Queen Cutlery quality

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Maybe the problem is not with Queen and that's why they can "succeed" and stay in business. :)

Queen has already withstood a loss of talent when some of their key workers pulled out to start another company.

I see what you are saying but if they need to stop and regroup then so be it. Stop selling knives for such high prices that are clearly flawed, and not just in cosmetic ways. If you make a less superior knife than you used to adjust the price to reflect the change. We are not talking peanuts here. On top of that some folks are complaining of terrible to no communication. The easiest thing for a company to do is show that they are there for you and standby/care about their product. I can see why people are frustrated.
 
Maybe the problem is not with Queen and that's why they can "succeed" and stay in business. :)

Queen has already withstood a loss of talent when some of their key workers pulled out to start another company.

That "pullout " was nine years ago. More than enough time to replace and train and the workers. The problem DOES lie with Queen. Nobody else is making their knives.
 
Sad to see this happening at Queen. I have many late 90's and early 2000's Queens,S&M's and Queen-made contract knives that are very high quality knives. I hope they find a way to recover from their recent poor output. I'd sure hate to see the demise of one of this countries better cutlers.

One thing is certain though, the job facing them will be much harder if they don't work their behinds off to take care of their customer's problems and to at least communicate with a customer base that's pulling for them. I can put up with a lot of crap if I at least know that somebody is trying to make things right.
 
Like I said on page one, the knives I've gotten from Queen are great and they're a much better bang for the buck than GEC. Buying knives that are years old and then deciding that Queen should stop making knives and regroup after they've fixed those problems seems like an odd suggestion to me. My wife had a 1997 Ford Probe that had all kinds of problems. I don't think Ford should stop making cars now in order to address the issues with that Probe.

As for not being able to get a response from them, who are you emailing? They have a list of addresses on their site. There was a thread a little while ago where somebody was saying that they couldn't get a response. They asked how others were getting good customer service and they got referred to an email address for the proper person for their issues and all of a sudden their problems were solved. It's quite possible that your emails are going to the wrong person and that this is adding to their response times. Have you tried calling Queen? I'm just trying to offer some solutions that might help. I have had some issues trying to get answers from Canal Street Cutlery, so I understand the frustration here. As far as I see it, if you put an email address on the website the person responsible for that address should be staying on top of getting those emails responded to quickly. I gave up on Canal Street because they can't be bothered to respond to me, so I can't really fault somebody for giving up on Queen for the same reason.

On the topic of waiting a month to get a knife repaired, if you're not willing to wait a month you shouldn't send your knife in to any manufacturer for a repair. GEC and Case both have had reports from multiple people who waited multiple months to get a repaired knife back. Which company is it that is turning around repairs more quickly? Maybe CSC? I don't know. From what I have read it seems like this is an area where most knife companies could improve. I had a GEC with some problems and Chris was very honest in telling me that if I sent it in it would likely be a couple months before I got it back. They were willing to do the work for me, but I wasn't willing to wait that long. I ended up trading the knife off to somebody that was. Obviously, we as customers don't make quick turnaround for repairs a big enough priority. If we did we wouldn't see the same lame approach being taken by all the major players. I know that I personally have sent Queens and GECs back to dealers because of flaws. If the dealers have enough of that happening I'm sure they'll get word up the line and the policies will change. Until then I'll keep ordering from dealers that are willing to stand behind the knives that they sell me. It's really no different than any other purchase I make. If I purchase an item that comes out of the box with problems I go back to the store. If the item develops problems later on down the line I go to the manufacturer. The problems here are mostly things that I'd take up with the dealers and let them figure it out with the manufacturer.

The conversations I've had with the Daniels family have led me to believe that they know that they've had some rough spots, and they're working hard to get things back on track. They've largely succeeded. They bought a company that had big issues, and they've done a great job of fixing those. I have been very impressed with how they've taken responsibility for their mistakes, even if those mistakes were made before the Daniels family bought the company. They've done a great job of standing behind their product. The best thing about Queen is the people. Here you have a family that is passionate about traditional pocketknives to the point where they have risked their own financials to try to save a historic company from going under. Yeah there have been some bumps in the road. The other option is to let Queen go the way of Schrade and Camillus. I couldn't have more respect for the people that decided to do something to stop that from happening. They've even started a program where they give free knives to kids in order to ensure that future generations grow up with an appreciation for traditional pocket knives. I don't see any other company doing that.

Reading through this thread you'd think that Queen was having some kind of quality crisis right now. That couldn't be further from the truth. As people keep saying, all indications are that the 2015 knives are much improved over recent year's offerings. If you go into the purchase with the understanding that you're supporting a company that is still recovering from the mistakes of previous ownership you'll end up getting a great deal on a great knife that's backed by great people that are doing great things for the knife community. What more can you ask for? They might not yet be at GEC's level of consistency, but for the difference in price I am more than happy to send back an occasional knife. On the plus side, when you get a good one they are fantastic. They've even managed to solve the flush pin puzzle that's been stumping GEC for years. :D
 
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Like I said on page one, the knives I've gotten from Queen are great and they're a much better bang for the buck than GEC. Buying knives that are years old and then deciding that Queen should stop making knives and regroup after they've fixed those problems seems like an odd suggestion to me. My wife had a 1997 Ford Probe that had all kinds of problems. I don't think Ford should stop making cars now in order to address the issues with that Probe.

As for not being able to get a response from them, who are you emailing? They have a list of addresses on their site. There was a thread a little while ago where somebody was saying that they couldn't get a response. They asked how others were getting good customer service and they got referred to an email address for the proper person for their issues and all of a sudden their problems were solved. It's quite possible that your emails are going to the wrong person and that this is adding to their response times. Have you tried calling Queen? I'm just trying to offer some solutions that might help. I have had some issues trying to get answers from Canal Street Cutlery, so I understand the frustration here. As far as I see it, if you put an email address on the website the person responsible for that address should be staying on top of getting those emails responded to quickly. I gave up on Canal Street because they can't be bothered to respond to me, so I can't really fault somebody for giving up on Queen for the same reason.

On the topic of waiting a month to get a knife repaired, if you're not willing to wait a month you shouldn't send your knife in to any manufacturer for a repair. GEC and Case both have had reports from multiple people who waited multiple months to get a repaired knife back. Which company is it that is turning around repairs more quickly? Maybe CSC? I don't know. From what I have read it seems like this is an area where most knife companies could improve. I had a GEC with some problems and Chris was very honest in telling me that if I sent it in it would likely be a couple months before I got it back. They were willing to do the work for me, but I wasn't willing to wait that long. I ended up trading the knife off to somebody that was. Obviously, we as customers don't make quick turnaround for repairs a big enough priority. If we did we wouldn't see the same lame approach being taken by all the major players. I know that I personally have sent Queens and GECs back to dealers because of flaws. If the dealers have enough of that happening I'm sure they'll get word up the line and the policies will change. Until then I'll keep ordering from dealers that are willing to stand behind the knives that they sell me. It's really no different than any other purchase I make. If I purchase an item that cones out of the box with problems I go back to the store. If the item develops problems later on down the line I go to the manufacturer. The problems here are mostly things that I'd take up with the dealers and let them figure it out with the manufacturer.

The conversations I've had with the Daniels family has led me to believe that they know that they've had some rough spots, and they're working hard to get things back on track. They've largely succeeded. They bought a company that had big issues, and they've done a great job of fixing those. I have been very impressed with how they've taken responsibility for their mistakes, even if those mistakes were made before the Daniels family bought the company. They've done a great job of standing behind their product. The best thing about Queen is the people. Here you have a family that is passionate about traditional pocketknives to the point where they have risked their own financials to try to save a historic company from going under. Yeah there have been some bumps in the road. The other option is to let Queen go the way of Schrade and Camillus. I couldn't have more respect for the people that decided to do something to stop that from happening. They've even started a program where they give free knives to kids in order to ensure that future generations grow up with an appreciation for traditional pocket knives. I don't see any other company doing that.

Reading through this thread you'd think that Queen was having some kind of quality crisis right now. That couldn't be further from the truth. As people keep saying, all indications are that the 2015 knives are much improved over recent year's offerings. If you go into the purchase with the understanding that you're supporting a company that is still recovering from the mistakes of previous ownership you'll end up getting a great deal on a great knife that's backed by great people that are doing great things for the knife community. What more can you ask for? They might not yet be at GEC's level of consistency, but for the difference in price I am more than happy to send back an occasional knife. On the plus side, when you get a good one they are fantastic. They've even managed to solve the flush pin puzzle that's been stumping GEC for years. :D
Great post, Cory. Thanks for taking the time to craft a well thought out and well presented viewpoint.
 
I emailed Sue Vincent, who is listed on their website as the repairs contact. I started the thread you are referring to and asked that it was closed after receiving my knife back. No response to my email was ever received, but I didn't see a point in emailing again at that point.

Not sure I understand the 1997 Ford probe comparison. The knife I purchased most recently from them was a brand new knife made in 2013. Did the same people not own the company two years ago? Is there s reason I would assume they suddenly improved this year? That is cool that they are giving kids knives. I just hope the quality isn't so low that it turns the kids off from knives.

My only other warranty experience on a knife was with benchmade. They earned a customer for life. Can't day the same for queen.

Finally, not sure I understand your price comparison with GEC. Most nice GEC knives I've bought were between $80-100. The two much lower quality S&M's were around $120. ($70 for the EDC version with no warranty and cosmetic flaws)
 
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As I mentioned in an earlier response in this thread I purchased 4 S&M knives in the past year, all we're new models. All four had issues, including significant blade wobble and hitting the liner. I paid around $100 for three of the patterns and $209 for one ( mammoth ivory scales). So prices comparable to GEC. Two I returned to the dealer and had them hand pick an acceptable replacement the other two were sent to Queen for repair. I knew it would take awhile for the repair ( it took about two months) but both knives were repaired without a problem. Recently a dealer on this forum, Knifeswapper, instituted a "grading" scale ( A through E) on new productions from Queen due to inconsistencies in quality. This tells me that quality issues still exist, even with new patterns. I hope they can develop some consistency in quality since I really like a lot of their patterns, but for now I am not going to purchase unless I can inspect before buying.
 
Quote Brownshoe: "Maybe the problem is not with Queen"
You are implying that the problem is overly fussy customers. I cannot see any other way to interpret your statement.
The issues that various members here have had with recent Queen knives are significant, not minor. These knives should not have left the factory in the condition they did and if just an occasional one did, then Queen should reply to emails and fix the knife promptly.
But, nonetheless we do want Queen to 'get it right', consistently. Cory Hess' eloquent post is a good example of this desire. However Queen's problems have been ongoing for years now and the time has come to stop making excuses for the unfit knives that they continue to sell and for their all but absent customer service.
I cannot think of any other manufacturer of any type of goods in which such poor workmanship would be tolerated by their customers. It is time to get honest and admit and accept the facts: Queen's product and service are unacceptably bad.
kj
 
Reading through this thread you'd think that Queen was having some kind of quality crisis right now.

Cory, the only Queen knives with which I have had quality issues are recent knives made in 2014 or 2015. Moreover, Mike at Collector Knives says he has had to return multiple recently manufactured knives to Queen. That makes the problem broader in scope than the couple of knives I have bought. So, yes, in my experience, the problem is current.
 
I mean let me say this, any pocket knife over $45 better be on point, in fact mass or foreign produced knives are pretty on point, so when jumping the shark into the tier of $95-125 for a 3-4inch inch pocket knife it BETTER be right, as that's what I am paying extra for, the quality in craftsmanship

My experience with the Moore Maker I had which were made by Queen for ever has steered me away from those knives, and the attitude of the Moore guys was much like some of you here, like well, you know, at that price range ($95 !!!) well you kinda get what you pay for, they are not always perfect, Yada Yada....

Ok, $95 and I got a knife with a weak spring and a blade the wobbles !!

Yea, I am gonna buy a Case for half or a Chinese made Camillus or Schrade for a quarter of the price then if that's how it is
 
I think it is absurd that a dealer has to give new production knives a grade! That is Queen's job and it is called "QUALITY CONTROL". I am a project manager working for the USN and Marines. I manage several aircraft repair centers and deal with manufactures all day, every day. I deal in avionics and aircraft maintenance. It is all about quality control. No exceptions. No matter what compelling argument, although well written and thought out, you make here If I pay for a product I expect what is advertised. Also, I do feel that if they cannot make what they charge for and advertise then they need to think about regrouping. Even if they need to shutdown for a few. if they do not regroup and fix the issues and reply to customers that decision may be taken out of their hands. Just my opinion. I am glad you got some great Queen knives. I wish it were the same for me. I just spent over 400.00 on three knives and ALL of them pissed me off straight out of the box. This is not good business. I will say that I got a speedy email reply!
 
Great post, Cory. Thanks for taking the time to craft a well thought out and well presented viewpoint.

While they may not be as well crafted or as well presented, the several customer complaints posted here are none the less: A. Real, and B. The responsibility of Queen Cutlery.
 
While they may not be as well crafted or as well presented, the several customer complaints posted here are none the less: A. Real, and B. The responsibility of Queen Cutlery.

I'm not arguing that. If it's as bad as it appears to be and they want to continue to have a business, they'll need to make some changes.
 
Judging by the prices you guys are quoting it sounds like you're mostly buying Schatt & Morgan. It's quite possible that that line is having issues whereas the Queen line has been better. I don't buy Schatt & Morgan, as they seem to be mostly stainless and I don't care for stainless. A quick glance at some of our member dealers shows I can buy a Queen trapper for $61 whereas a GEC will cost me $84 and up, a Queen large stockman can be had for $68 and a GEC for $100, a single blade Mountain Man is $64 while a single blade 23 is north of $100. Those are the price differences that I'm seeing. It's a pretty substantial gap, and I'm still seeing Queen get things right that GEC can't like the flush pins and GEC's tendency to have the blades sit too high. I'm not saying that they're perfect, but for the price they do very well.

Crowemag, who did you email at Queen? tdkfm is saying that he didn't get a reply from Sue Vincent, and I have emailed her and not gotten a response myself. It would be good to know which email address got a speedy response, so that future issues can be avoided.

The Schatt & Morgan line could very well still be using parts that were manufactured before the Daniels showed up. It was reported that they had said that one of the things that was slowing down their turnaround was the fact that when they bought the company they had a lot of inventory of parts that were already manufactured that they had to go through. These parts weren't necessarily up to the new standards that the Daniels were putting in place, but they had to run with what they had to stay afloat. This is pure speculation on my part. I'm just trying to understand why one line would be dramatically improved and another wouldn't.

On that note, here is a quote from another dealer that stocks both GECs and Queens.
Knife sales have been great. The interest in Queen and the Schatt & Morgan line has been steadily increasing and the 2015 releases are really being well received. I’ve seen the quality radically improve and more importantly, my customers say they’re noticing as well. Another comment has been that Queen is getting better at putting a sharp edge on their blades and its much better then the competition. I still can’t start using a traditional folder without putting my own personal touch on the edge, but I agree that Queen’s has really upped their game.

I've heard this sentiment from a couple of dealers along with one saying that people have been so happy with their Queens this year that he's actually selling more Queens than GECs for the first time. I've also spoken to a couple of dealers that have echoed Mike's reports of Queens coming in with pretty wild fluctuations in quality. Seems like dealers are having different experiences just like us collectors are. I can't really guess on why that's happening. I trust that the dealers are shooting me straight, as I don't see a reason for them to try to talk me out of a $100 knife and into a $70 knife.

My experience is that I can get three Queens for the price of two GECs. If I get a lemon I can send it back to the dealer for a replacement and still be up a knife. With my small sample size I haven't noticed a significant difference between the number of Queens that I've been unhappy with and the number of GECs I've been unhappy with. Maybe I've just been extremely lucky. Maybe I interact with the dealers more than most and therefore they're handpicking better knives for me. I don't know what the reason is, but I've been very happy with the Queens I've been getting this year. I'm sorry that everybody hasn't had the same experiences I have.
 
Judging by the prices you guys are quoting it sounds like you're mostly buying Schatt & Morgan. It's quite possible that that line is having issues whereas the Queen line has been better. I don't buy Schatt & Morgan, as they seem to be mostly stainless and I don't care for stainless. A quick glance at some of our member dealers shows I can buy a Queen trapper for $61 whereas a GEC will cost me $84 and up, a Queen large stockman can be had for $68 and a GEC for $100, a single blade Mountain Man is $64 while a single blade 23 is north of $100. Those are the price differences that I'm seeing. It's a pretty substantial gap, and I'm still seeing Queen get things right that GEC can't like the flush pins and GEC's tendency to have the blades sit too high. I'm not saying that they're perfect, but for the price they do very well.

Crowemag, who did you email at Queen? tdkfm is saying that he didn't get a reply from Sue Vincent, and I have emailed her and not gotten a response myself. It would be good to know which email address got a speedy response, so that future issues can be avoided.

The Schatt & Morgan line could very well still be using parts that were manufactured before the Daniels showed up. It was reported that they had said that one of the things that was slowing down their turnaround was the fact that when they bought the company they had a lot of inventory of parts that were already manufactured that they had to go through. These parts weren't necessarily up to the new standards that the Daniels were putting in place, but they had to run with what they had to stay afloat. This is pure speculation on my part. I'm just trying to understand why one line would be dramatically improved and another wouldn't.

On that note, here is a quote from another dealer that stocks both GECs and Queens.


I've heard this sentiment from a couple of dealers along with one saying that people have been so happy with their Queens this year that he's actually selling more Queens than GECs for the first time. I've also spoken to a couple of dealers that have echoed Mike's reports of Queens coming in with pretty wild fluctuations in quality. Seems like dealers are having different experiences just like us collectors are. I can't really guess on why that's happening. I trust that the dealers are shooting me straight, as I don't see a reason for them to try to talk me out of a $100 knife and into a $70 knife.

My experience is that I can get three Queens for the price of two GECs. If I get a lemon I can send it back to the dealer for a replacement and still be up a knife. With my small sample size I haven't noticed a significant difference between the number of Queens that I've been unhappy with and the number of GECs I've been unhappy with. Maybe I've just been extremely lucky. Maybe I interact with the dealers more than most and therefore they're handpicking better knives for me. I don't know what the reason is, but I've been very happy with the Queens I've been getting this year. I'm sorry that everybody hasn't had the same experiences I have.

rdaniels@queencutlery.com
and sue Vincent as well. R Daniels replied to me.
 
I thought S&M file and wire was the top of the line for queen. That's what I have purchased. Maybe I should have stuck to their lower line stuff. I understand if they are using parts from before the company was purchased, but the $120 for the knife is going to the new owner, so just blaming the previous owners for low quality is pretty poor practice.
 
Quote Brownshoe: "Maybe the problem is not with Queen"
You are implying that the problem is overly fussy customers. I cannot see any other way to interpret your statement.
The issues that various members here have had with recent Queen knives are significant, not minor. These knives should not have left the factory in the condition they did and if just an occasional one did, then Queen should reply to emails and fix the knife promptly.
But, nonetheless we do want Queen to 'get it right', consistently. Cory Hess' eloquent post is a good example of this desire. However Queen's problems have been ongoing for years now and the time has come to stop making excuses for the unfit knives that they continue to sell and for their all but absent customer service.
I cannot think of any other manufacturer of any type of goods in which such poor workmanship would be tolerated by their customers. It is time to get honest and admit and accept the facts: Queen's product and service are unacceptably bad.
kj

Sure the problem is fussy customers and internet crowd mentality creating over blown expectations. Every group of humans likes a whipping boy. On this forum it used to be Case.

The dealers quoted in this thread make their living off those fussy people, that's why they grade their Queens and talk about "issues". If Queen is so bad, why don't they drop the firm? One internet purveyor sells the full GEC line, with a few queens on the side, every time he talks about problems with Queen, he drives more customers to his huge GEC line. Classic sales technique. In the past it was done on the store floor, now it is public on the forums.

Again, ever wonder why those dealers keep selling the Queens? With one dealer you can see his customers are so picky, you cannot get a refund, just store credit minus a "restocking" fee. Grading a knife is warning an overly picky customer and also a classic sales technique..."well you were warned". Ever wonder why some "friendly gentleman" finds the need to charge a % restocking fee...it is to maximize profit when you have a customer base with overblow expectations of "quality". Another classic mail order sales technique.

Now in the world outside of this forum, after 25 years, in the last couple of years Queens have made it to gun shows in my area, but not GEC or Bear. Last show, I had about 6 queens in hand, and None had flaws that were unreasonable for the price.
 
I personally have no agenda or desire to steer anyone to another brand for my benefit. I just expect that a $100+ knife at least be the quality of knives costing half as much. I guess expecting more quality in exchange for more money makes me fussy. I think we are arguing in circles at this point. Glad to hear a good variety of experiences here though.
 
I have been in this game for some time. I love the hobby, but even at 47yrs old, feel too old to tiptoe around issues. Some teenage character on "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" when giving advice said (paraphrase) when on a date - "Always act like where you are at is the best place in the world to be at that time". I think we see a little of that from time to time. If you just bought a few thousand dollars worth of stock from a maker, your natural salesman instinct is to get on your soapbox and praise the new pretty. The problem is that eventually people buy the knives and hold them in their hand. If you put a sales pitch on a mutt, your credibility has suffered a ding with that customer. Why? We all want every domestic maker to be wildly successful. But do we want to stake our own reputation on what a supplier is/is not doing correctly? Most times you see praise where praise is deserved, but how does the customer know the difference between an exceptional product or someone needing to move stock before it actually gets some customer reviews? Even the greatest customer service can't continually apologize for the knife that should not have been sent out in the first place.

A dealers goal should be to provide any run of knives at a value. It is not worth $100 just because GEC made it; nor worth just $50 because Case made it. Set a percentage that is a value to the customer but you can still stay in business. If there are issues that make it worth less, in your opinion, then start moving the price south. Even selling a knife at a loss, if the value scale requires it, is better than walking away from a brand or paying to send knives back then wait for a credit/repair. There will come a point where you can't come in at break-even just to carry a brand; but hopefully the market is dictating the required improvement to the factory in the meantime.

Many think I have some brand loyalty here or there. But a resellers goal should be simple - to provide a great product at a great value. Few collectors handle as many knives as the average dealer, so you should be able to expect and honest evaluation. In my opinion Case made the best American slipjoint up to the late 1980's; Queen up to the mid 2000's; and GEC today. At one time or another I have praised/chastised them all. But, just as there are Ford folks and Chevy folks, we don't all have exactly the same tastes / criteria.
 
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