Questions about gun safety

H

hikeeba

Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
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First off, I apologize for putting this in the W&SS forum, but I wasn't sure where esle to put it here on BF. I thought I'd put it in this forum because:

- I spend most of my time on BF here
- I know there are plenty of firearms-saavy folks here

My situation: I work with a 24 y/o male who is extremely interested in guns and shooting. He has stated that he wants to become a LEO, and claims he has an application in with a local municipality, although he has taken any classes pertaining to the field. A few weeks ago, I would have sworn he had a gun or guns by the way he talked. There were some things in our conversations that did make me wonder about however. Last week Thursday, he admitted that he didn't own a gun, and has never fired a real gun. He now knows that firearms are a field of interest to me, and is now asking me to take him with me the next time I go shooting.

He's a good guy and all, but I'd say quite immature in some ways. His attention flits from one topic to another quite rapidly. I would say the gun thing of recent weeks has been the topic he has stayed on the longest.

Bottom line: I'd really like to help him out, but quite honestly, I would be scared to death to take him to a range. I had suggested he maybe buy an airsoft to practice trigger discipline and to get the feel of something in his hands. I also suggested he look into taking a class, but he hasn't expressed an interest in that so much, other than looking into local DNR offerings, to which he says, "I'm not interested in hunting." This morning I said I'd talk to my buddies this week and try to find a class or other direction for him.

What else can/should I do? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks to all,
Marc


Side note: He keeps saying 40mm instead .40 caliber.
 
A lot of the gun shops around here offer basic pistol courses, I would check around in your area and see if you can find something of that nature. If you decide to take him to the range I would suggest taking revolvers to start him with, a lot of newbies can't seem to grasp that an autoloader is ready to fire again after each round with just a light squeeze on the trigger. Also run him through drills where you fire one round take your finger off the trigger make the gun safe lower the pistol then raise the pistol, remove the safety and fire one more round. Beat in to him muzzle control at all times. Chris
 
40mm??? those damm hand-cannons!! :eek:

When I was younger I was more encouraging of others, but, nowadays I find myself steering clear of making suggestions and trying to sway someone's decision making process, especially when it comes to firearms.

Like this:

-If he goes out on his own, and buys a pistol, then I would talk to him about safety, training/courses, and associations that would support his choice and his safety.

-I wouldn't (before the fact) try to actively influence his decision to buy.

Owning firearms is the ultimate in personal responsibility, and it becomes hard to judge people, unless you have really known them for a long time.

There are far reaching things to consider. Does he have a drinking problem? Does he use illegal drugs? does he have any past mental or medical problems?
These are things that, as a work acquaintance, we may not have a good feel for. That's why I don't like taking an active role in "encouraging" run of the mill people to own firearms.

Bottom line, I like to keep that kind of thing at arms length, hopefully I have given enough background and thought so that you can see why.
 
I am a certified NRA Instructor in all the disciplines. As such, I am qualified to conduct a beginners class in firearms for such an individual. I would suggest you contact the NRA and find my counterpart (an NRA Instructor) in your area and have your friend enroll in a basic firearms course. This course has nothing to do with hunting and is a basic introduction to firearms.
 
I started my kids with pellet rifles, single shot with only a couple of pumps. Today I wouldn't hesitate to start someone like this with airsoft if I didn't think I could trust them with pellet rifles. I want to know if he can maintain proper muzzle control and I don't want to risk any problems. If he can do it with rifles he gets to move onto pellet pistols.

Personally, I get a bad feeling from your descriptions. I would point him to a certified NRA instructor. Tell him you don't feel qualified to teach but if he passes the course you would be glad to take him out.

Just my $.02,
KR
 
Your alarm bells are going off, and setting ours ringing too. As a Sportsmen Ed. instructor I would start off with classroom time before we ever hit the range and then it would be single shot .22lr rifles until I was comfortable. It seems to me your gut has already told you the answer and you are just looking for reassurance.

BTW: You can also tell the guy that any LE firearms instructor would rather have someone with no experience than someone who has already taught himself the wrong way to do things. And every dept. I have worked with has a different idea on the "right" way of doing things.
 
Eyegor said:
Your alarm bells are going off, and setting ours ringing too. As a Sportsmen Ed. instructor I would start off with classroom time before we ever hit the range and then it would be single shot .22lr rifles until I was comfortable. It seems to me your gut has already told you the answer and you are just looking for reassurance.

BTW: You can also tell the guy that any LE firearms instructor would rather have someone with no experience than someone who has already taught himself the wrong way to do things. And every dept. I have worked with has a different idea on the "right" way of doing things.
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I totally agree, there is no way I would allow him to touch a loaded weapon. He may try and impress you with his (total lack of) perceived gun knowledge. I see danger.
 
willowdog said:
I am a certified NRA Instructor in all the disciplines. As such, I am qualified to conduct a beginners class in firearms for such an individual. I would suggest you contact the NRA and find my counterpart (an NRA Instructor) in your area and have your friend enroll in a basic firearms course. This course has nothing to do with hunting and is a basic introduction to firearms.
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Bingo!

I would simply that that I wasn't comfortable, and have no experience in, instructing other people at this time. A qualified, ideally NRA-certified, instructor will be able to better assess his shooting needs and preferences.

After that, I'd be "more than happy" to meet him at the range for some practice....

This saves face.
 
I guess my mind set is a bit different, I train 18 year old kids to use machine guns daily. I agree with everything that has been said but if this kid is such a dufus that he could not handle a handgun in a controlled environment, a range, then I wouldn't want to be on the road with him, allow him to cook in the kitchen or any number of what I consider dangerous but mundane activities.

I suggest that he get some formal training but if you want to take him out where you control both the firearms and the ammo I really don't see the problem. Better you take him and show him what you know, than him buy his own and try to teach himself. Chris
 
If you're already that nervous at the sheer proposition, then I think in your heart you already have your answer.

It's very easy for most of us to pass a shooting tradition onto our young children, but a 24 yr old dude that's full of testosterone, never handled a weapon, and has been tainted by all of our modern TV, movies, and video games? you probably owe it to your own safety and sanity to refer this gentleman to a professional that's paid for that type of thing.

You've given the impression of this room mate having a bit of an open mouth closed ear learning disorder, which is an immediate deal breaker for me personally. For example: why does he STILL refer to a .40 as 40mm, inspite of the fact that he's undoubtedly heard you state the caliber properly? He's already turned down your (very reasonable) suggestion of a hunter safety course because he basically feels that he doesn't need to know it.

Sounds like bad chemistry to me personally. (I say personally because Skunkwerks makes a very good point in his post)
 
runningboar said:
I guess my mind set is a bit different, I train 18 year old kids to use machine guns daily. Chris
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Hey Chris. As I remember, correct me if I am wrong. But, don't Drill Sargents, if that is what you are, that teach weapons, grenade and explosives training to trainees get paid hazardous duty pay? Or something like that? :D I thought I remember one of our Drill Sargent's telling me that once. Maybe he just thought he should be paid hazardous duty pay. :eek: Let me know. I'd be interested in knowing if thats what you do.

KR
 
I had a friend like that in High School and he almost killed (no joke) my dad in an impromptu field shooting trip.

I would say let him be...unless you wan the responsiblilty of a project. If you do, there is nothing more important than where the muzzle goes and keep your finger off the trigger until you want to KILL something. With KILL being operative here.

I probably would take the kid on and show him the right way to do things.
 
DANGER WILL ROBINSON !!

Being on good terms with the K-9 detail in my city I shoot at the police range quite often...At this range....A police range....no civilians....there are bullet holes in the counters and ceiling where guns have misfired or went off before the officer was ready. If trained professionals can make these mistakes I could only guess what a untrained person could do. Do NOT go to the range with him....Read about him shooting his foot in the paper the next day.

There is also an expert marksman (wins competitions every year) on the force who can fire 10 rounds in six seconds and they are all bullseyes...If he gets out of the black he is pissed....lol.....Of course I hate him...LOL
 
"I totally agree, there is no way I would allow him to touch a loaded weapon. He may try and impress you with his (total lack of) perceived gun knowledge. I see danger."

That was my first impression too. He seems a bit enamoured with what is a very mundane subject when you really get into it.

I'd suggest the NRA basic pistol course if he's never shot anything before. Let a certified instructor break him in, in a controlled environment.

Being odd isn't a reason to deny anyone a gun... I own several. If he has given you reason to pause and ask advice then listen to your instincts. Immaturity and firearms don't mix. Mac
 
kr1 said:
Hey Chris. As I remember, correct me if I am wrong. But, don't Drill Sargents, if that is what you are, that teach weapons, grenade and explosives training to trainees get paid hazardous duty pay? Or something like that? :D I thought I remember one of our Drill Sargent's telling me that once. Maybe he just thought he should be paid hazardous duty pay. :eek: Let me know. I'd be interested in knowing if thats what you do.
KR
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Drill Sergeants teach BRM, Basic Rifle Marksmanship, crusty platoon sergeants like me teach advanced rifle marksmanship, and believe me the training they get in basic is very basic. There is an incentive pay for Drills but it is not called hazardous duty pay, maybe it should be. I took 42 soldiers to the range last week, and we did have a ND but the muzzle was pointed downrange and it was nothing but chewing that soldiers butt.

Firearms are no different from other dangerous activities, canoeing for one,;) take the proper precautions and you will be fine. All those bullet holes in the counters and ceiling are not bullet holes in trainees so someone was teaching muzzle control. You have to go through the steps, classroom, unloaded dry firing, one round drills and so on, and lots of repetition but most everyone can be trained. Chris
 
This is a peer to peer situation. An acquaintance from work.
Hikeeba would be taking personal responsibility for this guy.

from purchase, safety, training all the way to trips to the range.

A big undertaking.

RB has control of his students, and they have discipline (we hope).
There are repercussions if they don't do what he says. Even more serious repercussions if they are unsafe. Same for us training our kids, we are in charge, they do what we we say, and there are repercussions if they don't.

In Hikeeba's case, who is in charge?

If he said it was his lifelong buddy he grew up with as neighbors, that might be one thing, but, this is just a person he knows from work.

Big responsibility when you become the principal party.

I agree with locating the closest NRA qualified person, they are usually as close by as the local pistol/rifle range, and refer him to them.

It would be a good idea for him to take the basic safety course, before even walking into a gun store to make his first purchase.
 
Safety first..and training all the way when it comes to the boom sticks to quote bear gryllis "you can get it right a thousand times, but you only get it wrong once."
 
Very good points skunk, I was thinking more about taking this guy to the range and teaching him the basics with my gun, then what he does on his own is up to him. Chris
 
I really appreciate all the responses! Thank you all so much! You all have made excellent points and helped me reinforce my feelings that I don't want to be or be involved with his first range accident. I think he is enamored with the 'coolness' of weapons and such. Before I figured out he was like this, I made the mistake of mentioning that I was considering a handgun purchase. Again, at the time, I thought he was a gun owner based on the way he was talking. He asked me why I don't consider getting an MP5. "MP5? Dude, are you serious?" was my reaction to that.

Funny thing... I ran some errands on my lunch hour and on my way back to work I stopped at Gander to get a case of target loads. The person I've mentioned was there. Our lunch hours overlap. Anyhoo, I saw him floating around the gun dept, so I thought I'd see if I could 'help' him. I asked him if they had anything good, and he said he was eyeing a used Sig P225 for $299.99. he then lead me over to the case where the new pistols were located. When an employee asked if we needed help, I began my 'help' mode and asked the employee how a beginner would get into shooting pistols. Unfortunately, the employee, and older gentleman that I have talked to before, was more focused on the type of gun a beginner should start with. I tried to lead him into talking about obtaining basic education, but all he said was, "Yeah, there are places around here that do that." Anyhoo, the Gander manHighly recommended starting with a revolver because of the few moving parts and easier trigger (single action). I was surprised that he erally down-played any sort of semi-auto, saying that they were all 'combat' guns and the triggers were all for crap. He mostly had good advice. Unfortuantely, the person who I had intended to be the main audience ended up drifting away from the conversation and not really paying attention.

I will see what I can find as far as a NRA course for him in our area. Beyond that, I will pass on shooting with him until I know that he has had some formal training and I know he has put a number of rounds safely down range. He siad he's getting a group together to do paintball for his birthday later this month. I don't even want to do that with him.

Thanks again everyone. I will try to point him in the direction of an NRA beginner's course and leave it at that. I'd like to help mainly because I really enjoy shooting sports, but his attitude and maturity level make me afraid to take him under my wing.
 
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