Random Thought Thread

Mendoman said:
I switched the wife’s Palaris Ev over to lithium and they are way more efficient and much lighter which also helps with efficiency. The only problem is that they are not tolerant of cold weather. Anything near freezing and they will read 0% charged and have a severely decreased performance. Once plugged in and warmed up a little they recover. But, it may be an issue for some of you in areas that experience extended periods of below freezing temperatures. It may be isolated to the brand or type of batteries I’m using but something to look into.
Click to expand...

Cold weather absolutely kills the/any battery holding charge.
 
Mendoman said:
I switched the wife’s Palaris Ev over to lithium and they are way more efficient and much lighter which also helps with efficiency. The only problem is that they are not tolerant of cold weather. Anything near freezing and they will read 0% charged and have a severely decreased performance. Once plugged in and warmed up a little they recover. But, it may be an issue for some of you in areas that experience extended periods of below freezing temperatures. It may be isolated to the brand or type of batteries I’m using but something to look into.
Click to expand...
They can deliver current in cold weather (although it may take a few tries before the internal resistance warms them enough to deliver current), but it’s literally dangerous to charge them at 32f or under.

Charging the Lithium chemistry at those temperatures can form deposits that create shorts, which would cause battery fires, and there are lots of videos of what lithium battery fires do.
 
ferider said:
Makes sense. One of these days I'll try Lithium in our everyday car that is much more exposed than the bikes ....

I was happy with the Harley battery though, because any additional CCA helps .... I've been stranded with the original lead batteries many times.
Click to expand...
I keep a GooLoo GT4000 jump pack in each vehicle.

They go on sale on Amazon frequently, for about $110-$120. Have used them to jump many vehicles, and I’ve had them long enough to see how they fared left in an outside vehicle 24/7/365 through MI winters and summers.
 
FYI - I would consider myself an expert on large 12v Lithium batteries. I have 3 in my boat and 4 in my RV. If you want a real education on Lithium dos/don'ts etc., visit the DIY Solar forum. Think of it like the BF of the large Lithium battery world.

You can NOT charge Lithium-Iron batteries below freezing temperatures, it will ruin them in short order, not to mention they can short out and BURN UP! This includes any charge coming from an engine alternator, so this pretty much rules them out for most vehicles in any kind of cold climates.

Most are also not set up to properly charge from an alternator, they will never reach full capacity that way. It can also wreck the alternator (happened on my buddy's boat motor, despite Mercury saying it would be OK).

Most large 12v Lithium batteries have an onboard BMS (Battery Management System) that controls all charge/discharge of the battery. This is a fairly large circuit board, inside of the battery case. So, if you're buying a 12v Lithium for a mobile application (other than maybe a large RV) it needs to have beefed up internals to handle the bumps and jolts. This is especially true with boat batteries.

bluemax_1 said:
They can deliver current in cold weather (although it may take a few tries before the internal resistance warms them enough to deliver current), but it’s literally dangerous to charge them at 32f or under.

Charging the Lithium chemistry at those temperatures can form deposits that create shorts, which would cause battery fires, and there are lots of videos of what lithium battery fires do.
Click to expand...
This!

bluemax_1 said:
I keep a GooLoo GT4000 jump pack in each vehicle.

They go on sale on Amazon frequently, for about $110-$120. Have used them to jump many vehicles, and I’ve had them long enough to see how they fared left in an outside vehicle 24/7/365 through MI winters and summers.
Click to expand...
I highly recommend the NoCo jump packs. They're more expensive, but they are very high quality and come in a myriad of different sizes.
 
Murphjd25 said:
Does no one use jumper cables anymore? I’m old school and still carry them lol.
Click to expand...
bluemax_1 said:
Learned the hard way a long time ago, that getting stranded from a dead battery, in -14f, when there was NO ONE around to get a jump from, makes jumper cables good for nothing.
Click to expand...
I carry both. I am one of those guys who believes I should always have multiple choices for anything ‘just in case’.

And the NoCo chargers are truly Awesome. I saved 2 batteries that would not take charges with my other. Simple tender hook-ups and easy to work/small.
 
beeinak said:
I carry both. I am one of those guys who believes I should always have multiple choices for anything ‘just in case’.

And the NoCo chargers are truly Awesome. I saved 2 batteries that would not take charges with my other. Simple tender hook-ups and easy to work/small.
Click to expand...
I carry both as well, with a caveat. Around town, I don’t carry the jumper pack on a day-to-day basis. On trips, 100% of the time. But I always have the cables.

Agree about the NoCo chargers also! I have a 10Ax3 in the boat (and a standalone 10A for the lead acid motor starter battery because it doesn’t need charged as often), and two 20Ax2 in the RV. Plus a 10A and two 1A that I use around the house. I love that they’ll do lead acid, AGM, or Lithium, and they have the force mode that can bring back dead batteries (I’ve had mixed results).
 
I still buy vehicle batteries at the Walmarts. Why? Because if it quits before the warranty is out all you do is go down and get a new one free. Plus there is a Walmarts literally everywhere. Remember being on a trip with my dad years ago and battery went out in his car. Got a ride to Walmart and got free battery. Had this happen a couple years ago in the farm truck too when I was a couple hours away from home. Buddy took me to Walmart and I got my free battery. Just knowing I have 4 years of replacement literally anywhere in the U.S. is what keeps me coming back.
 
beeinak said:
I carry both. I am one of those guys who believes I should always have multiple choices for anything ‘just in case’.

And the NoCo chargers are truly Awesome. I saved 2 batteries that would not take charges with my other. Simple tender hook-ups and easy to work/small.
Click to expand...
While I’m generally a fan of multiple redundancy, over the years, my thoughts on jumper cables have changed, after having carried (and used) them for decades.

Here are some of my personal experiences and thoughts on why I no longer carry jumper cables, now that these smaller portable jumppacks are available.

- GF in college started keeping jumper cables in her car as well, after seeing me use mine, and me explaining why I carry them. She tried to be helpful, when someone else had difficulty starting their vehicle. They of course, offered to be ‘helpful’, connecting the cables on their end, but crossed the polarity. Fried her car’s ECU, when they tried starting their car.

Almost all the good jumppacks have cross polarity detection/protection, and will BEEEEEEP (if someone screws up the connections), but since there’s only one pair of clamps, it simplifies things when only one person is hooking it up, AND eliminates the possibility of frying the sensitive electronics in your own vehicle (I’ve had people tell me of ECU issues from giving someone else a jumpstart, even with both ends hooked up properly).

- also in college, I tried helping give someone a jumpstart. Hooked the cables up, their vehicle started right up. As I went to unhook the cables, they said, “Oh wait… do you mind leaving things hooked up for a bit?”, I said, “Why? It started up and is running, now”. They said, “Oh, my friend told me the alternator is going bad, and isn’t charging the battery, so if you unhook the cables right now, the engine will die again. I just need you to leave the cables hooked up to charge the battery enough to get home”. Great. Now I’m stuck here, for 15-20 minutes, when I have other things to do.

I’ve had someone try that, when I used a jumppack to give them a jumpstart. Simple (and truthful) answer, as I unhook it, “Oh, these small jumppacks can deliver enough current to crank the starter, but they don’t have anywhere near enough capacity to charge a flat battery. Sorry, but you should call a tow truck”.

*** as for NOCO jumppacks; although I see them recommended often, I’ve read (and personally known) more complaints from owners finding them swelled up, when they went to use them, or flat/dead after a few months, when they were needed, than with most other brands (also entirely possible that more people buying that brand = higher chance of hearing about failures).

I started carrying jumppacks from the old lead-acid days, having owned a couple Schumachers and a JNC. Big, bulky, and especially in the winter cold, they needed to be charged ~every 30 days, if I wanted to be sure they’d work when needed (waiting 60 days without recharging in the winter time, meant a 50:50 chance they wouldn’t be able to start a vehicle).

Tried the first LiIon jumppack back in 2015 (a brand/model that’s long since defunct: a PowerAll Rosso). I carried it along with the Schumacher lead acid, periodically checking the Rosso, until it had sat in the vehicle for a year, since the last charge. Confirmed that it could still start a vehicle after being left in it 24/7/365 since the last time it was charged. I still have that one. It can still jumpstart a vehicle, but it’s long since been relegated to use as a 5v USB battery pack, for powering gizmos.

I’ve tried (and still have) many LiIon jumppacks.

- PowerAll Rosso
- dbPower 2000A
- Audew 2000A
- GooLoo GT4000
- GooLoo GTX280 (these have the ability to jumpstart vehicles, and come with jumper cables, but I got these mostly for use as battery packs).

The reasons I recommend the GT4000, nowadays;

- the oldest units were bought in 2022. As with all of these, I check them first every 30 days, then 3 months, until they’ve sat in the vehicle that’s left outside 24/7/365, for a year since the last recharge (took a while, as I reset the ‘clock’, when I gave someone a jumpstart and recharged the unit). Instead of the cheap 4-LED battery gauge (like the PowerAll, dbPower, and NOCO units I’ve seen), where I have no idea if 2 LEDs means 27%, or 67%, the GooLoo (and Audew) units have a digital display that shows the battery level in percentage.

They’ve been at 96-97% after 1 year, and I confirmed that they would start a 6L engine with battery disconnected.

- the GT4000 units have a BIG backlit LCD display that shows things like battery percentage (the Audew battery percentage display is small, and too dim to be easily read in sunlight), as well as things like input charge current, and output current (when using the unit as a battery pack, which makes it easy to see, and calculate battery drain and estimate equipment runtimes when using it as a battery pack). The BIG display is a boon for folks with presbyopia 😝

- this next part is a BIG feature to me. The GooLoo GT4000 and GTX280 units have a 100w USB-C in/out, so they can be used to charge things like Apple devices, at 100w, but importantly, the jumppacks themselves can take a 100w charge current. I’ve drained them flat, powering a USB powered portable fan, and recharged the unit in just over an hour. The older units that all have much lower charging current inputs take 4-5+ hours to fully charge.

The GT4000 is packaged with their fast charge CLA (Cigarette Lighter/Accessory) cable, and I confirmed that the 120w CLA port on the Toyota does indeed, show a 104-105w input on the unit. When I was at a friend’s during a power outage. I used the GT4000 to recharge cellphones, and the CLA cable to recharge the GT4000 from 7x-80%, back to full, in just the ~17 (total) minutes driving to and from a store to get some items.

- the GT4000 has nice, big, clearly labeled buttons for Power and Boost. The Boost button is needed when using it to jump something with a really dead battery (or using it to jump 12v accessories). In contrast, whichever moron designed the dbPower jumppack, made the Boost button a small, recessed black button on the side of the black adapter that plugs into the jumppack to connect the battery clamps. If you didn’t RTFM (and have presbyopia) good luck finding that stupid button (that needs something like a pen tip, to press), in the dark, at night, in the rain, when you’re trying to jumpstart a vehicle.

- the fast recharge makes the GT4000 a great accessory power pack. I’ve used the one in my DD, to power numerous 12v powered accessories, like the Sylvania Rapid 12v tire inflator (that draws ~170-180w peak! It’s compact and fast, but if you plug this into the CLA port of many vehicles, there’s a good chance of popping the fuse! Having seen this happen with another CLA plug inflator in a friend’s car, I used to keep a battery clamp to CLA port extender cable to use. Ditched that, when I confirmed that the GT4000 easily powers 12v accessories (and comes with an included CLA port cable).

I’ve also used the GT4000 to power the 12v car jack (another convenient device. Not that much bigger than the manual scissor jack, but MUCH faster than cranking away with the manual jack. Raises a corner in ~20-30 seconds with a button press, while allowing me to stand somewhat protected from inattentive drivers (and maintaining situational awareness, in less than stellar areas).

Even use it regularly to power the 12v hydraulic master unit for the Quickjack 7000 (another highly recommended item, for folks who can’t install a 2-post or 4-post lift in the garage (or like having the remote ability, for raising a track car, or hauling to a parent’s/relative’s/friend’s to work in their vehicle).

- the GT4000 also has a built-in preheat feature (LiIon jumppacks don’t provide full cranking amps until warm, if it’s really cold), that I have yet to test, as I haven’t needed to give anyone a jump in sub-zero temps since getting the GT4000 units.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top