dried out quickly.
Nevertheless, if you are going to save your butt under colder conditions, you HAVE to start a fire. And even if you have matches and some dry tinder you are going to need lots of dry wood. And that's not always readily available. Best place for hand picked wood is breaking off dried limbs at the base of conifers. Birch bark is another great source but it's not ubiquitous. Suppose you are in a deciduous forest sans birch full of wet wood. You will probably need to be able to find some standing deadwood and get at the heart of it. And quickly too. Remember, you are soaking wet. If the wind is blowing, you may want to jump back INTO the water as evaporative cooling AND convective winds begin to suck the heat out of your body.
Anyway, as I've said, if we are talking only 1 cutting tool for the wilderness, for me it will be an axe. An axe will do what a small or large knife cannot and you can still use the axe to do cutting tasks besides chopping. My Battle Mistress is cool but I've got a 25 year old Plumb axe that goes wherever I go (except I don't take it backpacking). It doesn't look very glamorous or tactical but it sure is handy. And according to Red Green, that's what it's all about!
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
Nevertheless, if you are going to save your butt under colder conditions, you HAVE to start a fire. And even if you have matches and some dry tinder you are going to need lots of dry wood. And that's not always readily available. Best place for hand picked wood is breaking off dried limbs at the base of conifers. Birch bark is another great source but it's not ubiquitous. Suppose you are in a deciduous forest sans birch full of wet wood. You will probably need to be able to find some standing deadwood and get at the heart of it. And quickly too. Remember, you are soaking wet. If the wind is blowing, you may want to jump back INTO the water as evaporative cooling AND convective winds begin to suck the heat out of your body.
Anyway, as I've said, if we are talking only 1 cutting tool for the wilderness, for me it will be an axe. An axe will do what a small or large knife cannot and you can still use the axe to do cutting tasks besides chopping. My Battle Mistress is cool but I've got a 25 year old Plumb axe that goes wherever I go (except I don't take it backpacking). It doesn't look very glamorous or tactical but it sure is handy. And according to Red Green, that's what it's all about!
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
Don't get me wrong..., I've used a bow saw, a chain saw and an axe most of my life..., mostly for firewood. I've got a nice, pretty, *expensive* GransFors Felling Axe..., razor sharp, nice and big and heavy...., but we weren't talking about a specific survival situation, the person who began this thread specified "primitive living".
Yes, I know some Native Americans built large lodges, and sweat huts, using good sized logs. I've watched Cherokees burning out a dugout canoe, then chipping the charred wood out with stone-tipped tools. The Cherokees used woven cane strips, covered with clay mixed with straw.., for a kind of a stucco hut.., for their housing.
Plus, I live in the SouthEast U.S., so I don't usually have to worry about falling through the ice.
There're usually pine trees around, and you can often find a ball of pitch or, preferably, light'ard wood (that you can kick out of the rotted outer tree), that'll start a fire in a hurry. If not, you can start with the thinnest pieces of wood available or, at worst, whittle a few fuzz sticks from some standing wood.
This is obviously a very arbitrary scenario.., but, personally, I'd still prefer a knife. A knife is something you can have with you all the time (are you gonna carry an axe while gathering wild foods, or hunting?)
As has been noted..., I sure wouldn't want to skin a squirrel with an axe, not to mention whittle a figure-4, or a wooden spoon, or whatever.
But I'd certainly prefer to have both... along with a whole bunch of other stuff
Yes, I know some Native Americans built large lodges, and sweat huts, using good sized logs. I've watched Cherokees burning out a dugout canoe, then chipping the charred wood out with stone-tipped tools. The Cherokees used woven cane strips, covered with clay mixed with straw.., for a kind of a stucco hut.., for their housing.
Plus, I live in the SouthEast U.S., so I don't usually have to worry about falling through the ice.
There're usually pine trees around, and you can often find a ball of pitch or, preferably, light'ard wood (that you can kick out of the rotted outer tree), that'll start a fire in a hurry. If not, you can start with the thinnest pieces of wood available or, at worst, whittle a few fuzz sticks from some standing wood.
This is obviously a very arbitrary scenario.., but, personally, I'd still prefer a knife. A knife is something you can have with you all the time (are you gonna carry an axe while gathering wild foods, or hunting?)
As has been noted..., I sure wouldn't want to skin a squirrel with an axe, not to mention whittle a figure-4, or a wooden spoon, or whatever.
But I'd certainly prefer to have both... along with a whole bunch of other stuff
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2000
- Messages
- 24
Read the book "Hatchet," need I say more?
Actually, I believe Plainsman was primarily interested in survival. If you are familiar with the Plainsman (he has a "survival" board of his own), you likely would agree. However, the Plainsmand is interested in primitive living as well. The book he quotes, Mors Kochanski, is a survival book, not a book on primitive living. The title is, "Bushcraft, Outdoor Skills and Wilderness Survival" However, if we are talking about primitive living, then for sure the axe would be the one tool to have. You can make fine cutting tools from chert or obsidian, but a steel axe is surely superior to primitive choppers.
As for skinning a squirrel, it would be a piece of cake with an axe. If you have ever skinned a squirrel the right way, you would know what I'm talking about. You only make one incision which is right at the base of the tail. Piece of cake. And cleaning rabbits is even easier. However, if you were planning on eating mice, that's another story. And a large coon I suppose, might be more of a challenge. But I would rather have the challenge of cleaning a coon with an axe than trying to chop into the heartwood of a tree with a big knife when my life depended on it.
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
Wow... So many people disbelieving the likelihood of such a scenario.
In my infinitely minute canoeing experience, I can say that however important it may be to extract yourself from the H2O as fast as possible, it is of equal importance to salvage what canoe and equipment is left. The canoeing I've done has primarily been solo, and as such, being dumped meant being seperated entirely from my transportation. My solution was to tie a long painter on, coil it, and tie the coil with a slippery hitch to the thwart ahead of me. Thus, when conditions dictated that I and the canoe parted ways, I could grap onto a chunk of rope, and head for shore. From there, I could retrieve my canoe. It also made tying up easy, and kept my painters form getting tangled.
As for the axe, and whether or not one would ever be in the aforementioned scenario, I would note that different tools have evolved in different locations. An axe is a tool suited to decent quantities of large trees. Obviously, a location without trees makes an axe somewhat useless.
Given trees, I would surmise that the location occasionally gets rain, and given occasional rain, I would further surmise occasional long periods of rain. When it has been raining for a long time, the only reliable source for dry wood is the middle of a standing dead tree. The bigger the tree the more likely of having dry wood inside. Should you find yourself in the latter half of a long rain, cold and wet, my guess is that you would prefer an axe to a large bowie to procur that wood. Most of you prepare for the worst, or at least something a bit down from the ideal, and this situation seems to be a very possible situation that is somewhat less than ideal. Should you choose not to carry an axe, then at least have another idea for how you intend on removing the dry wood from the dead tree.
Stryver
In my infinitely minute canoeing experience, I can say that however important it may be to extract yourself from the H2O as fast as possible, it is of equal importance to salvage what canoe and equipment is left. The canoeing I've done has primarily been solo, and as such, being dumped meant being seperated entirely from my transportation. My solution was to tie a long painter on, coil it, and tie the coil with a slippery hitch to the thwart ahead of me. Thus, when conditions dictated that I and the canoe parted ways, I could grap onto a chunk of rope, and head for shore. From there, I could retrieve my canoe. It also made tying up easy, and kept my painters form getting tangled.
As for the axe, and whether or not one would ever be in the aforementioned scenario, I would note that different tools have evolved in different locations. An axe is a tool suited to decent quantities of large trees. Obviously, a location without trees makes an axe somewhat useless.
Given trees, I would surmise that the location occasionally gets rain, and given occasional rain, I would further surmise occasional long periods of rain. When it has been raining for a long time, the only reliable source for dry wood is the middle of a standing dead tree. The bigger the tree the more likely of having dry wood inside. Should you find yourself in the latter half of a long rain, cold and wet, my guess is that you would prefer an axe to a large bowie to procur that wood. Most of you prepare for the worst, or at least something a bit down from the ideal, and this situation seems to be a very possible situation that is somewhat less than ideal. Should you choose not to carry an axe, then at least have another idea for how you intend on removing the dry wood from the dead tree.
Stryver
I can understand the disbelief. Most of the quotes I made are from a bygone era. "Roughing it" with few provisions was more common in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Before that, it was a way of life for many. These people knew what they were talking about because their very lives depended on knowing, and on a regular basis. One of the neatest books I've come across in a long while is "Camping in the Old Style" by David Wescott. Wonderful stuff and greats pics! Just to clear up any misconceptions, I love big knives. They feel great in the hand and are wonderful for chopping green wood 2" or smaller and probably a whole lot safer. They are great to have in camp because I think for chopping the smaller stuff, they are safer to use and you don't have to be as "practiced" as with an axe or hatchet. I've used a heavy machete for years to clear small saplings and brush that would be a pain to do with an axe or hatchet.
Still, a good hatchet or axe in the hand is a thing of beauty. I still remember one winter campout we had when I was a kid in Boy Scouts. The snow was up to our keisters and we were all busy building our star fires which had to be tended throughout the night so we took turns tending the fire. All we had were small jack knives or small fixed blades and also an occassional small hatchet. Our scoutmaster, in contrast, had a beautiful 3/4 hudson bay cruising axe. He used that to cut a several big honking pieces of hardwood from a dead tree and once he got his fire burning, it burned steadily all through the night (actually nights), without tending. Needless to say our strategy failed when one of our dipstick "firewatchers" fell asleep. I woke early in the morning, stiff as a board.
That was the same campout we were playing capture the flag, and one of our gang took a short cut across a spring fed creek and broke through the ice and was soaked up the the waist. The ambient temp was probably 10 degrees F. We stripped him down, stuck him in a sleeping bag, and dried his clothes in front of the fire. Imagine if he had been out there alone.
And I can also understand why some might prefer a big knife in a warmer and drier climate. The big axe probably wouldn't be as essential as it might be in the north country.
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
Still, a good hatchet or axe in the hand is a thing of beauty. I still remember one winter campout we had when I was a kid in Boy Scouts. The snow was up to our keisters and we were all busy building our star fires which had to be tended throughout the night so we took turns tending the fire. All we had were small jack knives or small fixed blades and also an occassional small hatchet. Our scoutmaster, in contrast, had a beautiful 3/4 hudson bay cruising axe. He used that to cut a several big honking pieces of hardwood from a dead tree and once he got his fire burning, it burned steadily all through the night (actually nights), without tending. Needless to say our strategy failed when one of our dipstick "firewatchers" fell asleep. I woke early in the morning, stiff as a board.
That was the same campout we were playing capture the flag, and one of our gang took a short cut across a spring fed creek and broke through the ice and was soaked up the the waist. The ambient temp was probably 10 degrees F. We stripped him down, stuck him in a sleeping bag, and dried his clothes in front of the fire. Imagine if he had been out there alone.
And I can also understand why some might prefer a big knife in a warmer and drier climate. The big axe probably wouldn't be as essential as it might be in the north country.
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
I'm impressed with all the tales from the frozen north! In Florida freezing is something you almost never worry about. If you had to have only one tool to survive in the Florida woods, I would pick a machete. The problem in our woods isn't so much one of making a shelter or a fire but of making any headway in one direction for any lengh of time. Game trails are numerous, all heading in the wrong direction. To get where you want to go you have to chop your way through palmetto bushes, scrub oak, vines and saplings. A machete will do the trick for any thing except chopping down thick trees.
P.S. With palmettos around an emergency shelter takes only a few minutes
P.S. With palmettos around an emergency shelter takes only a few minutes
Hello All,
This may be slightly off topic, but here goes anyway
.
When they found the frozen mummy of the "Iceman" on the Italian/Austrian border in Europe a number of tools and artifacts were also found.
The only metal tool found was a copper axe, all other tools were of stone or vegetable matter, the dead Iceman's knife was of stone (flint) and was very small in size.
This in my mind shows that the axe was regarded very highly as a survival tool from an early period in Man's history.
Just thought I'd pass this on
.
Regards to All.
This may be slightly off topic, but here goes anyway
When they found the frozen mummy of the "Iceman" on the Italian/Austrian border in Europe a number of tools and artifacts were also found.
The only metal tool found was a copper axe, all other tools were of stone or vegetable matter, the dead Iceman's knife was of stone (flint) and was very small in size.
This in my mind shows that the axe was regarded very highly as a survival tool from an early period in Man's history.
Just thought I'd pass this on
Regards to All.