Bad PSA: Use CAUTION selling to BF buyer "LIN" (AKA Kai Zhao)

[craytab]

Thanks for all the clarification SpyderPhreak , and I agree that it seems super shady and a way to get around the rules here....

Yup!!
Since he doesn't sell here, he isn't doing anything wrong and doesn't need a dealer membership.
He sells everything he buys here, in China.
Don't have a problem with that, but I do have one with him not letting sellers know there is a proxy involved.
Joe

That said, I also agree with Joe. It is not against the rules and so long as it is not against the rules people can do whatever they want with knives once they buy them here.

What is not okay is not letting a seller know a proxy is involved. I am still very curious if any of lin's recent transaction partners could chime in on if there was any disclosure of a proxy. If not, that is a big problem.

 

[evltcat]

Another for the ignore list. Thanks for the warning SpyderPhreak !

 

[-Corey-]

I really don't have a problem with the guy buying knives to sell to Chinese collectors. I would view that the same as if someone from the states was buying up all the hard to find stuff from the Russian forums and then offering them for sale here. Most of us aren't willing to go through the trouble of trying to buy stuff off the Russian forums, even though there are knives for sale there that we'd like to have. I also don't think he should be required to have a dealer membership here. The benefit of that membership is that a dealer gets to advertise their business here and potentially gain revenue from the exposure they received here. He's not advertising or gaining any business from increased exposure here.

 

[Gastonknife]

Although I understand the frustration here (and I think it is not right if he is not communicating the proxy situation to sellers), Seems some of the conspiracy theories here are really getting a bit over the top.
Going on a crusade here to oppose selling to someone from China seems futile at best and misguided at worst. Don't see why someone from China should not be able to purchase nice knives; nor anyone from Australia, Germany or Canada for that matter.

 

[JJHollowman]

One reason for his proxy system could be because regular shipments from one person in the USA isn't going to attract much attention from his local authorities, be they customs or whomever, whereas multiple shipments from a lot of different people and addresses would. I'm not saying that Chinese authorities aren't above requiring a little "grease" or that some packages would be confiscated or just "vanish".. because we all know that saying something like that wouldn't be very nice. More capitalism or not, some things are still the same in China, I'm sure. In a country with zero personal firearms ownership it could be that regular shipments of "tactical knives" could be problematic.

 

[palonej]

The only problem most seem to have with the buyer is he was not honest at the beginning of the transaction, of a $1,200 knife, with Bobby B.
That caused a major problem that never should have come up.
I'm pretty sure most of us would have dealt with Lin......IF he was up front with the proxy. He's not.
If you were in that position that got thrown at Bob, you wouldn't be typing what you did. PP froze his account.......$1,200 is a lot of scratch.
Joe

Although I understand the frustration here (and I think it is not right if he is not communicating the proxy situation to sellers), Seems some of the conspiracy theories here are really getting a bit over the top.
Going on a crusade here to oppose selling to someone from China seems futile at best and misguided at worst. Don't see why someone from China should not be able to purchase nice knives; nor anyone from Australia, Germany or Canada for that matter.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

There may be members that fully disclose that they are using a proxy, but to my memory the only ones that tell you are those you realize are non US and tell them you only ship to a US address. Then it comes up. I have no problem shipping to a proxy address. I have no problem if they take(or send) the knife to China or any where else they desire-it's theirs. I have a big problem if they expect me to be responsible for the item after it is received at the address I am given, and or handled by someone other then the buyer(need to say again in a timely manner). If the buyer takes on the responsibility after original shipping I am fine.

 

[Gastonknife]

Joe, Please read my post again - I addressed the proxy thing. I said it was not right if he was not disclosing that. The rest was not necessarily specific to Lin. Just a general statement about buyers in other countries and the unsubstantiated theories that started to run wild by some.

 

[palonej]

Gotcha brother!! Sorry bout that!

Joe, Please read my post again - I addressed the proxy thing. I said it was not right if he was not disclosing that. The rest was not necessarily specific to Lin. Just a general statement about buyers in other countries and the unsubstantiated theories that started to run wild by some.

 

[Zombie411]

I agree 100% with Mr. Palone.

If YOUR business is selling high end knifes, what better place to purchase them than a forum dedicated to knives.
You notice I did not state "knife collecting", as this is clearly not what this forum is dedicated to.
There are a couple hundred sellers here.

The proxy dealing is fine, as long as it is disclosed. If not? Then it is deception by withholding facts.

Let's assume that the proxy was never mentioned, and insurance/PayPal were only held liable up to the point of delivery... Would there still be a conversation about this proxy?

I get the not feeding the monster aspect as far as supplying knives to factories for reproduction. I DO! But this is not a verified fact in this thread. It is an assumption.
I trust that everyone that cares enough to read this thread is a grown adult. Adults make their own decisions. Those decisions MUST be based on facts before assumption. Otherwise we all know what happens... A.S.S.U.M.E.

Mr. Lin is obviously exporting a lot of knives. They may be a source of income to him for his family. We do not know.
I know one person that exports custom Harley motorcycles to Columbia. He sends several containers full every month, and is a millionaire because of this.
Some club guys won't sell to him but many others do.

I honestly feel for your situation Mr. Spyder Phreak. I do... I also understand your opinion. It's not difficult to relate to.

Sticking to the facts that are known is MUCH more productive, and civil in my most humble opinion.

 

[LIN]

Hi SpyderPhreak:
Thank you for so much concern on me.

1. Thanks for mention that I have 300+ post in for sale sections, I did not notice that before.
since I have such numbers of buying, and no one complain about the dealing, I think that make some sense.
since all the 300+ sellers did not ever title me as "Bad", why you?
I remember I have no deal with you, at least , not in a year.

2. the isse you linked beween me and Bobby Branton, after we realized the issue caused by our misunderstanding about the language, we focus on how to solve the problem, and we solve the problem well.
when Boby and I solve the problem, I belive you juding and talking like China staff all the time in that thread.
And it should happen one year ago.
Bobby and I have emailed after that, we try to have another deal since that.
If you do not belive, you can ask Bobby.


3. I do use a proxy address in US , but I do not hide it.
But I think I have no need to announce that to you.
Most seller have problem ship oversea,that is why I get US address.
And several times, some seller does claimed he do not ship to proxy address, only the buyer personal receiving, I cancel order and not lying.
that should the the conversation between me and seller, I think, not you!

4. please do not make such judge when knife go to China.
becaus we here in China can not get knife easily, we much more treasure the knife we get.
And I belive each knifemaker and knife brand hope their product go over the world, why you want them keep staying only in US?
just because some time you want to buy them easily?

5. I am curious why you start all these now.
the issue between me and Bobby have over a year, and I have no deal with you.
then I think this thread start because I take two Swamprat Waki which maybe you want them too.
http://bladeforums.com/threads/3-unused-waki-and-bg-ak47-variant-fsot.1518267/
sorry, he do not cancel the deal after you say the China staff or the BAD thread.
the seller and I have deal before and we go well.

the end of all, I do not want some endless fight,especilly in internet.
I am not a keyboard man.
I have already say what I need to say.
we both have work to do,no need to waste time in the nosense fight.
take care!

 

[JJHollowman]

the issue between me and Bobby have over a year, and I have no deal with you.
then I think this thread start because I take two Swamprat Waki which maybe you want them too.
http://bladeforums.com/threads/3-unused-waki-and-bg-ak47-variant-fsot.1518267/

LOL
Lin, it probably wouldn't hurt you to get a dealer membership, though. It'd stop a lot of future complaints. Also, would Busey sell knives to China?

 

[Zombie411]

Too much China bashing guys...
Personal feelings, legal issues, sour deals aside...
It does not sound right or look good from an outside perspective.
Just sayin'

 

[gonebad395]

***CAUTION!!!***​

BF member "LIN" is an admitted Chinese-based buyer that uses a freight forwarder somewhere in the NE part of the USA to import a large number of blades into China!!!

He is nothing more than an importer, making these purchases here as a business to resell in China at an obvious profit, and is NOT here to be any part of this community (which is quite obvious when you check his post areas to see ALL 300+ are in the for sale sections with the exception of a few in the past thread in GBU). It'd still be bad enough if he did the right thing and ponied up to properly support the site by purchasing a dealer membership, but he won't, and unfortunately since he's not selling anything here, he will not be required to upgrade his membership as per management (Spark).

If you don't want your beloved, rare, and high-dollar knives to disappear into China never to be seen again, please do not sell to this member!!! Whatever happens to the knives once in China is anyone's guess, but I'd be amazed if at least some of them weren't being used for patterns leading to counterfeiting given the cost of some of the stuff this member can be seen buying here.

This all came to light in a previous GBU thread where there was a problem with a knife he purchased. I'll post the link in a few minutes. LINK

Just a public service announcement. Thanks.

PS - Mods, Spark approved me making this post awhile back before the new software upgrade, but since LIN hadn't been buying so prolifically as he had been, I didn't make the post at the time. Apparently he's back at it again, so I'm putting this warning out there for the community now.

Now I'm not a fan of proxy buying at all and wouldn't sell to someone after I found out they were using a proxy address. But a question to the op why out of the blue did this post come up? Did he in fact buy 2 of a knife you wanted and it pissed you off? I mean the link you posted was a year ago so it's not like he's here everyday buying knives or you would have more recent post to link. Or he is here everyday buying up knives and they have all went some what smooth or smooth and this is the problem post you found to whine about. Just sounding like a bitter post because you aren't happy about something other then the beloved knifes are goingto Chinese buyers. And then agian after reading lins response to this and the link he provided you broke a forum rule with your comment on the sales thread. You seem really bitter and I thin lin hit the nail on the head.

 

[Gastonknife]

Funny how so many of these threads turn. With that being said, would like to hear from Branton.

 

[KELAMA]

Although I understand the frustration here (and I think it is not right if he is not communicating the proxy situation to sellers), Seems some of the conspiracy theories here are really getting a bit over the top.

^ Lin is a shyster, and knew exactly what he was doing in his transaction with BB! I could personally care less what he does with these knives once he buys them....flip em, clone em...I could give a crap; it doesn't change what he did! After reading what he did to BB, it's crystal clear he shouldn't be trusted!

Don't see why someone from China should not be able to purchase nice knives; nor anyone from Australia, Germany or Canada for that matter.

I have no problem shipping a knife to an International buyer, provided they disclose this fact in advance along with assuming 100% of the responsibility once the knife is shipped.

I guesstimate that I've shipped well over a dozen knives (many expensive bali's) to buyer's in Russia, Australia, New Zealand (to name a few), because these brother's reached out to me and were upfront from the very beginning.

FWIW: ^ Every single one of these knives arrived to their respective destinations, undamaged.

A

 

[KELAMA]

Hi SpyderPhreak:
Thank you for so much concern on me.

1. Thanks for mention that I have 300+ post in for sale sections, I did not notice that before.
since I have such numbers of buying, and no one complain about the dealing, I think that make some sense.
since all the 300+ sellers did not ever title me as "Bad", why you?
I remember I have no deal with you, at least , not in a year.

2. the isse you linked beween me and Bobby Branton, after we realized the issue caused by our misunderstanding about the language, we focus on how to solve the problem, and we solve the problem well.
when Boby and I solve the problem, I belive you juding and talking like China staff all the time in that thread.
And it should happen one year ago.
Bobby and I have emailed after that, we try to have another deal since that.
If you do not belive, you can ask Bobby.


3. I do use a proxy address in US , but I do not hide it.
But I think I have no need to announce that to you.
Most seller have problem ship oversea,that is why I get US address.
And several times, some seller does claimed he do not ship to proxy address, only the buyer personal receiving, I cancel order and not lying.
that should the the conversation between me and seller, I think, not you!

4. please do not make such judge when knife go to China.
becaus we here in China can not get knife easily, we much more treasure the knife we get.
And I belive each knifemaker and knife brand hope their product go over the world, why you want them keep staying only in US?
just because some time you want to buy them easily?

5. I am curious why you start all these now.
the issue between me and Bobby have over a year, and I have no deal with you.
then I think this thread start because I take two Swamprat Waki which maybe you want them too.
http://bladeforums.com/threads/3-unused-waki-and-bg-ak47-variant-fsot.1518267/
sorry, he do not cancel the deal after you say the China staff or the BAD thread.
the seller and I have deal before and we go well.

the end of all, I do not want some endless fight,especilly in internet.
I am not a keyboard man.
I have already say what I need to say.
we both have work to do,no need to waste time in the nosense fight.
take care!

Well one good thing: now most of the member's here are informed that you're an International buyer; one who uses a U.S. proxy address. And we know that if any damage results during the transit from the U.S. to China (which you facilitate), you'll file a PayPal dispute.

Just an FYI: You might consider being a little more forthcoming, perhaps in your signature line; something along the lines that you're an International buyer and you use a U.S. proxy address...but won't consider the transaction completed until the knife/knives arrives at it's destination, in China, undamaged.

^ Then see how many seller's here in the U.S. would want to do any type of business with you.

 

[Zombie411]

Has anyone read page 7 of the OP's linked thread?
http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/lin-aka-kai-zhao-issue-resolved.1429838/page-7

I think there was some confusion in THIS thread.
I also have an idea of what happened to the "damaged" knife in the other thread but it is pure speculation.
Pre flight inspections, and Post flight customs inspections do NOT have to bear a witness mark or stamp.
Any one of several persons DID in fact handle that 1,200.00 knife from the linked thread.

That thread was/IS marked "Resolved". THIS thread used cherry picked quotes.
Mr. Lin's timely reply to THIS thread makes a lot of sense to me.

I might gather a few more "ignore"s for this post or maybe even a Ban but it has to be asked... Is this thread motivated by something deeper than a "loss of knives to China"?
Should this thread even be allowed?

 

[Andy the Aussie]

Knowing @SpyderPhreak as I and many others here do I am quite confident he is certainly not motivated by a couple of Swamp Rat Wakis that are not at all uncommon. I think he is motivated by principle and honesty. But I do not profess to speak for him either.

 

[SpyderPhreak]

Knowing @SpyderPhreak as I and many others here do I am quite confident he is certainly not motivated by a couple of Swamp Rat Wakis that are not at all uncommon. I think he is motivated by principle and honesty. But I do not profess to speak for him either.

Well said Andy! Thanks!

Guys, I thought this was clear, I HAVE NO DOG IN THIS FIGHT!!! I have not done business with LIN, and I wouldn't out of principle. Please read more carefully.

The whole point of my titling this this with the PSA preface (Public Service Announcement, in case you don't know) was that this thread is meant to be a heads-up so folks here that might do research on their buyers can know who they're selling to (if you don't do this, you're asking for trouble...), and to know where their stuff is going since LIN doesn't disclose it unless you come out and ask him.

3. I do use a proxy address in US , but I do not hide it.

But I think I have no need to announce that to you.

Most seller have problem ship oversea,that is why I get US address.

And several times, some seller does claimed he do not ship to proxy address, only the buyer personal receiving, I cancel order and not lying.

that should the the conversation between me and seller, I think, not you!

As you can see in LIN's post above, he doesn't feel the need to disclose that he's using a proxy to anyone during the transaction. THIS NEEDS TO BE KNOWN!!! He may not hide the fact that he's using a proxy to ship overseas to China if asked, but he sure doesn't openly disclose the fact either, and bringing that point to light is the main point of this thread. I will likely close it soon, once LIN has a chance to respond to (or ignore) some questions.

As for any ulterior motivations I may have had to make this thread? The only one may be that as I see some of the AMAZING knives LIN purchases here taken out of the hands of our community, it actually bothers me. I shake my head, literally. When was the last time you saw a Chinese-based seller here trying to sell some of these knives back into our community? It hasn't happened that I'm aware of...

I actually enjoy our little community, and I'll stand up for it when I think it needs to be done. Some of you don't feel that way, and that's fine too. You probably won't still be here in 3-5 years. That's not meant to be an insult, it's just the way it is. Knife collecting isn't probably much of a hobby to you, more of a passing phase. Not that there's anything wrong with that, we'll enjoy your company while you're here, but that's probably why it isn't so personal to you. You might not get it, or think I'm crazy here (yes, I can hear your eyes rolling ), but there are a number of fairly tight-knit groups here, and folks in those groups that genuinely care about each other and have been here for 15 to almost 20 years.

I honestly feel for your situation Mr. Spyder Phreak. I do... I also understand your opinion. It's not difficult to relate to.

Sticking to the facts that are known is MUCH more productive, and civil in my most humble opinion.

My situation? WHAT situation??? See above... I've stuck to the facts where I've known them. My only assumption (and it's been duly noted) is what might happen to the knives upon arrival in China. LIN was asked, and did not provide an answer (and it's his right not to provide one), but I can't help but think he's helped at least one counterfeiter, knowingly or not, by taking all these knives to China.

Now I'm not a fan of proxy buying at all and wouldn't sell to someone after I found out they were using a proxy address. But a question to the op why out of the blue did this post come up? Did he in fact buy 2 of a knife you wanted and it pissed you off? I mean the link you posted was a year ago so it's not like he's here everyday buying knives or you would have more recent post to link. Or he is here everyday buying up knives and they have all went some what smooth or smooth and this is the problem post you found to whine about. Just sounding like a bitter post because you aren't happy about something other then the beloved knifes are goingto Chinese buyers. And then agian after reading lins response to this and the link he provided you broke a forum rule with your comment on the sales thread. You seem really bitter and I thin lin hit the nail on the head.

Not at all. I've seen most of the items he's purchased well before he bought them, and passed on them. But I'm later saddened when I see he's purchased them. You might say this issue has been festering for some time, nearly as long as LIN has been a member here. See explanation above. His buying habits were suspicious from the get-go. Myself and others initially thought he was a shill for the notorious banned flipper Liu Kang. It's just that I've just seen SO many really nice knives disappear into the black hole that is LIN (quite a few that I can't afford, lol). The link I provided to the fiasco with Bobby Branton was to highlight the issues with LIN using a proxy shipping address, and not disclosing that fact. And yeah, I might have broken a rule too. Sometimes it's hard to keep my mouth shut. Report the post if you feel it necessary. The seller probably already has. Sometimes we have to take a stand for what we feel is the right thing to do, even if it might break a rule. That thread was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I might gather a few more "ignore"s for this post or maybe even a Ban but it has to be asked... Is this thread motivated by something deeper than a "loss of knives to China"?

Should this thread even be allowed?

I might point out that you've made more than a few ignore lists yourself already, inserting yourself into the middle of conversations that you know nothing about. The mods have noticed too, just FYI. There's a mantra you might want to think about, "read more, post less". Just a little bit of friendly advice.

In case everyone missed it when I mentioned it the first two times, I discussed this issue with Spark (the site owner) back in March, and he approved me making this post. It was delayed on my part as LIN had slowed down his purchasing and I had a short hiatus from the forum since.

I'll address LIN's post in my next one.