Probably asked before cannot find it, tempering 440c steel in home oven.

bladsmth said:
Slow down. You said it took an entire Saturday to make the blade...that is fast. It may take some forks a week to file the bevels ( I may take Tryppr a month or two :) ).
Click to expand...

Yes, that's true. Don't worry about investing one Saturday and losing it. It isn't lost. You gained experience and knowledge. The blade may be ruined, but if this is the only blade you ever ruin you should count yourself a prodigy. I've ruined several after much more than one day's work.

- Greg
 
Greg, thank you for your reply.
And I understand, but you probably know since at some point you
Started as well...that once you start you want to make the best knife
In the world...haha
But I can take my loss, an pick back up and work on my next project "the Roman".
That will be a hard knife to make I think, because I have to
Create a bevel on 4 sides...but we will see.
Any advise on that much appreciated.

One other thing on a side note, if I am going to make
That oven I need it to work on 110V & 220V...
 
Working on 4 sides (daggers) with files was, for me at least, not that hard and a lot of fun. I hope it is the same for you.

- Greg
 
So, what do you guys think of the design of "The Roman" ?
Suggestions?
Would you use a 550 cord for a handle as well? Or make one from G10 or Micarta?
And how to start? How to put a even bevel on it with a jig?
With what grit do you guys finish the steel before you heat treat it?
And when the steel comes back from HT, do you still have to temper it?
Or is that done as well with the HT process?

Advise and tips would much appreciated.
 
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I will offer my personal impressions, but these are your knives, so make them as you wish. My comments are mainly on the design features and ergonomics.

First, I think naming knives for anything but commercial mass production is a bit silly. Others may disagree, but it just seems a bit odd to me.

The top knife has several issues. One is the sharp angle of the tang/blade junction. That is a stress riser waiting to snap. The same junction places two pointed tips right at your hand...where they will poke you if the knife is used in a stabbing manner. The "T" handle top looks uncomfortable, too. I guess paracord would work, but as you can see from the photo and from holding it , it should have a tang much wider and differently shaped..........the problem is that you already cut the blade out. Can't offer much of any way to save this one as-is. What would work is grinding off the "T" top and making the "V" shoulders straight across. That way you could re-shape the tang into a hidden tang and add an small oval guard. With a stacked leather handle and a metal butt cap to match the guard, it could look rather nice.

The other two are better. Blade shape is OK. Handles need a little adjustment and they should be good.The bottom of the handle on both needs to be smoothed out or it will eat you hand ( sharp projections don't work well). The top of the handles needs a little drop. You can still do these adjustments in the blanks you cut.
 
bladsmth said:
I will offer my personal impressions, but these are your knives, so make them as you wish. My comments are mainly on the design features and ergonomics.

First, I think naming knives for anything but commercial mass production is a bit silly. Others may disagree, but it just seems a bit odd to me.

The top knife has several issues. One is the sharp angle of the tang/blade junction. That is a stress riser waiting to snap. The same junction places two pointed tips right at your hand...where they will poke you if the knife is used in a stabbing manner. The "T" handle top looks uncomfortable, too. I guess paracord would work, but as you can see from the photo and from holding it , it should have a tang much wider and differently shaped..........the problem is that you already cut the blade out. Can't offer much of any way to save this one as-is. What would work is grinding off the "T" top and making the "V" shoulders straight across. That way you could re-shape the tang into a hidden tang and add an small oval guard. With a stacked leather handle and a metal butt cap to match the guard, it could look rather nice.

The other two are better. Blade shape is OK. Handles need a little adjustment and they should be good.The bottom of the handle on both needs to be smoothed out or it will eat you hand ( sharp projections don't work well). The top of the handles needs a little drop. You can still do these adjustments in the blanks you cut.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bladsmth,
these are al valid points I totally agree the 2 pointed tips need to change, and would agree as well on the handle that it is to slim.
i think if i make it wider to the middle and than smaller again as it gets back to the end it will be better to hold in your hand.
The T at the end can change but i don't exactly know how or what to do with it.

The knives you see are cut out of 3mm aluminum, so not from the steel that is going to end up as an genuine knife.
so i can change it anyway i want too, they are just moulds.

i thought that old Roman knives had cord on the handles, at least in my mind that is.

the reason why I give my knives names is not for commercial reasons, i really do this as and for my hobby.
but so people can reference to them instead of trying to describe them.
makes sense for me.

what do you mean with the other to blades are OK...?
OK,... is saying .." not to bad , but can be way better"
so what are your recommendations?
I personally like thick (short) blades, they expres strength and endurance/ stamina.
but if you think they can be better, please let me know.
the shapes of the handles or tang since i held them in my hands feel comfortable at least on the moulds.
so i guess that is a matter of opinion, maybe after using them (if I ever get one done correct) i will find out you where right.
Again this is not being ignorant:)

And indeed maybe leather is a good option for the handle as well, but than you got to think about keeping the leather in good shape.
but i like that idea.
coming weekend i will start on this project, and of course i will have to make some changes first.

thanks and Semper Fi.
Barry.
 
By OK, I meant they seem fine. They will work as shown without any changes.

Like I said, make the knives as you want, but if you ask any maker who has made a lot of knives, you will get the same answer about the handles - any pointed places in the finger area will be hot spots. Adding a little drop to the butt will take the hot spot off the top corner of the handle.

As far as stacked leather handles, the USMC standard knife for over 50 years was made that way. It is extremely tough and durable, as well as having a firm and comfortable grip. It is called the USMC Kabar. Nordic knives have been made this way for centuries, with many old ones still in use.
Here are some ideas:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...ge&fr=mcafee&sz=all&va=stacked+leather+handle
 
You and I share a few things in common, Barry. Like you, I am just a hobbyist. Like you, I named my first few knives (e.g. "Leaf Knife" and "Caduceus Knife"). I had some crazy designs I just had to get out of my system before I could start to produce more "normal" knives that were in line with what others were recommending and doing.

Some shapes make a knife look better. Some shapes make a knife work better. Some shapes manage to do both. Finding out which shapes fit into each of the categories is part of the fun of the experimental phase of the hobby.

At some point I began to narrow in on the things that make a knife work better. When Stacy talks about "stress risers", I pay attention... not because I think any pf my knives will ever actually be stressed to the point of breaking, but because I want to make them more functional, even if it means I have to trade off a style point or two.

With regard to your designs, I'll echo the advice that you use your aluminum prototypes toe find the hot spots in the handles. These are the areas that, given sufficient use, would rub a blister into the hand. Clearly not what you want your knives to be known for. If you have to trade off a style point to eliminate blisters, that's a good trade.

- Greg
 
You still have sharp angles (stress risers) where the handle meets the blade. Also, the handle appears too wide and bulky. You can, of course, make it any way you like. I'm just saying it doesn't appear well balanced or proportional.
 
I think you could refine that design much more
It's like a painter that must study the masters

Find my standard reply for new knifemakers v33

I've got links to hundreds of design photos.

Look in the gallery too, best in the world post here.
 
Thanks Greg & 1 till 10.
The Sharp edges will be gone.
I just quickly tried something out, busy at work not much time so
I Will redesign the blade coming weekend.
Thanks fella's.

I won't hurry into it.
1 till 10 i got like 800 various designs.
I already got them from you, Thanks.

Semper Fi.
 
Now that you have reached 20 posts we can make you an official member of the gang by giving you the club secret, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 is "The Count"

On the new drawing, it would work better if the transition from the tang to the shoulders was a curve. Place a 1/4" round object in the right angle you now have and draw the proper curve. Additionally, filing the points of the shoulder to a small 45° angle will take the hand unfriendliness away. You want a ricasso of at least 1/2" on that blade, too.

What I would suggest beyond the needed change in the transition and corners is to take 1/8" off the entire perimeter of the handle and make it a paracord wrap handle ( the cord will replace the 1/4" width of steel you removed). Drill a 3/16" hole near the shoulders and a 3/8" hole near the butt. Round the edges all the way around the handle when sanding so they are smooth. Start with a turk's head at the shoulders, and wrap with a nice looking paracord knotting/braid of your choice to the butt, using the 3/8" hole to tie it off in.

Tip,
You can make curved "scales" that are glued in place on the tang and paracord wrapped over to give the handle more shape and less flatness. Neoprene is great for this, as it also grips the cord tightly. Most knife suppliers sell 1/4" firm neoprene sheets that can be epoxied on the tang (G-flex is great for this) and shaped with sandpaper and files. It is pretty ugly stuff by itself, but as an underlayment for a wrapped handle it is super. I have a tacti-zashi project that I will use this as the tsuka material under the ito.


Another good way to go on that dagger shape would be a hidden tang with a small guard. This will eliminate the problem of the hand slipping and the sharp corners. Even on a hidden tang, you still always want the transition from tang to shoulder to be a curve.
 
Thanks Count (the);),

I quickly read your advise and they all sound pretty legit, so Friday or Saturday before I start I will read your advise again and try to implement that into my design.
Is there a email that I can send my design too, so that I can email it to you and you can roughly draw in your advise??
Same for Greg I will send you if that is ok with the both of you, my design.
A picture says more than words....

If you guys don't want to...no problem I will figure it out myself.

Hope to hear from you guys, and once again I really appreciate your guys help.

Barry out.
Semper Fi.
 
Barryblade said:
Thanks Count (the);),

I quickly read your advise and they all sound pretty legit, so Friday or Saturday before I start I will read your advise again and try to implement that into my design.
Is there a email that I can send my design too, so that I can email it to you and you can roughly draw in your advise??
Same for Greg I will send you if that is ok with the both of you, my design.
A picture says more than words....

If you guys don't want to...no problem I will figure it out myself.

Hope to hear from you guys, and once again I really appreciate your guys help.

Barry out.
Semper Fi.
Click to expand...

Just post it up here and you get hundreds of talented eyes looking at it, all with different perspectives.

I'm not one of the masters
 
That is starting to look like something workable, certainly opens the door for a cool brass or stainless bolster, or maybe copper

pointy tip... that should aid in the easy insertion into a foreign object ;0)
 
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