Question About Wavy or Crinkled Pattern in Blade

@ PURPLEDC, my point was that it is only a presumption that Shirogorov used the lock without permission. I have never seen anything definitive from any of the principal's involved that would answer that question. I was also trying to draw a distinction between trademark and patent and who holds what. Not that any infringement is justified or excusable. If Shirogorov has not used the term AXIS, then there is no trademark infringement.
It is also unclear who holds the right to grant use of the mechanism. Did McH & W grant exclusivity to BMK, does BMK have the right to grant use of the lock to another, or does MCH & W retain the sole right to grant subsequent licenses for use?
To me, there are just to many unknowns to presume Shirogorov "stole" the lock. Some, like Craytab, think that in the absence of crediting the patent holders, presumption of infringement is warranted, as that is "usually the case" (my paraphrase). Not a view I share.
 
A couple things:

The AXIS lock patent was modified, re-applied for, and granted in 2010 (I think that was the year). If there wasn't a current patent on the design I think, and hope, we would see companies using the lock or some variation that would have violated the original patent. That's why we have patents and they expire after a reasonable time, for companies to benefit monetarily from the invention and then for other companies the chance to use and hopefully advance the technology.

Also, Lionsteel is not using an AXIS lock or variation to my knowledge. They have something that looks similar in the function of a sliding bar, but from what I remember it's essentially a back lock that uses the sliding bar to unlock it instead of depressing a point along the spine and making it more of a one hand lock.

Just thought I would point that out.

A clone is still stealing and an attempt to deceive people and a crappy thing to do and should not be rewarded with money.
 
Report on Chinese [clone - imitation - replica - FAKE]. After two days of carrying around and using it, I'm still impressed. Blade centered, opens and closes easily, blade seems good and so far holds its edge very well. Very little play in the blade when open -- tho this depends on how snug the pivot bolt is.

I did not cut wood with it -- wouldn't use a long-bladed folder to do that. Did not bang it across a 2X4 to see if the lock would fail. The only likely failures this knife would have is a broken spring in the axis lock and wear on the bronze washers (and they are bronze as is the original; visible when looking at the joint).

Only complaint is the clip. This is a lefty's knife. The clip has a high bump in it. There is one position only for the clip, and if one is right-handed that clip rubs against the palm below the middle two fingers. After two days my right hand is tender there. In the Youtube viddie of the original AUS8 Tabargan the clip is shown even higher on spacers, but the scales are flat not gently rounded as these are and so might not rub as much. (These scales are not like the ones on the early Tabargan, being rounded not flat and being less like G10.

The clip has only one position on this knife and I think on the original. I like to carry a clip knife not in my pocket but on the top of my pants, where when I reach for it my thumb will fall on the thumb stud, not possible with a clip down on the bottom of the knife. With axis locks it is not an option.

What I said applies to this knife. For all I know there may be a dozen different makers of "clone" knives scattered across China, and without branding we have no idea who makes what.

Knives like this challenge both conscience and the collector's self image. One pays big bucks for knives touted as expensive and worth it and then along come counterfeits or look-alikes about as good as the expensive original for 1/10 to 1/50 the cost, and they dare to imitate the ones we paid hundreds of dollars for! Big blow to the collector's self-image and pride; and brings up the question of just who is taking advantage of whom.

Am I going to lose sleep out of guilt? No, but I am one who thinks that Snowden and Manning were heroes and that drug companies that charge a ton of money for their patented drugs are bad guys.
 
MastaSlice said:
Knives like this challenge both conscience and the collector's self image. One pays big bucks for knives touted as expensive and worth it and then along come counterfeits or look-alikes about as good as the expensive original for 1/10 to 1/50 the cost, and they dare to imitate the ones we paid hundreds of dollars for! Big blow to the collector's self-image and pride; and brings up the question of just who is taking advantage of whom.
Click to expand...
As a (quality and respectable) knife user, I don't think that this holds any water.

Why would the quality of a counterfeit be a blow to My self image or Conscience?
- I know I have a knife made by an honest company that pays a livable wage and didn't outright steal the design.

No one here has touted one of their knives, none of us tried to sell you our knives...
- If you want to buy a quality knife from a quality company I can direct you to the exchange.

Not one counterfeit that I have seen is as good as the original.
- How are we supposed to believe this from the person who can't buy the original version of the knife he wants?

You speaking of pride is akin to a slug speaking about salt. The slug knows nothing of the Virtues that salt retains, even when one of them is the slugs demise.
- You do not get to speak of pride other than the acknowledgement of your incapability of having any, in regards to knife purchases and your outright support of thieves and stealing.

Don't go calling the police if your house gets broken into, it is just karma doing its thing.
 
Last edited:
I love the statement that says.......the clone is as good as the original. I just love that.
Please!
 
palonej said:
I love the statement that says.......the clone is as good as the original. I just love that.
Please!
Click to expand...

If he believes that, then all he is Really saying is that he is willing to sell his beliefs for a dime and has no sense of rectitude.
And we are supposed to trust this person?
 
No way William!
Total crock that will convince himself that it's true.
Integrity?? Nope
 
ChazzyP said:
@ PURPLEDC, my point was that it is only a presumption that Shirogorov used the lock without permission. I have never seen anything definitive from any of the principal's involved that would answer that question. I was also trying to draw a distinction between trademark and patent and who holds what. Not that any infringement is justified or excusable. If Shirogorov has not used the term AXIS, then there is no trademark infringement.
It is also unclear who holds the right to grant use of the mechanism. Did McH & W grant exclusivity to BMK, does BMK have the right to grant use of the lock to another, or does MCH & W retain the sole right to grant subsequent licenses for use?
To me, there are just to many unknowns to presume Shirogorov "stole" the lock. Some, like Craytab, think that in the absence of crediting the patent holders, presumption of infringement is warranted, as that is "usually the case" (my paraphrase). Not a view I share.
Click to expand...

From what i have read the patent was issued to mchenry and williams and they gave benchmade exclusive license of which benchmade paid them the rights for. Benchmade trademarked the term axis lock so not only can people not use it because of their exclusive license but also cannot call a lock an axis lock. The patent supposedly expired this past june of which both shirogorov and lionsteels version of the lock preceed that date. Due to the exclusive license and the fact shiro doesnt need to get permission as long as they dont sell them here and that they in fact dont sell them here is a bit overwhelming to me. And if they had worked out a deal i do believe it would have been made clear that credit should be given.


FlaMtnBkr said:
A couple things:

The AXIS lock patent was modified, re-applied for, and granted in 2010 (I think that was the year). If there wasn't a current patent on the design I think, and hope, we would see companies using the lock or some variation that would have violated the original patent. That's why we have patents and they expire after a reasonable time, for companies to benefit monetarily from the invention and then for other companies the chance to use and hopefully advance the technology.

Also, Lionsteel is not using an AXIS lock or variation to my knowledge. They have something that looks similar in the function of a sliding bar, but from what I remember it's essentially a back lock that uses the sliding bar to unlock it instead of depressing a point along the spine and making it more of a one hand lock.

Just thought I would point that out.

A clone is still stealing and an attempt to deceive people and a crappy thing to do and should not be rewarded with money.
Click to expand...

I disagree that clones in general are stealing. At least the law doesnt see it that way. There is a reason the shape and overall look of a knife cant be protected by law. And if i were to say cloning is wrong on all levels then quite a few makers got their start the wrong way by replicating the work of scagal and loveless.
 
Last edited:
NJBillK said:
As a (quality and respectable) knife user, I don't think that this holds any water.

Why would the quality of a counterfeit be a blow to My self image or Conscience?
- I know I have a knife made by an honest company that pays a livable wage and didn't outright steal the design.

No one here has touted one of their knives, none of us tried to sell you our knives...
- If you want to buy a quality knife from a quality company I can direct you to the exchange.

Not one counterfeit that I have seen is as good as the original.
- How are we supposed to believe this from the person who can't buy the original version of the knife he wants?

You speaking of pride is akin to a slug speaking about salt. The slug knows nothing of the Virtues that salt retains, even when one of them is the slugs demise.
- You do not get to speak of pride other than the acknowledgement of your incapability of having any, in regards to knife purchases and your outright support of thieves and stealing.

Don't go calling the police if your house gets broken into, it is just karma doing its thing.
Click to expand...

I really love the slug analogy.
VERY apropos in this case.

The kid doesn't own a Shiro, but really wants one. So he buys a counterfeit and BS's himself into how it's equal to a knife which he has probably never even held, let alone used. My question is why is he slinging the BS on us? Especially after almost every poster on this thread made it abundantly clear what our feelings are about such crap?

MastaSlice,
You bought a counterfeit knife that is stealing from another company, because you can't afford the original product and refused to save up for it. That's on you.
You like it? Good for you.
Please stop trying to justify your purchase to those that know better. Especially here, where there are rules in place that discourage such behavior.
I truly hope that you eventually purchase that original Shiro. Only then will you realize how foolish your whole stance on this subject is.

Have a nice day :)
Dave
 
Maybe it blew up Fang!!

What gets me is when these guys claim the clone or counterfeit is just about as good as the original..........when they never even saw an original.
I'm guessing troll post.
Joe
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top