Promoting knives to art collectors

[Kevin Jones]

Kevin, I do plan on joining y'all soon. As far as marketing, I'm far from a marketing person and my knives are far from art, heck I barely consider them knives at time

My "marketing" experience comes from my last job in the Army... Public Affairs :barf: I can shuck, jive and tap dance with the best of them at a dog an pony show.

I find it hard to believe art collectors aren't aware of makers such as Loerchner, Rusnak, Fogg, Tuch and Tai Goo, not to leave anyone out but these makers kind of epitomize what I love about flow and materials. If they (art collectors) aren't aware of knives as art who is to blame? The makers and by extension the purveyors and dealers. Obviously it would be hard for a single maker to put on a show at a gallery but perhaps the CKCA could gather a collection of the best representation of "knives as art" and arrange a showing at some galleries across the country. I imagine a few gallery shows in New York, DC, Miami, Atlanta, LA, Dallas and Chicago would go far to educate and expose the art collectors to our passion. I envision a gallery showing, with video of the knifemaking processes going and the knives with selected makers on hand to talk to the patrons.

Ah well... got to spend quality time with my wife.

I agree Will. There's a lot of opportunities it just takes a motivated group to pull it off.
Here's an example of Gustavo Vilar's, a very talented Brazilian maker's, museum showing. Very similar to what you are suggesting.

http://www.customknifecollectorsassociation.com/forumsv3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=377

 

[T.A.DAVISON]

That's one of our primary goals Will. If anyone wants to be part of it, it's as easy as going to our website.

I think the INTERNET will be the very best tool, to draw in more collectors as time goes on.

There are huge numbers there, if WE can just figure out how to get them interested in collecting knives?

The baby boomer's are just now getting ready to retire, and there is a lot of them.

How do you get their interest?

Some will be bored and maybe looking for a new Hobie? ( Some may want to try to make knives, and some will actually do it.)
Or just a club of sort to join so they do not set at home bored?
Some maybe looking for a better investment idea? ( The art knife idea - better value and some thing that will hold it's value, or increase in value? )
Some may just want to rekindle something from their past - childhood days? ( being a Boy Scout - or Dad's or Grand dad's knife memory? )

So how are some of the ways to get their interest????

1. Get them to attend a knife show.

2. Get them to join a knife group.

3. Get them to join a knife forums.

And WE can do those three things, through more exposer in different places on the INTERNET.

There is more than one way to skin a cat-------

Just my thoughts.


Todd



.

 

[Will Leavitt]

Thanks Kevin, that's EXACTLY what I envisioned 'cept a lot of people with checkbooks in line. I not sure but pretty sure that those people aren't going to be willing to wait 7 years for a knife.

Well I'll do what I can to help y'all cept I don't make art knives and am hobbled by an Alabama publik edukashun.

Todd, a few things from the people I know...... they don't browse the internet looking for art, unless it's a specific artist. They are NOT going to go to a knife show right off the bat, they'd probably associate something like a knife show with the typical Gun and Knife show, it's a place where most of them wouldn't feel comfortable. Get a few people comfortable with the gallery art shows and get them hooked theeennnn get them coming to shows.

 

[T.A.DAVISON]

Thanks Kevin, that's EXACTLY what I envisioned 'cept a lot of people with checkbooks in line. I not sure but pretty sure that those people aren't going to be willing to wait 7 years for a knife.

Well I'll do what I can to help y'all cept I don't make art knives and am hobbled by an Alabama publik edukashun.

Todd, a few things from the people I know...... they don't browse the internet looking for art, unless it's a specific artist. They are NOT going to go to a knife show right off the bat, they'd probably associate something like a knife show with the typical Gun and Knife show, it's a place where most of them wouldn't feel comfortable. Get a few people comfortable with the gallery art shows and get them hooked theeennnn get them coming to shows.

I heard on the tube the other day, that there are about 1,100 billionaires on earth right now?
And a few years back, I heard that the US ( had ) something like? 8.6 million estates worth at least a million dollars?
So what I'm saying is to look at the numbers???
I do not think you have to be a millionaire to collect knives?
There are a lot of GUY - GUYS out there, and I tell ya what.
I came to this forum pretty much a no body - and pretty much still is.
But I can tell you I have started a few GUYS collecting custom knives myself , with just a few half a$$ photos of some pretty good knives.
I think we could go a long ways with the net as a whole knife group.

Something that would really help, would be one the organizations, to do some larger exposer. Such as a TV documentary on collecting and or making knives.
I see the interest there is THAT THEY ARE THE WORLDS OLDEST TOOL.
And any GUY - GUY would get a kick start there? maybe? I would think?
IF IT WAS DONE RIGHT?

( I'm not saying screw the pansies, snobbish type collectors, the ones with all the $$$$$ in the world.
I'm just saying I think with the net, there is a lot of fish to be had?? )

Just my thoughts.

Todd

 

[Lorien]

there's gotta be someone out there who wants to make Obama a knife.
Knives have to become bipartisan for the liberal, educated elite to buy in.

 

[Orcrist]

Art is subjective, by both the observer and the creator; as such, much fades into obscurity. That which survives does so because it is inimitable, it is innovative and/or it is aesthetically pleasing, appealing to our sense of beauty. One can posses all of the technical skills to reproduce a piece in the manner of Da Vinci, but lack the imagination to create an original. Likewise, a knifemaker can posses all of the technical skills to reproduce a knife in the manner of Loveless, but lack the lack the imagination to create an original design. Loveless’ is a design innovator with the technical prowess of Da Vinci. Virgil England’s work is beyond innovation and is inimitable. Like Salvador Dali, England’s work enters into the realm of surreal. Bailey Bradshaw recently posted an absolutely beautiful sub-hilt fighter. It is aesthetically pleasing yet provocative. Tim Hancock and Larry Fuegen are makers who set standards in design, “on purity of line and form, on composition and balance in materials.”

Art is what it is. Artists, “makers,” cannot change what they are doing to appeal to “art collectors” in so doing they cease to be artists.

 

[ddd]

What I tried to do with my books on modern custom knives was
and is to attract more potentially serious art collectors to this art form.

According to reports from many knife dealers and knife-show promoters
these books have brought quite a few new collectors as well as educated
more that quite a few by exhibiting to them something no museum has
yet taken seriously. Many, many don't even know that modern knife art
as it created today even exists!!

Lorien, how about presenting Obama with my books? Won't that give him
a true perspective about modern custom knives as an ART FORM?

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)

 

[severedthumbs]

why should we be concerned if snooty art collectors want to collect knives or not? it seems like it has done good enough without them. i dont think anyone should go out of their way to draw these people in.

 

[Win Heger]

I was always interested in knives but my entry into customs began at an art show! At the time, 1988, I was playing at being an art broker and went to the Southeastern Wildlife Expo in Charleston. In one of the venues there were custom knife makers set up. It was there that I bought my first custom, from Sam Cox.

I also met an artist named Terry Miller and found out that he was represented by a gallery in Branson, MO, the Hawthorne Gallery. I spoke with the owner, Steve D'lack, and found out he promoted the ECCKS. It's been a great journey since then.

I did promote custom knives thru a gallery in a wealthy NJ community but without much success. I had much better success consigning knives to a fly fishing shop in a Griffin and Howe (custom guns) location.

I've always thought that custom knives fit in well with Wildlife Art and custom guns. I just don't believe the modern art community is ready for this
art form.

As a side note, I have found jewelers to be very interested in custom knives.

Win

 

[ddd]

...........
As a side note, I have found jewelers to be very interested in custom knives.

Win

Win,

This is very true as I have received emails from jewelers
in Europe and the USA who wrote that they found the
embellishments on knife art displayed in my books very inspirational....

Here in Israel, I know for a fact that several jewelry teachers
and high end makers of jewelry have purchased every one of them....

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)

 

[2knife]

why should we be concerned if snooty art collectors want to collect knives or not? it seems like it has done good enough without them. i dont think anyone should go out of their way to draw these people in.

Haha. I agree! Why make "art" the philosophy of the modern custom knife anyway. You are putting a dress on a pig. We don't need it!
David

 

[Will Leavitt]

Haha. I agree! Why make "art" the philosophy of the modern custom knife anyway. You are putting a dress on a pig. We don't need it!
David

Ahhh I'm wounded!!! MEDIC!!! MEDIC!!!! granted I don't make knives that qualify as art but believe it or not as knifemakers progress in the path, we usually try to make our knives a better overall package carefully choosing materials and design to compliment each other.

Given 2 makers, all things being equal but one maker's knife has a flow to it and some really sexy curves and his choices of finish like a nice hot blued guard; which knife are you going to choose? They'd both function the same but one appeals to you more. One knife is more artistic than the other....

I dunno, I love making knives AND I consider it a form of art. I will point again to the pottery example, it's just a lump of clay that with careful work from an artisan can become a beautiful piece of art in the form of a jar.

Well I'm off to dress some more pigs

 

[Lorien]

Orcrist- your post was excellent.

David- I think you should arrange to have a package of your books somehow get to the president elect. Your books will probably have a larger net effect on the custom knife industry than the knives themselves.

As for drawing art in towards knives; well art is drawn into all directions and usually not because somebody wanted it that way, or tried to manipulate events. That art is curiously being drawn, yet again, back to the knife, is a synergistic relationship that we are all a part of. For any one of us to think that we are going to 'change the future', displays arrogance and a limited world view. Orcrist really said it the best, and I'll let the ideas he presented take over from here.

Art is subjective, by both the observer and the creator; as such, much fades into obscurity. That which survives does so because it is inimitable, it is innovative and/or it is aesthetically pleasing, appealing to our sense of beauty. One can posses all of the technical skills to reproduce a piece in the manner of Da Vinci, but lack the imagination to create an original. Likewise, a knifemaker can posses all of the technical skills to reproduce a knife in the manner of Loveless, but lack the lack the imagination to create an original design. Loveless’ is a design innovator with the technical prowess of Da Vinci. Virgil England’s work is beyond innovation and is inimitable. Like Salvador Dali, England’s work enters into the realm of surreal. Bailey Bradshaw recently posted an absolutely beautiful sub-hilt fighter. It is aesthetically pleasing yet provocative. Tim Hancock and Larry Fuegen are makers who set standards in design, “on purity of line and form, on composition and balance in materials.”

Art is what it is. Artists, “makers,” cannot change what they are doing to appeal to “art collectors” in so doing they cease to be artists.

 

[jdm61]

I think that this is a good thing. My one comment is that many in the "art world" might consider some of the pieces that we call "art knives" to be garish and overwrought. If you look at the collection of applied arts objects at a place like MOMA, you will primarily see very functional items that just happen to hit the ball out of the park in the design area. For example, you are much more likely to see a Ferrari or Cistalia (MOMA has one of these) roaster than a uber-expensive custom hot rod. I think that the example of a Loercher knife appealing to the arsty community is a good one......amazing design, tastefully done on a piece that looks like a knife. Ditto for a Fisk, Dean, the Loveless influenced guys, etc.. Flame away

 

[jdm61]

Haha. I agree! Why make "art" the philosophy of the modern custom knife anyway. You are putting a dress on a pig. We don't need it!
David

Because we make what many would consider to be arcahic tools and many of them are no longer used for their intended purpose. They have become "collectibles" so why not try to show them to collectors who are used to spending a LOT more money than the average knife guy. Say, for example, the guy who is willing to spend in excess of $250,000 for a particularly fine example of a sunburst 1959 Gibson Les Paul?

 

[Kevin Jones]

why should we be concerned if snooty art collectors want to collect knives or not? it seems like it has done good enough without them. i dont think anyone should go out of their way to draw these people in.

Haha. I agree! Why make "art" the philosophy of the modern custom knife anyway. You are putting a dress on a pig. We don't need it!
David

Why do you two's opinion not surprise me?

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Art is subjective, by both the observer and the creator; as such, much fades into obscurity. That which survives does so because it is inimitable, it is innovative and/or it is aesthetically pleasing, appealing to our sense of beauty. One can posses all of the technical skills to reproduce a piece in the manner of Da Vinci, but lack the imagination to create an original. Likewise, a knifemaker can posses all of the technical skills to reproduce a knife in the manner of Loveless, but lack the lack the imagination to create an original design. Loveless’ is a design innovator with the technical prowess of Da Vinci. Virgil England’s work is beyond innovation and is inimitable. Like Salvador Dali, England’s work enters into the realm of surreal. Bailey Bradshaw recently posted an absolutely beautiful sub-hilt fighter. It is aesthetically pleasing yet provocative. Tim Hancock and Larry Fuegen are makers who set standards in design, “on purity of line and form, on composition and balance in materials.”

Art is what it is. Artists, “makers,” cannot change what they are doing to appeal to “art collectors” in so doing they cease to be artists.

What an insightful post.

Because we make what many would consider to be arcahic tools and many of them are no longer used for their intended purpose. They have become "collectibles" so why not try to show them to collectors who are used to spending a LOT more money than the average knife guy. Say, for example, the guy who is willing to spend in excess of $250,000 for a particularly fine example of a sunburst 1959 Gibson Les Paul?

What does everyone think will be the result of attracting art collectors on the prices of custom knives? As for me, I think that if you attract the people that are willing to pay the big bucks, you will see a definite increase (possibly a major one) in the price of at least the higher end knives. This will be good for secondary market, but could put collecting of these knives totally out of the reach of the average knife collector.

I want knifemakers to be successful, but I guess I am also selfish in that I want my hobby to continue to be something that I can afford to partake in.

 

[Kevin Jones]

What does everyone think will be the result of attracting art collectors on the prices of custom knives? As for me, I think that if you attract the people that are willing to pay the big bucks, you will see a definite increase (possibly a major one) in the price of at least the higher end knives. This will be good for secondary market, but could put collecting of these knives totally out of the reach of the average knife collector.

I want knifemakers to be successful, but I guess I am also selfish in that I want my hobby to continue to be something that I can afford to partake in.

Good point Keith as what's good for the industry in general may not be good for some collectors.
But we see that even now in that some collectors are finding they can't afford to continue to collect their favorite maker's knives even without art community influence.

 

[jdm61]

What an insightful post.



What does everyone think will be the result of attracting art collectors on the prices of custom knives? As for me, I think that if you attract the people that are willing to pay the big bucks, you will see a definite increase (possibly a major one) in the price of at least the higher end knives. This will be good for secondary market, but could put collecting of these knives totally out of the reach of the average knife collector.

I want knifemakers to be successful, but I guess I am also selfish in that I want my hobby to continue to be something that I can afford to partake in.

Good point, sir. But the sad truth is that most knifemakers need to be able to make money at their craft. With the exception of the stuff from the guys at the top of the pyramid, custom knives are not as proportionally expensive as they were 20 years ago when compared to factory stuff, at least from my limted experience. I don't know if this is because the supply has increased exponetially or that peoples work has just become so much better that the "bottom" of the market is where the "top" used to be, but that is what I see.

 

[Will Leavitt]

I want the high end guys to get bought up by the art collectors so my attempts at "applied metal artistry" will be purchased by the guys that can't afford the high end guys any more Just kidding...

Increasing the base of people that purchase custom knives will only help everyone in the long run. So maybe the waiting lists get longer for the top makers, at least they'll be able to continue to be viable economic ventures as makers. My teacher explained it to me like this...

"There are probably 5000-10000 makers out there, there are probably almost 100,000 people that buy knives (collectors or not) most people won't like your work but your work will strike a chord both as a maker and a person with 10-20 of them. That's your customer base. Do what you can to meet those 10-20 people.".

All it takes is a few collectors to accept us as a form of art. It's funny, this would seem to be more of a Shoptalk thread.

Well I think my pig has cooled down enough for some dressing to be applied