Bad PSA: Use CAUTION selling to BF buyer "LIN" (AKA Kai Zhao)

[SpyderPhreak]

***CAUTION!!!***​

BF member "LIN" is an admitted Chinese-based buyer that uses a freight forwarder somewhere in the NE part of the USA to import a large number of blades into China!!!

He is nothing more than an importer, making these purchases here as a business to resell in China at an obvious profit, and is NOT here to be any part of this community (which is quite obvious when you check his post areas to see ALL 300+ are in the for sale sections with the exception of a few in the past thread in GBU). It'd still be bad enough if he did the right thing and ponied up to properly support the site by purchasing a dealer membership, but he won't, and unfortunately since he's not selling anything here, he will not be required to upgrade his membership as per management (Spark).

If you don't want your beloved, rare, and high-dollar knives to disappear into China never to be seen again, please do not sell to this member!!! Whatever happens to the knives once in China is anyone's guess, but I'd be amazed if at least some of them weren't being used for patterns leading to counterfeiting given the cost of some of the stuff this member can be seen buying here.

This all came to light in a previous GBU thread where there was a problem with a knife he purchased. I'll post the link in a few minutes. LINK

Just a public service announcement. Thanks.

PS - Mods, Spark approved me making this post awhile back before the new software upgrade, but since LIN hadn't been buying so prolifically as he had been, I didn't make the post at the time. Apparently he's back at it again, so I'm putting this warning out there for the community now.

 

[KELAMA]

^ It's pretty hard not to remember this dishonest member, Lin.
http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/lin-aka-kai-zhao-issue-resolved.1429838/

IMO, this member's actions on this forum, (not being forthcoming), were/are, blatantly deceitful! I was disgusted, reading the way a reputable BF maker (Bobby Branton), was duped into shipping a $1200 knife to this guy, and ended up losing out big time.

Thanks for the reminder, SP. The other member's here on Bladeforums, need to be kept informed, regarding foreign buyer's (FLIPPERS) like this, who behave in this manner.

Caveat Emptor!

 

[laurin]

So if seller want to sell knife he should be aware that knife probably never see again in US? It doesn't make a sense to me.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

So if seller want to sell knife he should be aware that knife probably never see again in US? It doesn't make a sense to me.

They should be aware that the US shipping address provided isn't the final destination for the package. If I ship to an address and the item is damaged or missing I would immediately assume responsibility. If I ship the item, it arrives at the address given intact, is forwarded to another address I was unaware of and the item is damaged or missing it creates a very bad situation as in the thread referenced above.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I hate reading more and more of these posts it seems.

I actually have sorted through my collection throughout this past year or so ... and decided to down size any duplicates or those that just never found their way into being used. But all these nightmare stories give me pause about selling them.

I guess I will have to put stipulations on all sales and do my homework before the final "handshake" so to say it's a deal.

And I know 90% on here are good people and fair but the amount of money lost at times is insane and I'm not sure why crminal charges haven't been filed in some cases.

 

[KELAMA]

So if seller want to sell knife he should be aware that knife probably never see again in US? It doesn't make a sense to me.

This was just another angle, which apparently bothered the OP; that, & the being a flipper part.

If you'd read the entire thread linked (involving this Lin character), these 2 points don't even make a blip on the radar screen as far as I'm concerned.

Here is the OP (copied & pasted) which was posted by BB in another thread:

I sold a $1,200.00 custom knife to LIN. I shipped it fully insured on my dime and it was received at an address in New Hampshire that he gave me in a timely manner on July 31, 2016. I waited a few days to make sure there were no issues and after a PM to LIN and no response, I transferred the money from PP to my bank.
On August 20, 2016 I received an e mail from KAI ZHAO stating that the knife was improperly packaged and that the tip was broke and that the knife was sticking out of the box. He did send a pic of the knife laying on the bubble wrap and box, but no pic of the damaged box. I put the knife in the sheath and wrapped in in bubble wrap and stretch wrap.
After investigation, I found out that he does not live in NJ and is having the knives delivered there to be repackaged and sent to him in China. I think the knife was damaged and then shipped to him hence the three week delay.
Even though I did not feel at fault, I asked him why he waited so long as the package was insured and told him that he could send it to the maker and I would ask the maker to fix it and send it back to the address in NH on my dime.
I waited again for a couple of weeks and received a claim from Pay Pay and the locked up my account. Through Pay Pal he wanted to keep the knife and have me refund him $660.00. I refused the deal and contacted Pay Pal. Figuring that I was in a no win situation with PP having my account locked up, I eventually agreed to take the knife back and refund his money.

They gave him ten days to provided them with a valid tracking number and when I received the knife, they would refund his money and unlock my account.
Eleven days later he sends them a invalid shipping number. I contact Pay Pal and after thirty minutes on the phone explaining that I had kept my end of the deal, they ruled in my favor.

This morning I wake up and he has appealed the ruling and provided them with a tracking number from China and the package will not get here until 9-20-16.
So, be careful who you are dealing with as who you think you are dealing with may not be who you think. If I had known this was going to China and being handled by more than the buyer, I would have never sold him a knife.

Bobby

^ You should read the entire thread, Laurin.

It's these kind of situations, which makes a lot of member's here very reluctant to ever want to do business with an International buyer. This transaction should've been considered completed, once BB's custom knife was delivered to the proxy buyer here Stateside. Lin should've communicated that he would hold BB accountable for his $1200.00 custom knife making the journey all the way to China, prior to him purchasing his knife, which he did not!

FWIW: Lin couldn't offer me any amount of money for a knife, to ever consider wanting to do business with him

 

[lieferung]

Is this sort of practice allowed here? Seems if he's a dealer he should have a dealers membership, no?

 

[Boru13]

Is this sort of practice allowed here? Seems if he's a dealer he should have a dealers membership, no?

I would have to go back and look at @LIN feedback score but I don't believe that he has ever sold a knife on the forums, he is strictly a buyer.

You can't make him purchase a dealer membership when he is not selling here.

 

[lieferung]

Ah I see. I got a bit confused.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Nasty ole' capitalism. Buying a product where you can get it, intending to sell it somewhere for more than you paid.

How many U.S. companies promise to sell only in the U.S>?

 

[Zombie411]

Vicea versa too.
We import 60 billion worth of Chinese goods for profit.

The OP was taken advantage of in the simple act of someone re-shipping his knife, while the OP still bore the responsibility.

Other than that it's a moral judgment.
According to the forum buying structure Lin did not break a forum rule.

Deceitful? yes! Only (IMHO) due to the proxy set up.

Bad feed back... the facts speak for themselves. You have to love that "Ignore" button.

 

[brownshoe]

"If you don't want your beloved, rare, and high-dollar knives to disappear into China never to be seen again, please do not sell to this member!!! Whatever happens to the knives once in China is anyone's guess, but I'd be amazed if at least some of them weren't being used for patterns leading to counterfeiting given the cost of some of the stuff this member can be seen buying here."

That's rich. They are knives not children. I think you mistake a problem with one person, Lin, as a problem with an entire country.

 

[Thomas Linton]

"The OP was taken advantage of in the simple act of someone re-shipping his knife, while the OP still bore the responsibility."

Unless agreed otherwise, under U.S. law, risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are delivered to the address agreed to in the contract of sale. That leaves an issue of fact - where did the damage happen? But it's hardly automatic that the seller/shipper is responsible.

 

[Zombie411]

I agree.
It is sheer speculation but I have to assume the damage happened in transit to China.
Otherwise the "proxy" would have reported the damage before sending it all that way.

UNLESS the proxy is a drop ship service that simply forwards mail with no intervention or liability.
I THINK Mail Boxes ect... has such a service.

In either event the knife made it to it's "ship to address", and no claim was made at that time.
The OP should bear no responsibility beyond that point.

The rest is subjective/perspective/speculation.

 

[craytab]

Some folks seem to be focusing on the wrong aspects here.

SpyderPhreak I remember that thread. What an absolute mess. The issue is this lin character did not let the seller know he was not sending the knife to lin. The knives were sent to china via proxy who repackaged them and lin sent them back complaining damage. This is bull snot. The knife was shipped 2 times beyond what the seller should have been responsible for yet he ended up getting screwed. Not sure of the legalities when paypal is involved and it really doesn't matter a bit in this case. Fact is, a seller should be informed if the buyer is using a proxy. End of story.

So, I am wondering in all the recent purchases this lin guy has made if he informed the sellers he uses a proxy service. I know the busse guys are tight. Perhaps folks who know those involved in the recent purchases could reach out and ask if the proxy buying was disclosed. If it wasn't I would think the mods should take a real look at this guys buying practices.

 

[Casinostocks]

Thank you OP for the heads up. Based on the material I have read on here, I will refuse to do business with this buyer if/when I should put up another one of my knives for sale but the reason will have nothing to do with the fact that the buyer is Chinese or that he intends to make a profit on what becomes his property, upon lawful and successful conclusion of the said transaction.

There are inherent risks involved with selling online which are not just limited to overseas buyers but the seller's concern ought to be to minimize such risks by taking proper and prudent measures. One such risk is when a third party proxy shipper is involved whereby they open to inspect the package and then re-package to ship out to the final destination. If this site has no power to force a member who is a de facto dealer to purchase a dealer's membership, perhaps they would consider implementing a member's country of origin or registration. For instance I sell items on eBay (not knives) so I use PP and I often knowingly ship out to 3rd party shippers whereby I know that the overseas buyer has elected to forego the perhaps more expensive eBay's Global Shipping Program (GSP). I take such risks because I need to do business and also I have determined that the margin of error is less on the kind of ware I hawk vs something like selling an expensive item such as a knife! Case in point: I am aware and I choose to take the risk and accept the consequences, good or bad.

Here is a tip: when a buyer is not from the U.S. you will see that PayPal charges 3.9% + $0.30 as opposed to the U.S. fees which are 2.9% + $0.30. Be very diligent and carefully examine as to what you have netted and if you are opposed to selling to anyone overseas for whatever reason, whether justified or not, you have the option to reverse and refund before you contemplate on consummating the transaction and shipping out.

 

[craytab]

Thank you OP for the heads up. Based on the material I have read on here, I will refuse to do business with this buyer if/when I should put up another one of my knives for sale but the reason will have nothing to do with the fact that the buyer is Chinese or that he intends to make a profit on what becomes his property, upon lawful and successful conclusion of the said transaction.

There are inherent risks involved with selling online which are not just limited to overseas buyers but the seller's concern ought to be to minimize such risks by taking proper and prudent measures. One such risk is when a third party proxy shipper is involved whereby they open to inspect the package and then re-package to ship out to the final destination. If this site has no power to force a member who is a de facto dealer to purchase a dealer's membership, perhaps they would consider implementing a member's country of origin or registration. For instance I sell items on eBay (not knives) so I use PP and I often knowingly ship out to 3rd party shippers whereby I know that the overseas buyer has elected to forego the perhaps more expensive eBay's Global Shipping Program (GSP). I take such risks because I need to do business and also I have determined that the margin of error is less on the kind of ware I hawk vs something like selling an expensive item such as a knife! Case in point: I am aware and I choose to take the risk and accept the consequences, good or bad.

Here is a tip: when a buyer is not from the U.S. you will see that PayPal charges 3.9% + $0.30 as opposed to the U.S. fees which are 2.9% + $0.30. Be very diligent and carefully examine as to what you have netted and if you are opposed to selling to anyone overseas for whatever reason, whether justified or not, you have the option to reverse and refund before you contemplate on consummating the transaction and shipping out.

The problem becomes when the buyer is not honest or upfront about buying through a proxy. Country of original might be a good idea but it would take mod work to verify. I think people who get caught buying through a proxy without disclosure should get an infraction or banned. Put this in the rules for buying (like they will read it ). A seller should have the right to choose which country is being sold to. Just look at the example in the OP.

 

[Casinostocks]

The problem becomes when the buyer is not honest or upfront about buying through a proxy. Country of original might be a good idea but it would take mod work to verify. I think people who get caught buying through a proxy without disclosure should get an infraction or banned. Put this in the rules for buying (like they will read it ). A seller should have the right to choose which country is being sold to. Just look at the example in the OP.

I agree that some extra prudence is definitely in order. Watching out for that extra PP fee is like PITA especially since some people from the U.S. just make up their own fee structure like, "add 4% for PP" but the current actuality of the fee structure is what I had previously quoted.

OT: when shipping to eBay's GSP center in Erlanger, KY for transit to final overseas destination, they never open to inspect or repackage the original package. Such practices if/when by the other party shippers is nothing but problematic.

 

[craytab]

I agree that some extra prudence is definitely in order. Watching out for that extra PP fee is like PITA especially since some people from the U.S. just make up their own fee structure like, "add 4% for PP" but the current actuality of the fee structure is what I had previously quoted.

OT: when shipping to eBay's GSP center in Erlanger, KY for transit to final overseas destination, they never open to inspect or repackage the original package. Such practices if/when by the other party shippers is nothing but problematic.

In the linked thread the seller never knew he was shipping to a proxy and it was an address that incurred no extra fees. The nondisclosure is the real problem.

 

[Casinostocks]

In the linked thread the seller never knew he was shipping to a proxy and it was an address that incited no extra fees. The nondisclosure is the real problem.

If indeed there was no extra fees then the buyer had a registered U.S. bank / bankcard. I must go and re-read the OP but I fail to see how the buyer could've won the case shipping back from China. I must read this stuff after coffee, not before

Edited to add: I often sell to legitimate U.S. addresses (residential / commercial) which I verify via Google, addresses which are deemed as "confirmed" by PayPal to ship to, all the while I know that the buyer is from overseas. Some people just have family members and friends that become the custodian of that product for safe passage to its actual buyer. Not everything is nefarious but sellers beware!