Proposed drawings of -1- H.I.'Hawk & Southwestern Bowie.

Joined
May 18, 1999
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15,395
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Well here are the 1st rough drawings of the 1st proposed H.I.'Hawk and Southwestern style Bowie.
Tell me what y'all think.
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They are not to scale, but have some rough dimensions to give y'all an idea of the size.
I will try and get some more done this week as the drs.appointmnts permits and post them in this thread. Stay tuned.
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View


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>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.

[This message has been edited by Yvsa (edited 02-12-2001).]
 
Nice work, Yvsa. Both pieces look great.

By the way, did the pipe hawk get voted down? I was kind of hoping that would win out.

Blues

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Live Free or Die

Blues' Knife Pix
 
it's exciting to see these at this early stage, knowing that eventually the day will come when Uncle Bill unwraps a package from Nepal...and there they'll be.
Yvsa, I was wondering about the length of the tomahawk shaft, and the width of the metal head on the horizontal plane. Also, are you committed to the idea of that spike on the end opposite the blade? A hammer head would probably be more useful for me.
Regarding the bowie, I expect that you've called it the Southwestern Bowie for good historical reason, and yet I'm struck that the drawing has a certain Carribbean piractical feel.
 
Looks great Yvsa! I really like bearded ax blades myself. They just look meaner!

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Chris B.
 
I agree about the "piratical" aspect of the bowie.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't buy one, though...

Ahoy, matey!

-Dave
 
:
Sorry guys but the vote was for more spike 'hawks than any other. I figure we can go for it first and then a polled 'hawk and then a pipe 'hawk.
I really wanted a pipe 'hawk 1st as well.
It wouldn't take that much to make three models all at once, but Uncle Bill might have a problem with the kamis keeping things straight.
And I am going to try and make the 'hawk head models fit a Crazycrow Trading Post handle I have here. That would simplify things for the guys who want to throw their 'hawks, because it ain't if the handle will break, but when.
And I am also in e-mail consulting with Uncle Bill, but the wedding has taken prcedence over everything else tonight.
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And you're right about the SW Bowie. It does have a Carribean slant, but then a lot of the old blacksmith made SW Bowies did too.
Perhaps because some of them were made under a Spanish influence and made by Spanish Smith's?
I really don't know, it's just that these have always been my favorite Bowie with perhaps the excepton of The Iron Mistress.
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I am open for suggestions and we'll try to get the 1st one's right and then the others should be easier.
So if you would like to see something a bit different try to describe it or post a drawing and we'll take it from there.
I am still concerned about the pipe 'hawk and the possible problems, but Andy Prisco and the new Amerian Tomahawk Company doesn't seem concerned, maybe I will drop Andy a line.
And they of course wouldn't be H.I. Products but could be an option for those that don't want to wait.
If I didn't have all I have wall space for I would probably get a couple of Andy's as well.
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Keep the comments coming as I would really like this to be a group effort like the original AK Bowie proposed by Cobalt with a lot of input from the other forumites was. It turned out great and there's no reason these won't be great as well.
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Jance I will try to get back with the info on the handle length sometime tomorrow as I will need to uncover it.
And as to the horizontal length it would be made to scale where it looks and balances right.
Did you have something in mind as to the length?
Like I said, "I'm open to suggestions."
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>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.

[This message has been edited by Yvsa (edited 02-13-2001).]
 
Nice work Yvsa! Have you seen the spike hawk from RMJ Forge? Rusty's hawk looks good also. What type/ pattern is his?
 
Nice work as usual, Yvsa. I particularly like the shape of the edge on the hawk head you've sketched out. Does this follow any particular historical pattern?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yvsa:
...And I am going to try and make the 'hawk head models fit a Crazycrow Trading Post handle I have here. That would simplify things for the guys who want to throw their 'hawks, because it ain't if the handle will break, but when...</font>

This is definitely a good idea. I normally wouldn't presume to tell the kamis how they should work but, considering that they usually freehand things, a bit of up-front direction might help them keep the hawk eyes consistent. Here's how RMJ Forge describes the process, "The eye is then shaped by piercing the bar with a punching tool called a drift. This is a tool made of steel that is shaped like the tomahawk handle we make." A more complete description is available here. It would seem to me that a "drift" would definitely be the way for the kamis to go.

From my own experience with a Cold Steel hawk, there need to be fairly close tolerances for the handle to fit well. After modifying the CS handle a bit, I finally achieved an acceptable secure fit. Prior to this, regardless of how hard I would pound the handle in place, light chopping or a throw or two would invariably send the head sliding back down the shaft.

I've definitely been bitten by the hawk bug & I'm looking forward to adding a HI model or two to my collection. Thanks, Yvsa, for taking the time to help make this possible.



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Cheers,
Brian

He who finishes with the most toys wins.
 
Well I really love my HI bowie, and I am sure that I will love the YCS.

Heck if it is sharp and from HI I have got to get it.
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Many thanks to Yvsa for all his hard work.
 
Before proceeding to pipe hawk, I'd like to have a HI pipe if possible. May sound like a joke but I'm fond of one.
There were "battle pipe" in Japan, as a civilian's self defense weapon (as blunt instrument). Largest one is told to weigh over 5 lbs but still capable of smoking or it would have been illegal at that time.

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\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
:
I dug out my old Blackhawk with the Crazycrow handle and the handle is 19" long and tapered larger towards the head.
Looking at it the head on this H.I. model will probably be in the neighborhood of 7 3/8" long. And the thickness at the eye about 3/8 inch on both sides.

For me and all the 'Hawks I have handled over the years the Blackhawk is the absolute best all around throwing and working 'Hawk bar none.
It has a small poll on the back of the head and a reinforced area below the eye on the front side to help prevent handle breakage.
The only downside to them is the heavy edge that to me needs to be worked down to make it what it should be for a working and throwing 'Hawk.

A good "trick" for any axe, hatchet or 'Hawk is to soak the handle where it fits into the eye about 4 days in boiled linseed oil.
Actually the whole handle if you have a container that long.
This helps the wood to stay put in the eye and also helps to make it resist breaking when thrown.

And Brian there's no really historical accuracy the design comes from. It is a mixture of many that I have seen and played with over the years, hopefully incorporateing the best from all of them.
The design is about middle sized for most 'Hawks. Some of them were very large with heads up to seven inches wide, but most of those were also much thinner.
Generally the smaller and larger 'Hawks were more weapon than tool.



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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net----&gt;®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
Yvsa--after you've soaked the wood handle for 4 days in boiled linseed oil, do you still need to secure the hawk's head on the handle with a wedge, or does all that soaking make it unnecessary?
 
:
Jance glad you asked that!!
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I was going to address that in my last post and forgot.
With the tapered eye and handles the handle will stick out the top of the 'Hawk from about 3/4" to 1 1/4 inches.
And you want to leave it that way because as the wood compresses over time it will keep creeping down into the head.

This is the way many of the very old handled tools were made. I have a "real" miners pick that is made that way that my cuz found in an old abandoned place a few years back, fortunately for me he found 2 of them and so I got one.
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(VBG)
He used early models of draw knives to make the handles from seasoned oak and they are very thin and light. (We ike to recycle old tools whenever we can.)
I have been told the newer small picks are made like hammer handles and a wedge is used but I haven't seen any small picks like these before or since to compare.
They would not be nearly as strong or dependable as the old way, just easier for the manufacturer and the handle maker.
( If I can get over my medical problems and we get to come to Florida I will try to remember to bring it along. It is a really nice example of the forgers art of the late 1700's and early 1800's.)

Where you can temporarily tighten a modern tool head by strikeing the butt end of the handle on a hard solid surface the opposite is done with the tapered handle. The head end is struck on a hard solid surface tightening the head.
The original idea is that the tool head keeps getting tighter the more it's used, the same as the new heavy picks and mattaxe or mattocks.(I guess they are still made that way, haven't paid any attention lately.)
But throwing the 'Hawk and hitting on the butt end will cause the handle to loosen unless a tremendous force is used to install the handle like Andy Prisco has talked about in his new forum.

And one of the problems with throwing weapons or tools is that a person realy needs several or at the least a gofer.
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You can get a nice afternoon or morning walk in by throwing just one knife or 'Hawk just by retrieveing it all the time.
When I was a lot younger I had several different knives and one hatchet that I could throw from a varying distance of 25 to 30 feet by either moving closer or further away from the target.
The idea that a knife has to be perfectly balanced for throwing is just a bunch of baloney to me. If you "Know" your knife or other weapon and the correct distance for "it" you can stick it.
To be able to stick it wherever you want it to it is what takes the practice.
And the same is true of 'Hawks or hatchets or axes. All you have to do is "know" your piece.
And it has been my experience that the more you practice and the more varied knives,'Hawks or whatever you use, the better you can pick up a new piece and kinda heft it getting "its feel" and throw it where it will stick the 1st time. Again, getting it to stick where you want it too takes practice.

Sorry to get so long again. I told Uncle Bill the other day that it's a genetic thing as ndns do like to talk.
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net----&gt;®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
That is a big bowie. How about angling the top guard forward more? It help to prevent the guard from pinching the web between the fingers and thumb during a hard thrust.

It will be interesting when you make the wood prototypes.

Will
 
Bro Yvsa.

Curiousity! ... this must be a sort of s****d question ...
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... just how heavy a Tomahawk is?

Huh! ... a morning chuckling oppurtunity for Pakcik Bill ...
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!

NEPAL HO!

 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yvsa:
...A good "trick" for any axe, hatchet or 'Hawk is to soak the handle where it fits into the eye about 4 days in boiled linseed oil. Actually the whole handle if you have a container that long. This helps the wood to stay put in the eye and also helps to make it resist breaking when thrown.

And Brian there's no really historical accuracy the design comes from. It is a mixture of many that I have seen and played with over the years, hopefully incorporateing the best from all of them...
</font>

Thanks for the boiled linseed oil tip, Yvsa. I've used it as a wood finish but hadn't thought to use it to help swell the wood. Just so I have it right, would you soak it with the head in place or prior to seating it?

Once I finally got an acceptable fit on my CS hawk, I wrapped some leather lace for about 3/4" around the handle right below the head & coated it with epoxy to help keep the head from shifting. By then rubbing the dry epoxy with ScotchBrite, the plastic look is gone & all you see is leather. So far, it has held up pretty well. I'll take & post a pic when I have a chance.

I really like the hawk design you came up with. Drawing on conventional wisdom really can yield great results, like in this case.
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Cheers,
Brian

He who finishes with the most toys wins.

[This message has been edited by bcaffrey (edited 02-14-2001).]
 
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