Purchasing from lesser known makers

Danbo said:
Half the fun for me is finding great knives from the lesser known makers.
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I agree 100%.

Most of the people in here have more buying power than me, also those in say, the regular Blade Discussion section. Even when looking at Sebs and Strider, as opposed to Carsons and Mayos, everyone would like to have the Carson or Mayo, but maybe the Seb is at the top of their game. I think except for an SMF, I have Strider out of my system. Except for maybe some wood inlay Sebs, the Sebenza is out of my system. I have three camp knives on order from some well known and respected makers. Larry Nowicki next week, Scott Gossman in December, and Bob Dozier in April. All knives will be used to their peak. I was not in that position last year at this time. I also am getting knives from makers known on here, including EDC's from David Farmer, Butch Harner and Jim Rehrer. I am starting to look closer at folders for next year.

The camp knives are over a hundred bucks, the EDC's under a hundred. If you find a maker whose work you like, stick with him or her as you see fit. There is nothing wrong with variety, and if you help an up n comer, then so be it.
 
After reading the other posts,I find I must have did this all wrong.:foot:

I thought both Matt's were lesser known,Lamey and Roberts,
I included Craig Camerer,Lin Rhea and Don Hanson III in my post. :eek:
I realize all 5 makers I mentioned are very well known,
and very hot makers.

Sorry guys!! :)

Doug
 
On the buying "quality" products part of this discussion: Of course, we all want to be assured of quality. I think some of the established makers have gotten more into making pretty knives instead of making quality knives pretty. A few things:
I was talking not too long ago with a fairly well known custom maker, a master smith, who was saying that he really doesn't do a lot of forging on his individual blades, he does mostly stock removal from billets he has made. He makes, from what I have heard, good knives that he sells a lot of; they are definitely pretty. I don't want this type of knife.
I also recently heard a conversation between 2 well known mastersmiths discussing how they make knives. One was saying that the other was a fool for bothering to blue back his knives, because it is a time consuming step and "no buyer is going to know the difference or use a custom knife that hard"... that "it's all about making knives efficiently and getting them sold". The second one said "yes, but I would know and I believe in making the best knife I can". I want the second makers knives, I appreciate integrity even when I wouldn't know any better.
 
WyoNonSmith said:
On the buying "quality" products part of this discussion: Of course, we all want to be assured of quality. I think some of the established makers have gotten more into making pretty knives instead of making quality knives pretty.
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Some makers focused on the "pretty" rather than the "usability" right out of the gate. As long as you know what you are getting.....:rolleyes:(problem is, you don't always know what you are getting up front)

New makers are a crapshoot, plain and simple. Some go on to do amazing things(Lovett and Young, as an example, they were not quite on fire 5 years ago), some simply made great knives......and don't anymore. As always, you have to buy what you like, and be PREPARED to lose money on some.

Kevin, it doesn't mean that you have to take it in the ass, BUT if a buyer insists on doing the "friend of the maker thing", and the "I buy what I like thing" unless they are only friends with Fuegen, Fisk, and Hancock(inside joke here), there is some substantial risk involved. For me, and many others, like Danbo said, that is part of the fun.

If SHS can buy a knife for $100, use the snot out of it, and sell it for $75.00 down the line because the maker wound up tripling their prices over time, seems like a win/win all around.

Good topic.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Just for the record, I don't want any knives with snot... ;)

Oh yeah, the camp knives are a good way over a hundred bucks.
 
For me its always more about the knives themselves. Just like in dentistry, so it is in knife making. A dentist has a practice. Its referred to as a practice for a reason. Our knife shops are practices also the way I see it. Its what we do each time we work on a knife. We practice and hone our skills. Just like with a dentist some crowns come out exactly as the books say they should, and are so stand out they can't wait to show it off in their lectures to their peers. Others they know work and that it had some short fallings for whatever reasons but they just don't focus on those as much or worry since its a practice of shooting for the ideal and aiming high hoping you hit as close to the mark as humanly possible. This is no different in the art of knifemaking.

Doesn't matter the maker so much when you look at them this way because the knife speaks for itself. Just like with production companies we love and support, some bad apples get out the door but so do a lot of very exceptional ones. Oh its great to weigh your decision on maker or manufacturer loyalty and we all do it, but a good knife is a good knife. As Steven pointed out you can weigh that in the equation as long as you know what you will probably see from each named maker or business. Meaning if its pocket jewelry you want you shop here, if it s bare bones get after users you go here and so on.

I don't know about a lot of other makers but some days when you go to build a knife it almost feels like it built itself. It all just goes together so well and you almost get cocky thinking you are getting this thing really down after that absolutely perfect showing and reaching as close to ideal as you had hoped. Of course the next knife humbles you right quick and you soon realize you are after all human. Anyway, thats my take on it. For whatever its worth.

Great thread though. Good idea.

STR
 
WyoNonSmith said:
I also recently heard a conversation between 2 well known mastersmiths discussing how they make knives. One was saying that the other was a fool for bothering to blue back his knives, because it is a time consuming step and "no buyer is going to know the difference or use a custom knife that hard"... that "it's all about making knives efficiently and getting them sold". The second one said "yes, but I would know and I believe in making the best knife I can". I want the second makers knives, I appreciate integrity even when I wouldn't know any better.
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I agree 100%. Integrity is a must in the makers that I deal with, lesser known or well known.

Pretty is not something that interests me unless the fundamentals are there first. Engraving and carving has begun to appeal to me, but first the knife has to be right.
 
Not an art knife, but if you see a knife, in the under 1000 range that is meant to be used, do you guys use it? Do you tend to use knives from lesser known makers, but relegate those from cemented makers to the safe?
 
I tend to order users that are very basic. They don't have to have a high polish hand rubbed finish and can have Micarta or low priced wood handles. On fixed blades the sheaths can be very basic. These knives never cost so much that I am worried about using them.

No, I don't relegate the lesser known makers to the making of users.
 
silenthunterstudios said:
Not an art knife, but if you see a knife, in the under 1000 range that is meant to be used, do you guys use it? Do you tend to use knives from lesser known makers, but relegate those from cemented makers to the safe?
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Generally, my users would be from newer makers for cost reasons. There are some great values in Master Smith using knives to be had, though. Ed Caffrey's EBK and Burt Foster's Blue Collar come to mind. I have put my Blue Collar to significant use over time and it has served me well.

Roger
 
Knives are meant to be used but I do have knives in a box that I bought doubles of just to keep. All through my life when I found one model of a folder I liked I bought two, one to keep and one to use. If I loved it I often times bought three, sometimes one in different handle materials. I just did that with a 2001 Marbles tear drop buffalo easy opener model I have where I picked up two more, one in buffalo one in jigged bone. On that one I actually have three now of buffalo and the one jigged bone besides my carry knife in buffalo. Its one of my quirks. It actually started with shoes first because I'd get a pair of shoes or boots I really loved and when worn out I'd go to replace them and they no longer made them. Made me so mad that when I got a pair I found I loved I went back at the earliest convenience and got an extra pair for the closet. This carried over into knives early in life with the way companies discontinued models.

Those extra knives hardly ever get used. Sometimes though, there are exceptions, like when I lost my original 70s Buck Esquire in 440C and micarta and had to pull out one of the back ups from the safe.

I wish I could afford to do that with bigger more expensive items sometimes but not in this life I guess. :D

STR
 
I buy very few knives, or guns, that I don't intend to use.
I have a friend in OK that is on the gun maker lists that he recieves the same serial number of each limited edition shotgun from that company... he has 5 large gun safes FULL of these beautiful guns that never see the light of day and have never been shot. I guess he enjoys looking at them, but seeing beautiful engraving gets old for me.

I have another friend who inherited some guns from his father, some Drillings. He shoots them (well!!), just like his father did. He says that he will probably never be able to afford to replace them, and takes care of them. Just for grins, I started looking at what these guns would cost, and found that my friend was shooting a $10,000 gun and a $8,000 gun in the field.

Even something beautiful, and artlike, should be used for its intention. Paintings were meant to hang on the wall and be admired, guns and knives were meant to be used and admired in the field.
 
WyoNonSmith said:
I buy very few knives, or guns, that I don't intend to use......

Even something beautiful, and artlike, should be used for its intention. Paintings were meant to hang on the wall and be admired, guns and knives were meant to be used and admired in the field.
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That is your perspective, and it is a valid one. Obviously it works for you.

I might say that your perspective is shared to some degree with all of us, but is not all encompassing....many of us choose not to use a large degree of our knives, preferring to keep them in pristine state....that is our choice.

You pays your money, and you makes your choice.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
My three cents. About a year ago I started communicating with a "new" maker. We traded info, and he wound up making two knives for me; one his design and one mine. The quality, value received, and craftmanship was excellent. I commented (on this forum) that everyone should get acquainted with him before his prices and demand went up. His name? Our own NWA, Nick Allen. Everyone deserves a chance for their work to be seen. It's also nice to be able to buy a custom piece without wrecking the budget for the month. Bill.
 
Given all the shows, all the lists of custom knifemakers, all the ads in Blade, the variety of makers in the gallery sections of Blade and Knifeworld, and the fact there are knifemakers around the world, one must conclude that there is a boatload of knifemakers out there. Given this fact, then the majority of knifemakers are "lesser known makers" and the majority of buyers of custom knives, buy from "lesser known makers."
 
At first, I simply bought what appealed to me... And I still do... The difference being that now I know more about WHAT I'm buying and the difference between bucks spent and quality purchased... And I don't buy for an "INVESTMENT"! If I don't like it, I won't buy it simply 'cause it has so and so's name on it.

Yes, I do have the works of several of the aforementioned makers, but I not only have the works of several "unknowns", I also have several obscure factory pieces that I also am enamoured with... I don't expect to ever make a "profit" on my investments - they are simply for my viewing and using pleasure (yes, several ARE safe-queens, but I'd use 'em given the most absolute extreme needs! :D )

If I wanted to turn a profit on my investments, I'd buy stock or land, not steel, especially not expensive steel that can fluctuate so radically given the changing tastes, and legal environment, of our peculiar culture! (What would you all think of your collection now, if the US chose to follow the British example and make illegal all of our sharp, pointy toys??? :eek: :( )

And at this point, having met several now famous makers, and having visited my fair share of shows and hung out on this board for awhile... I would tend to think the majority of "collectors" are working class folk with little disposable income to lavish on steel. The bulk of collectors, I would wager, buy from "unknown" or lessor known makers, than the top 1% of the big time collectors spend on the Big Name makers... And then those modest collectors post a knife on BFC; some of the most frequent and knowledgable posters make comment on said knife, and Blade Mag contacts the maker and they submit a knife for review... And then you have another once "unknown" maker jump from obscurity to fame in a matter of months sometimes, rather than the years it took the first two or three generations of makers to reach the stars!

I buy what floats my boat and what I have the funds for... I take 'em home, lavish attention and care on them... Use 'em sometimes, maybe not... And then I'll either be forced to sell them as I grow old or I'll die and they'll pass somehow on to others... I guess I don't view myself as a collector so much as a caretaker... Hell, they will out last me, even the cheap ones! :D
 
brownshoe said:
Given all the shows, all the lists of custom knifemakers, all the ads in Blade, the variety of makers in the gallery sections of Blade and Knifeworld, and the fact there are knifemakers around the world, one must conclude that there is a boatload of knifemakers out there. Given this fact, then the majority of knifemakers are "lesser known makers" and the majority of buyers of custom knives, buy from "lesser known makers."
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I have enjoyed this very interesting thread, however the problem is that "lesser known makers" is a non-definable phrase and we will never agree as to who the "lesser known maker" is. So all that will result in the end is generalizations such as the above.
 
Kevin Jones said:
I have enjoyed this very interesting thread, however the problem is that "lesser known makers" is a non-definable phrase and we will never agree as to who the "lesser known maker" is. So all that will result in the end is generalizations such as the above.
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This is very true. Many makers stay away from forums like the plaque and have no idea of who is well known on forums vs who is well known from shows in a geographic area or from an organization. Many times these folks live in the same states and don't even know of each other but more often I think only rarely do people on the west coast know of whats truly going on over on the east coast except for the rare times many of them go to the big shows to see it.

Its a bit of a debate over who is well known and who is not at times, because one side of the country's big names may not be that big over at other areas on the other side. This speaks nothing about international makers. I mean someone well known that would be established on a forum in Germany may not even be known at all at a show here and a big show person could show up here new to the forums and no one would recognize the name at first even if the maker had 30 years time making knives over the biggest name here and was a truly trend setting big name maker over in Australia.

Peter Bald for example is really little talked about here in the states but mention him in Australia and everyone there recognizes his name. To a large extent it is like that for Ray Cover here where everyone here sees the knives made by this great artisan and buys them within minutes but in Australia he'd be a little known maker compared to here.

STR
 
One thing that has throughly amazed me since my participation on this forum is how so proud some are of proclaiming they do not buy knives for an INVESTMENT. Why is this?

Is anyone bothered by the fact that they have lost hundreds, maybe even thousands on their knives?

Is it the sames as say taking up golf and knowing that the enjoyment of the sport or hobby is going to cost you a lot of money?

Is there anything wrong with buying and collecting the knives that you want and love yet still breaking even or profiting when you sell to upgrade to others?

Are there actually collectors that buy knives they don't like just to latter sell for a profit?

Are there collectors that buy knives only because there's a certain maker's name on it, even though they may not like the particular knife?

Just curious? :confused:
 
Kevin Jones said:
One thing that has throughly amazed me since my participation on this forum is how so proud some are of proclaiming they do not buy knives for an INVESTMENT. Why is this?

Is anyone bothered by the fact that they have lost hundreds, maybe even thousands on their knives?

Is it the sames as say taking up golf and knowing that the enjoyment of the sport or hobby is going to cost you a lot of money?

Is there anything wrong with buying and collecting the knives that you want and love yet still breaking even or profiting when you sell to upgrade to others?

Are there actually collectors that buy knives they don't like just to latter sell for a profit?

Are there collectors that buy knives only because there's a certain maker's name on it, even though they may not like the particular knife?

Just curious? :confused:
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I think its related to hiding it from the wives for men! :D

I don't know about the rest of the married men out there but for years my wife would give me grief about new knife purchases each time I bought one. Years! I think she finally realized in my case it beats the hell out of sticking dollars in panties so she lets it slide now that we are old and well seasoned after years of training each other! :eek:

STR
 
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