Professional Courtesy

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Some examples:

I contacted Lin Rhea and ASKED if he minded if I tried to make one of his X-Rhea knives ("tried" being the operative word). He was very gracious and said "have at it". And in fact, he travels to different hammer-ins teaching how to make that knife. It is a lot harder than it looks. But asking is good etiquette.

Many of us make raised clip or harpoon type bowies. How many give credit to Jason Knight? We have taken the idea and blended it into our own styles. I think that is ok, although credit should be given more often to Jason. When I used multiple handle pins next to each other on some of my kitchen knives I gave credit for the idea to Ryan Weeks.

Now, if a customer wanted me to make a folder (if I made folders) with an AXIS lock, that would be no bueno. Aside from the fact that the device is copyrighted and the company has enough resources to make you cease and desist, It is simply that the feature is identifiable to Benchmade.

If you have to think too hard about it, just turn the job down.
 
i4Marc said:
Some examples:

I contacted Lin Rhea and ASKED if he minded if I tried to make one of his X-Rhea knives ("tried" being the operative word). He was very gracious and said "have at it". And in fact, he travels to different hammer-ins teaching how to make that knife. It is a lot harder than it looks. But asking is good etiquette.

Many of us make raised clip or harpoon type bowies. How many give credit to Jason Knight? We have taken the idea and blended it into our own styles. I think that is ok, although credit should be given more often to Jason. When I used multiple handle pins next to each other on some of my kitchen knives I gave credit for the idea to Ryan Weeks.

Now, if a customer wanted me to make a folder (if I made folders) with an AXIS lock, that would be no bueno. Aside from the fact that the device is copyrighted and the company has enough resources to make you cease and desist, It is simply that the feature is identifiable to Benchmade.

If you have to think too hard about it, just turn the job down.
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Patent on Axis lock has expired. You’d be completely free to use the locking mechanism. Just don’t call it Axis lock
 
I almost guarantee that your knife will be somewhat different than the one your copying. Customers come to me quite often with a picture of what they want, but they understand that it will end up being my version when the project is complete.
 
i have had several customers ask me to almost "Duplicate" other makers work "Mostly a "Recurve Tanto" (Made very Popular by Maricio Dobruski)
i told them only if he grants me his "Permission / Blessing " he did so i make them sometimes.
there is another maker using "Lum Style Tanto" a lot.. Bob Lum was a Friend of mine and many others , when asked "Publically" he said he had "Permission" but he was not even Making knifes before Bob passed.. i spoke to Bobs widow in person, she has NEVER had anyone ask to use the design... this guy flat LIES about it as he became a maker 2-3 years after Bob died..
She gave Me and Bill Tuch permission to use it with her blessing ..
some "Shitty guys " out there willing to do anything for a buck...... Your Integrity as a maker matters if you come up with something "Different" that sets it apart from others would you not at least like to be ASKED?? walk a mile in their shoes kind of thing..
 
How many ways can you grind a blade? IMHO eventually every blade will look like someone else's blade. Mankind has been making blades for how many centuries?
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
You have some great designs.

But this whole attitude is ridiculous. You do realize that if our knife founding fathers had this attitude we wouldn’t have so many great knives today.

Centofante, Clay, Lake, Reeve…these guys gave their information and knowledge for free. Some even had books with tutorials on how to make some of their key designs without any strings attached.

The new “knifemakers attitude” bugs me these days. Is a knifemaker nervous that someone else can make their design better than they can?

If someone asked me if they could make one of my designs, I would be thrilled. Just reference me in the name :ie Loveless design.

Too much ME, ME, ME attitude these days. It’s beginning to not feel like knifemakers are friends and passionate. Just all about the dollar.

However, some very distinct characteristics should not be copied, and that would be up to the original designer/maker.

What would our knife world look like if Chris patented the RIL?
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look, you don't have to say that my attitude is ridiculous to get your point across. I certainly wouldn't characterize your attitude about anything in a demeaning way.

Plus, you got it twisted; I said that if another knife maker has been asked to copy one of my knives/designs for a client- I don't want to hear about it! I don't want to be asked for permission or involved in any way in their business dealings because it's none of my business. If someone wants to make a living copying other people's work- fill your boots! I'm not going to come after you for it if you do it to me, I don't care. I don't have any patents. If I see it afterward, sure I might say something and I might think poorly of that person but whatever. It's a done deal and they did what they felt like they had to do.

All I know is what I will do, and that is to develop my designs. There are plenty of giants whose shoulders we all stand on for inspiration and I'm not saying we don't borrow ideas from each other, that's how things work. We're all spinning on what we've been exposed to and what came before- my goal is to develop my own take on knives. If my work is good enough that someone else wants to copy I'll consider that a win. When I see echoes of my work in another maker's work, I'm proud of that and don't need additional credit.

One guy I worked with quite a lot was asked to design a piece, and couldn't get away from some of the general lines that I developed for him to use previously. Totally different design, but with some similarities. He asked if it was ok, and even sent me one for free. TOTALLY UNNECESSARY! I appreciated it because we know each other and worked with each other in the past, which is fine. Very different from someone I don't know cold calling me asking to replicate a knife that I made/designed so they can sell it. I don't care, don't waste my time- do your thing.

That story about Bob Lum is sad- anyone who thinks lying about their work gives them more credibility is a dumbass who will eventually meet with some form of reckoning.

A lot of posts here are conflating 'features' with overall design. Incorporating features that someone else is known for is fair game in my book. If you can make a feature work, and aren't just incorporating it because it looks cool or like someone else's shit, then my opinion is you've done an honest job of designing a knife and you own it.
 
Lorien said:
look, you don't have to say that my attitude is ridiculous to get your point across. I certainly wouldn't characterize your attitude about anything in a demeaning way.

Plus, you got it twisted; I said that if another knife maker has been asked to copy one of my knives/designs for a client- I don't want to hear about it! I don't want to be asked for permission or involved in any way in their business dealings because it's none of my business. If someone wants to make a living copying other people's work- fill your boots! I'm not going to come after you for it if you do it to me, I don't care. I don't have any patents. If I see it afterward, sure I might say something and I might think poorly of that person but whatever. It's a done deal and they did what they felt like they had to do.

All I know is what I will do, and that is to develop my designs. There are plenty of giants whose shoulders we all stand on for inspiration and I'm not saying we don't borrow ideas from each other, that's how things work. We're all spinning on what we've been exposed to and what came before- my goal is to develop my own take on knives. If my work is good enough that someone else wants to copy I'll consider that a win. When I see echoes of my work in another maker's work, I'm proud of that and don't need additional credit.

One guy I worked with quite a lot was asked to design a piece, and couldn't get away from some of the general lines that I developed for him to use previously. Totally different design, but with some similarities. He asked if it was ok, and even sent me one for free. TOTALLY UNNECESSARY! I appreciated it because we know each other and worked with each other in the past, which is fine. Very different from someone I don't know cold calling me asking to replicate a knife that I made/designed so they can sell it. I don't care, don't waste my time- do your thing.

That story about Bob Lum is sad- anyone who thinks lying about their work gives them more credibility is a dumbass who will eventually meet with some form of reckoning.

A lot of posts here are conflating 'features' with overall design. Incorporating features that someone else is known for is fair game in my book. If you can make a feature work, and aren't just incorporating it because it looks cool or like someone else's shit, then my opinion is you've done an honest job of designing a knife and you own it.
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I misunderstood your post I quoted earlier. I apologize.

I will leave my blunder.

Thank you for the clarity, I agree with what you have said.
 
I make small knives with a lanyard loop at the end.
I thought I made something quite unique. Then somebody showed me a pic of a knife out of the 7th century AD with a simular feature.
In the end a knife is a a sharp edge sticking out of a handle.

IMG-20210116-161841.jpg
 
I think the wise thing to do would be to ask the original maker if you can have permission to copy his design. I make mostly Scagel style knives with my own design, and I also make quite a few Randall replicas as well. And I did ask Randall Knives if I could copy some of their knife patterns, and they said, as long as I use my own trade mark there shouldn't be a problem. I know this is not the same thing but I have had people on face book actually down load photos of my knives and post them for sale as if they made them, and that was something I wasn't too happy about. So if someone wants to copy my knives I think I would like to be asked first.
 
Hengelo_77 said:
I make small knives with a lanyard loop at the end.
I thought I made something quite unique. Then somebody showed me a pic of a knife out of the 7th century AD with a simular feature.
In the end a knife is a a sharp edge sticking out of a handle.

IMG-20210116-161841.jpg
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Then you are a forger , my friend 😉 And you give mi permission to make knife like that ?? How you dare ! Now ,make time machine , go back in 7th century AD, find the guy who first make knife like that , say hello from all of us , apologize to him for copying his design then ASK for permission .................... 🤣
And record it all, otherwise no one here will believe you !
 
I'm not a maker but this doesn't seem to complicated to me. If maker "A" has a recognizable style, such that if you made the requested knife an average knife nut would look at it and think "oh that's a Maker A knife," then you should either not make it, or get permission from Maker A in advance and give them design credit when posting pics. When a maker has a distinct style that's part of the inherent value of their work and deserves respect.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
I misunderstood your post I quoted earlier. I apologize.

I will leave my blunder.

Thank you for the clarity, I agree with what you have said.
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thank you- it's all good

I mentioned the concept of incorporating features that someone else might be known for into your own work, and that that's not the same as copying a design/knife. It also seems to me that construction methods fall under the same category.

If someone makes a knife a certain way, and they share the steps they take, then copying those steps is fair game. It's also not the same as copying a knife/design.

Lin Rhea's method of forging the whole knife from one piece of steel is something he's shared openly. Just because a knife is made using the exact same method he's developed and shared, doesn't necessarily mean it will be a copy of his design.

However, I would expect that many people who learn his method end up with a knife that looks VERY similar to his. It's been said before, but mimicry is how people learn. It's really hard to design a knife if you don't know how it's made, so taking the design part out of the equation during the education process will speed up the student's foundational understanding of how to actually do this thing. Putting your individuality into it comes later, once the methods become second nature.

If I were to be forging blades, (and I aim to be at some point in the near future) and a patron were to ask for an X Rhea knife, I imagine that I would first learn Lin's method enough to be comfortable with it and that would include more or less copying his design. I'd keep that knife to test/use/learn from, and then I would make a knife of my own design, using the method I learned from Lin. I wouldn't bother Lin with asking permission, but I certainly would credit him with developing the method I used.

Recognition and accreditation are GOOD THINGS, and we humans could do with more of that, generally speaking. Imo.
 
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Natlek said:
You can make copies of the Mona Lisa as much as you want, without Leonardo's signature they are worth as much as the canvases on which they are painted 🤣
I will copy every knife I like ,since it is also copies of someone else ......... copies are copies of someone else copies....go back in time as much as you want.
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That's what you gotta remember that it could possibly be a copy of somebody else's work. I could give a crap if someone copied my work to every detail but at the end of the day it isn't mine. What has my name on it is what matters to me. In fact, in a way I would be humbled if someone tried to copy an blade I made and I would like to see how someone else would do it. Unless someone claims my work is theirs that's when we have a problem but, I do understand that not everyone feels this way and I understand why. I see this controversy in several different views.
 
Diego_B said:
That's what you gotta remember that it could possibly be a copy of somebody else's work. I could give a crap if someone copied my work to every detail but at the end of the day it isn't mine. What has my name on it is what matters to me. In fact, in a way I would be humbled if someone tried to copy an blade I made and I would like to see how someone else would do it. Unless someone claims my work is theirs that's when we have a problem but, I do understand that not everyone feels this way and I understand why. I see this controversy in several different views.
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A lot of the people probably love the design of a knife and just want it in a different steel than what the original maker uses. Maybe that's part of it?
 
I think this whole culture is really dumb in the end. A few of my clients, mostly younger makers who ahve been making great stuff on instagram, in their comments are people, sometimes even well known "Cool guy" makers saying "Ummm, it looks like you took inspiration from ______. You should really shout him out"

I think 90% of this is the commoditization of influence on social media. You can make a profitable business with a big following and being an influencer, so many makers will try to enforce some time of hierarchy, that you have to kick up some sweet sweet attention to them. I think it is the dumbest thing.

Knives are the oldest tools on earth, and are quite possibly one of the most produced items across the entirety of human history. The idea that one guy has any claim to a specific shape of blade or swoop of a handle or anything like that is absurd. Dont write someone elses name on your work and try to pass it off as something else, beyond that make whatever you want. Nothing in this field is original, we are all just making sharp bits of metal glued to wood.
 
"The idea that one guy has any claim to a specific shape of blade or swoop of a handle or anything like that is absurd. Don't write someone elses name on your work and try to pass it off as something else, beyond that make whatever you want. Nothing in this field is original, we are all just making sharp bits of metal glued to wood."

This!!
 
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