Rambo Knives - Why so little talk

[Praxis]

I study modern history for a living (grad. student) so here's my two cents for what it's worth. There may be some confusion between the Geneva Convention(s) and the Hague Conventions. The Hague Conventions beginning in 1899 (IIRC) settled upon "Rules of War" including provisions banning "dum-dum" bullets (JHPs) which expanded in the body and provisions against poison gas, weapons of terror, etc. The First Geneva Convention of 1929 dealt with POWs, MIA, the Red Cross, and captured wounded parties in war, etc. As far as I know the various Geneva conventions (both pre-WWII and after) never focused upon weapons of war.

Is it possible that the JAG officer was thinking of the Hague Convention rather than the Geneva Convention? Maybe this just further muddies the waters.


Ben

 

[not2sharp]

(bold mine)

CHAPTER I
Means of Injuring the Enemy,
Sieges, and bombardments
Art. 22.
The right of belligerents to adopt means of injuring the enemy is not unlimited.

Art. 23.
In addition to the prohibitions provided by special Conventions, it is especially forbidden -

To employ poison or poisoned weapons;

To kill or wound treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army;

To kill or wound an enemy who, having laid down his arms, or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion;

To declare that no quarter will be given;

To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering;

To make improper use of a flag of truce, of the national flag or of the military insignia and uniform of the enemy, as well as the distinctive badges of the Geneva Convention;

To destroy or seize the enemy's property, unless such destruction or seizure be imperatively demanded by the necessities of war;

To declare abolished, suspended, or inadmissible in a court of law the rights and actions of the nationals of the hostile party. A belligerent is likewise forbidden to compel the nationals of the hostile party to take part in the operations of war directed against their own country, even if they were in the belligerent's service before the commencement of the war.

 

[not2sharp]

Taken from Evans & Stephens, The Bayonet An Evolutionary History (pg 108-109)

"It should be pointed out from the outset that although the sawteeth give such (sawback) bayonet blades an unusually vicious appearance, the teeth were never intended to play a part in the bayonet's function as an offensive weapon. ... This did not prevent numerous British luminaries writing colorful letters to the (London)Times during the early years of the First World War complaining of the uncivilized and barbarous weapons of the ruthless Germans, who were still using sawback weapons at the time. ... The anti-German propaganda was however very effective and in 1917 the German military authorities had to order that the sawteeth be ground off bayonets still in service."


n2s

 

[Normark]

Hey N2S...

Thanks for taking the time to look that up Dude..
Very Interesting...

ttyle

Eric...

 

[Tracer-san]

Gentlemen, thank you very much for the History lesson, I really like it when posts turn out this way giving us all the oportunity to learn

bye!

Nestor

 

[Tracer-san]

Gentlemen, thank you very much for the History lesson, I really like it when posts turn out this way giving us all the oportunity to learn

bye!

Nestor

 

[Mike Turber]

One of the worst things about the Rambo I and II knives that comes to mind is that Jimmy Lile did not make ONE dime off the United version.

But that is about to change but unfortunately Jimmy is not here to witness it.

 

[one45auto]

Leather,

I have owned a number of knives of the variety you describe, including the United Cutlery Rambo knife. I regret to say that while they may look impressive, they're not the knife I would want in a survival situation and I will tell you briefly why.


In the first place, as many on this board have already mentioned, the hollow handle prevents the blade from possessing a sufficient tang. Instead the blade is attached to the handle with a mechanical fastener. While this method in no way interferes with the cutting ability of the blade, it does have an impact on other uses ~ both real and anticipated. For example, a blade attached by a mechanical fastener will not withstand the same level of force applied to the blade (especially towards the tip) that a full-tang model would allow, thus limiting the uses to which it could be put. Also, the blades are generally not made from high quality steel as they are manufactured primarily for appearance. The serrations on the spine of the knife seem useful, but I can assure you that they are not as I have tested them myself. They are generally too thick to cut effectively, and even then they rip rather than cut (and not in a very consistent manner, either) through the vegetation. In the time it takes to cut even a small vine, I could have hacked my way five feet or more with my machete or sliced twenty strands with my Cold Steel Trailmaster Bowie. The matches, fish hooks and other supplies could come in handy, but more often than not I am carrying these items into the field anyway and in an easier container.


I still own two knives of this variety though; a Maxam Survival Knife and an unknown model which appears to be a Maxam knife that was snitched from the production line. (It is absolutely identical apart from company markings and final finish ~ there are lathe marks still visible on the handle) Of the two my favorite is the unknown clone and I use this knife primarily for camping, though on occasion it'll pull double duty as my truck knife. It serves well for ordinary everyday purposes such as cutting rope, dressing fish, cooking, opening cartons, scraping salty snow off the wheel rims, and so on but I wouldn't rely on it for heavier applications.


In conclusion I would say that if you're looking for an attractive knife to perform basic chores (i.e. cutting and slicing) then it'll suit you just fine. But if you're planning on going into the wilderness where your life depends on it, take something else.


Hope this helps.

 

[Scumpup]

I own a couple knives roughly falling into this category. One is a 1980's vintage Coleman-Western survival knife that has all the matches, fishing gear, etc. in a puch on the sheath. The knife itself appears to have a fairly substantial tang that runs entirely through the handle to the heavy steel pommel. Unfortunately, it does have a pretty useless saw back. The other knives that sort-of fall into this category are two that I bought some years ago from AG Russell. These are a bowie and a dagger with synthetic handles. Byt undoing a screw in the handle, a flat panel in the grip can be swung aside to reveal a small storage area. Russell, himself, never adverised it as much more than a match safe. The knives both started out as full-tang construction, then had a small rectangle of metal milled out to allow for the storage cavity. All three of these knives are very sturdy and I wouldn't be afraid to depend on them.

 

[cyclura2k]

http://movieknives.com/

 

[Esav Benyamin]

cyclura2k, check out the dates on this thread you resurrected ... why?

 

[TorzJohnson]

Back... Back from the DEAD!!!

 

[PlaceKnives]

Here we go again! As far as United Cutlery goes, they are garbage. The tangs are about 3/4" of an ich long and are only pinned into the aluminum handle. Forget using them, they are strictly for show.

The better quality survival knives have tangs that are treaded and "red Lock-tited" or epoxied into a machined steel handle. Some makers like Covington, Cox and Randall also silver solder the tang into the handle for great strength.

As far as sawteeth on a knife, most people who trash them or say they are useless have never used them before. I have 2 Jack Crain hollow handled knives with sawteeth and not only are they indestructable, but the sawteeth do cut and saw very well.

I also have 2 David Beck custom knives with sawbacks that will saw a 1/4" slot in a chunk of wood as deep as you need to go.

My friend "Vermonster" owned a Crain, a Parrish, and several Colin Cox survival knives with hollow handles and sawteeth and he too will testify to the quality and usefullness of these knives and their features.

Whoever says "sawteeth are useless" has apparently never used a high quality sawback knife, or was under the perception that they are meant to saw down trees.

Just about any maker who makes a knife with sawteeth will tell you, they are not for sawing down trees. They are for cutting notches in wood and bone to help in the fabrication of traps, bows, wood and bone tools etc. They also come in handy for scraping sparks from your fire steel.

Here's a list of high quality makers of hollow handled and/or sawback survival knives-

-Colin Cox
-Greg Covington
-Jack Crain
-Randall Knife Co
-Chris Reeve Knives
-David Beck
-Wilkinson Sword
-Robert Parrish

Hope this helps,
Jared

 

[Walking Man]

Forget the hollow handle. If you want a cheaper and better alternative,
get whatever knife you want, and then get a sheath with decent sized pockets on it. OR if you want to be really smart and cheap, just buy a knife that already pockets. (I think the newer Becker combat bowies have this)

 

[Myakka]

Jared,
I agree with you, Sawteeth can be a very function item on a knife, besides looking cool.

 

[Mr.BadExample]

Thanks to you guys (and watching the new Predator special edition DVD) I just contacted Jack Crain

.... edit... having read the threads about reliability, I'm not holding my breath

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Thanks to you guys (and watching the new Predator special edition DVD) I just contacted Jack Crain

.... edit... having read the threads about reliability, I'm not holding my breath

Are you referring to Jack Crain's reliability?

 

[Jeop86]

The problem with sawteeth on a combat knife is that once you plunge the knife into an opponent's body, you cannot get it back out, because the sawteeth act like arrow barbs and tangle with flesh, sinew, and bone. It is often hard to get a smooth blade out, due to suction.

At the time of the Falklands War there was a story about an SAS commando who had exactly that problem when he took a Sly II into battle with him. He stabbed an opponent with the Sly II, which promptly got stuck, and then had to dispatch his understandably upset adversary by other means.

 

[Kohai999]

The problem with sawteeth ........ He stabbed an opponent with the Sly II, which promptly got stuck, and then had to dispatch his understandably upset adversary by other means.

You resurrected a thread that is over 2 1/2 years old.

STeven Garsson

 

[PatriotDan]

But he did it with style.