Pussification of America - My Rant

[Quirt]

Nature deficient syndrome is alive and well in America. People are so far removed mentally and spiritually from an American self reliance mindset and are now so urbanized in-cultured or programmed to think that 911 is always 3 mins away, and the well stocked grocery store is just around the corner and LEOs will respond to your aid if trouble arises. There is no need to think, train, prepare, or live any differently. Nor is there any need too prepare our children to think differently. Oh and don't concern or prepare oneself or children as nothing evil ever happens in the remote wilderness, schools or at marathons. (Really? You carry a tournequit with you even in the city? Where does this need for self-care or self-rescue come from Quirt????) improvised Tourniquets literally saved lives in Boston!! Anyway, I digressed.

Comfort, entertainment, and convenience is now the norm in our culture and this drives most Americans after work activities and lifestyle which can counter wilderness living. We as a culture must have A/C, 120 v access and pizza deliveries.

So much so that hiking and camping are just extra activities rather than a way of life. People now camp in organized parks or take groomed trails. They will go to REI and buy a rainproof tent and spend a nite or four a year in the forest and consider themselves hard core. But getting wet or cold or waking up with a back ache from sleeping inside a hastily built debris shelter, learning from their mistakes, is not in the cards. Living in the wilderness or having a wilderness/self reliant mindset is fundamentally different and an odd mindset to most Americans including many of our brethren on this forum. It isn't right or wrong - it just is. Carrying a handgun or a few knives and/or really living in the wild or preparing oneself for the wild is a totally foreign construct.

 

[22-rimfire]

For the most part, kids need someone to lead them into these things and it needs to happen when they are young (pre-teen). Sure it is possible that they might take a liking to rural outdoor activities, but it is an interest that requires Dad or a close uncle to be involved to nurture the interest. Scouts is not enough.

Parents are more protective of their young children these days as a result of all the crap you hear and read about making kids prey.

 

[JuJu-]

I'm with ya O.P., its a sad state these days. To me personally its not just about camping but a way to get back to my roots, remember where I came from, and teaching my 3 little ones self reliance. Yes we have fun and learn essential skills along the way.

I have had similar conversations with neighbors freinds and family. You'd be surprised how many scoff at the idea of no electric, running water, or a fixed shelter. You would be lucky to get them in an RV let alone a tent or shelter.

I am happy knowing if my kids needed to, they atleast have some basics and are above in the bell curve. I am in no way a proffesional nor do I pretend to be but I would like to think if what we had to today was gone tomorrow, We'd have a fighting chance, and the time spent learning is something my kids and I can look back on with a big smile and agree it was fun.

As for carrying the tools you need with you in the woods well I believe its self explanatory. If you need them you have them, if you don't need them no big deal. What happens when the guy you are camping with needs a machete to cut a branch for something? If you didn't have it he would be using a rock or the spork he brought with him to maybe get it done. Not that it needs to be said but I will say it anyways, If you are in the middle of B.F.E. and need a tool you don't have, you are screwed. Nothing wrong with having the tools you might need and covering most of your bases. I've had to lend a tool more than a handful of times when camping to those who simply thought they would never need one only to find out they truly did.

Thats just my experiences, and the reasoning why I do what I do. It's worked for me so far.

Best, - J

 

[jskit]

Well said Brimstone. Well said.

 

[Morrow]

Hiking boots, fine.
Pistol? For camping? Oh...
Three knives? One of those BK's would've sufficed. You kind of did go overboard...

I don't know where you camp...or even if you do but we have bears and other critters I'd rather not face with a stick or knife. As to taking more than one knife.....I enjoy taking more gear than I need when out in the woods to test out. I don't think he went overboard at all.

 

[hollowdweller]

I grew up outdoors. And both of my now-grown kids were raised to enjoy the outdoors. My five year old granddaughter is coming from Idaho to visit me in a few weeks and I will be taking her canoeing, fishing and camping the same as I did my two kids. But I understand that for many families, because of lack of opportunity or interest, outdoor activities are just not a part of growing up. It has always been that way.

This is very true. One of my best friends growing up, lived 2 blocks over we did nearly everything together but swimming because he couldn't swim and hiking because his mom had instilled a fear in him of ticks and snakes.

I don't have any kids but go backpacking with my other friends sons often. But both are in their 20's now. They grew up in NJ but their dad is from WV and we spent a LOT of time in the woods in both NJ and WV.

Part of it is there's just more people now so there's less opportunities to have fun in the woods for anyone. Also there has been a move from rural areas to urban ones as the US manufacturing base was shipped overseas.

 

[Brian Andrews]

First off, good on you for spending so much time with your kids period! Extra bonus that it happens to be in the outdoors. With that in mind, I still think a few issues here are being confused.

There is no question that kids benefit from being in the outdoors. There is an excellent book on the topic called “Last Child in the Woods.”

It makes many good points and goes into much more detail than I could here. If you have kids, or are thinking about it…..check that book out.

So, we can agree that getting kids outdoors is beneficial.

I think the confusion comes in that you seem to be eluding to the point that you have to take your kids outdoors in order to be close to them. The point is you need to spend time with your kids. If a Dad sits on the couch and watches TV instead of devoting time with your kids, then shame on them. At that point, it doesn’t matter if you live in the city, in the country, or in the suburbs.

I bet you that just as many fathers in the country ignore their kids as fathers in the city. But, when you do actually do something with your kids, you are likely to do what is around you. If your son wants to do something, and you drive down the road and hit the lake fishing, then awesome! It that so much better than a guy that lives in the city, his son wants to do something, so they throw a baseball around? Great for that guy too! Shame on the guy who does his own thing, or just sits on the couch. Point being here, you seem to be saying that if you don’t spend time with your kids THE WAY I SPEND TIME WITH MY KIDS, then that is not cool. Just saying……

An interesting thing about guys is that we tend to bond with other guys through doing “stuff.” What stuff? Fishing, hunting, hiking, sports, etc. Two guys can go camping for a weekend, and never say more than a couple words, have a great time, and hang out. When you get home your wife will ask “What did you guys talk about?” Kind of funny, isn’t it? Guys need the actiivity for connection, and women need the conversation. Not right or wrong, just different.

I think it is worth pointing out here, because this is where we can take a bit of a cue from women. I have three kids, and I have been dragging them out into the woods since each one of them was 3 months old. I know you probably think I am exaggerating, but no joke. Camping, backpack carrier and hiking, etc. It was tough, but what’s the alternative? At that time, I felt that was what HAD to happen in order for me to be close to my kids…..spending time with them…..in the outdoors.

As time went on, I realized that I put a lot of time, energy and effort into planning, packing, organzing, driving, doing, etc. If I put even half that time directly into my kids, and into their interests, I could become much closer to my kids right in my own back yard, than following the illusion that I had to cart them all over the world in order to make that happen.

Now, I am not putting down going, doing and spending time in the outoors. In fact, I am taking my oldest to the Dominican Republic this summer so that we can spend some time together. But, I am just saying, being open to the possibility that the moments you have experienced, and the moments you are after can also happen elsewhere, and with different parenting styles.

The common theme here is not the outdoors. It is being a real man, thinking of your kids, and spending time them. You do that, and you can have your moments anywhere in the world, in any setting, city or country, at home or far away.

This whole thing reminds me of the movie Courageous. At the end, the main character Adam, gives a speech and these couple of lines are standing out to me:

“You can't fall asleep at the wheel, only to wake up on day and realize that your job or your hobbies have no eternal value, but the souls of your children do. Some men will hear this and agree with it but have no resolve to live it out. Instead they will live for themselves and waste the opportunity to leave a godly legacy for the next generation.”

If that quote inspires you at all, there is a book associated with the movie that has an incredible amount of information in it. It is called The Resolution for Men.

It is worth checking out. Personally, I think it should be required reading for Dads

As far as the pistol and three knives being overboard…….well maybe. I will catch a lot of flak for this, but ugly black beckers scream “wanna be Rambo.” If you want to use them and like them, that is fine. But, you just have to realize that will be a common reaction from both the uneducated (don’t know nothing about knives) and the educated (like me, who makes knives and will giggle when I see someone with a blade like that). Next is the setting. A campground? In tents, with other people sleeping 10 feet away from each other, a modern bath house, people dumping waste on the ground and burning trash in the firepit? Most “camping” is actually the opposite of what the outdoors should be and if you have a gun and three black knives on you (when they are obviously way overkill), then yeah…..expect some negative reactions. I am not saying don’t do it, because life is too short to please others. I am just saying…..look at it from their side. Now, if you just two tracked it for hours, or hiked in to the middle of nowhere, and brought hardware and minimal equipment, nobody would blink twice at what you brought. Problem here is it asking for an opinion. There is no answer, and you will get 1000 of them

I don’t think we have a problem with pussification. I think we have a problem with fathers being a real Dad! You are certainly doing it, but I took the time to post all this so you will be open to the idea that there are also other ways to do it.

I am sure I just ticked off a lot of people So flame away......

B

 

[Morrow]

I sure hope the pistol wasn't black...people would really have been freaked out. Black gun AND black knives....sends chills right up my spine.

 

[hollowdweller]

Nature deficient syndrome is alive and well in America. People are so far removed mentally and spiritually from an American self reliance mindset and are now so urbanized in-cultured or programmed to think that 911 is always 3 mins away, and the well stocked grocery store is just around the corner and LEOs will respond to your aid if trouble arises. .

"Nature Deficient Syndrome" that term hit home. I don't think it is 100% necessary to teach a kid how to survive in the woods and stuff like that.

However I DO think that people ARE less good citizens when they are deficient in the understanding of nature.

For instance I think people should be able to ID the vegetation in their local area. Not even for survival purposes but you often live ON a place not IN a place if you don't become aquainted with it. You should know the names of all the creeks and streams and where they go. What sort of animals live around you and where they live.

When people know and love the place they live, then they are less likely to OK a huge pipeline or might oppose tearing down a local woods to build another shopping mall. When they understand how everything works together they may oppose things that may provide short term economic benefit at the expense of the long term.

 

[panzertroop]

Agree 100% with the op. I tell people I am going camping and they look at me like have three eyeballs. Tell them I sleep in a hammock and there are no toilets where I go, the break down and cry like babies. We have become a soft nation.

 

[roadkill7205]

First off, good on you for spending so much time with your kids period! Extra bonus that it happens to be in the outdoors. With that in mind, I still think a few issues here are being confused.

...

I am sure I just ticked off a lot of people So flame away......

B

I love this post.

I'm not the type to tell someone else what up do, but I will say that for me personally, a handgun is a bad idea for the bush for a few reasons. One of them is that,if I'm bringing my extremely inquisitive daughter, then even with the safety training I had to take to get licensed, I still want the muzzle of my gun far enough away from the trigger that she can't take herself out if I have a momentary lapse or she does one of the damned Houdini tricks she does whenever we kid proof something.

I don't tend to take boom sticks into the bush much anyway, though when the FIL and I are at hunt camp in the off season we usually have a shottie with buckshot and slugs in case of a bear.

For knives, I don't like anything too tacticool, though I *do* like the 4.1 from Survive Knives. I'd say that's as far as I'd go down that route.

I lie: I have an LMF II, but it doesn't come to the bush.

But if taking a bunch of knives into the forest and having a great time working them over is part of your camp experience, then I've got your back; that part I understand only too well.

 

[NateReed]

I'm nearly 20 years old and see this every day. I was not raised in an outdoorsy family, but I joined scouts. My dad and I had some really great times there. In the past 2 years I have been so busy that I have not been able to get out nearly as much as I want. I have retained my skills and gained a lot of knowledge through this site and youtube, but it does not compare to actually getting out and doing stuff. Hopefully when I move out of California and into Wyoming I will have more opportunities to adventure

 

[MostMenAreRuthless]

This is an odd sort of thread from the OP. Essentially, he is asserting that you are a "pussy" (now that's a word not used very often and is certainly not in good taste in ANY capacity) if you don't go camping or fishing on a regular basis.

It is OK with you to mark your brother-in-law as a "pussy" because he is not as fond of the outdoors as you; however, on the other side of the coin--you take offense at being called "GI Joe" because you arm yourself to the hilt with a firearm and 3 blades to do some overnight camping with two children. Hypocrisy anyone?

There are many, many ways to properly raise children and not all of them must include earning an "outdoorsman merit badge."

Anyway, this thread rubbed me the wrong way and sounded too much like a NutnFancy rant for me to ignore it.

 

[fishshooter]

I don't know whether to call you a man or a masochist, but I couldn't manage to choke down even one single catfish, much less 22 of them.
I never understood why so many people crave such a nasty fish.
My hat is off to the OP for his intestinal fortitude and force of will.

-nate

All depends on what variety and the body of water they come out of.

 

[willseeyalater]

So my hunting trips were with my friends and their fathers. Which means that i got all the glory and none of the mess of cleaning the kill.
I've still never cleaned my own kill.

Take the next step and get your hands in on it next time someone has taken a deer. You learn by doing even if it means you are not comfortable with the reality of blood, grissel and grease. You can do it, ask them to show you and then TRY. The full circle of hunting is not complete without knowing how to take the gift of the animal and make it valued for the meat, hide and bones all of which are useful.

 

[sodak]

Brimstone, I agree with you 100%. Took my son shooting 2 weeks ago, his first time. He's 13, shot a Ruger .22 pistol and a Glock .40, no problem. He was surprised at how much fun he had, and how badly he can't wait to do it again.

He also enjoyed watching how long the flame was from my Casull, but I didn't let him try that...

 

[Bigfattyt]

Hiking boots, fine.
Pistol? For camping? Oh...
Three knives? One of those BK's would've sufficed. You kind of did go overboard...

Pistol for camping? You betcha!

A some one who frequently camps in Bear and Cougar country, I sure do.

In fact, even when I know I won't see anything bigger than coyotes, I still bring a pistol.....................because there might be contact with unsavory people.

If you find that "overboard" that is fine.

But you thinking it is "overboard" to bring a gun, and more than one knife does not make it so, and probably won't affect my opinion.

 

[Nullity]

What sort of pistol are yall killing bears with?
I hope it's at least a .44 magnum because otherwise, your ability to defend yourself against a bear is vastly overestimated.

The OP's post sounds less like "kids need more outdoor time" and more like "you're a crappy, wimpy father if you ain't a mountain man".
There's some good responses though.

 

[Shotgun]

I don't know where you camp...or even if you do but we have bears and other critters I'd rather not face with a stick or knife. As to taking more than one knife.....I enjoy taking more gear than I need when out in the woods to test out. I don't think he went overboard at all.

Depends on the eyes. To you(or me) it doesn't but to most people he did. Just carrying A knife is overboard in some circles.

I'm with Sideways though. Not being into the outdoors doesn't make you a pussy. Some people are into it and some aren't. And some who are don't have access like has been said. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[stabman]

Since around here a pistol when camping gets you a free ride to jail, a shotgun makes a good substitute.
Better for bears and every other critter as well.

And only 3 knives? Step it up man!