Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

Ballenxj said:
White? Blue? Super Blue? You guys are speaking Greek now. Anybody care to enlighten me? :confused:
-Bruce
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They are different grades of Japanese Cutlery steel with Super Blue being the best and most expensive. Seen mostly in High End Japanese kitchen knives.
 
Ankerson said:
They are different grades of Japanese Cutlery steel with Super Blue being the best and most expensive. Seen mostly in High End Japanese kitchen knives.
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Thanks. :) Are these high end Japanese knives mostly kitchen cutlery, or are there a few edc's?
As an aside, I was looking at a knife on ebay that the seller stated had high end J2 steel, so I researched it and found it really didn't have that good of a reputation. I believe it was likened to soft butter. :rolleyes:
-Bruce
 
Ballenxj said:
Thanks. :) Are these high end Japanese knives mostly kitchen cutlery, or are there a few edc's?
As an aside, I was looking at a knife on ebay that the seller stated had high end J2 steel, so I researched it and found it really didn't have that good of a reputation. I believe it was likened to soft butter. :rolleyes:
-Bruce
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You won't find Super Blue in EDC's because it will rust so fast and to get it from a top maker you will pay a lot for a knife in it. I have seen Japanese Kitchen knives in Super Blue selling for over $800 each.

But that's whole different world. ;)
 
There are some higonokami folders with super blue cores, and if you want a kitchen knife as well, they start around $60 for a small petty.
 
Merry Christmas, Jim Ankerson!

I'm hoisting a glass of 18 year old Bourbon to you right now. Keep up the great work, my friend!
 
IIRC, Sal was talking about a caly with super blue...


I see that super blue is up in category 1 together with the M4, S90V, and M390. That's very interesting.
 
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hardheart said:
There are some higonokami folders with super blue cores, and if you want a kitchen knife as well, they start around $60 for a small petty.
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I was thinking more Murry Carter and the Better Japanese makers. :)
 
Jim, I knew Blue Super is a performer, but I never would have given or taken a bet on it's wear resistance. For it to place with those heavyweights with much higher carbide fractions but still good hardnesses sort of stuns me.

I love the Tungsten steels and I've been aware of their performance for a while but I am still trying to figure out why.

It must have something to do with the steel not chipping or deforming due to it's "perfect storm" of high carbon, clean w/ low inclusions and contaminents, plus tungsten carbides in a steel that overall was pretty hard, with excellent geometry ( kind of understated, this is a thin slicer of a knife with nice belly and Jim's more than excellent mirrored edge).

I have no doubt your sharpening job on that thin blade brought out that performance. If we took mine with my edge on it the numbers you recorded would have been much different.

Yes, surprised but pleased. Surprised, and I'm one of the guys that was talking Blue super up. :o It really gets into the whole "what causes edges to dull" thing.

Joe
 
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The Mastiff said:
Jim, I knew Blue Super is a performer, but I never would have given or taken a bet on it's wear resistance. For it to place with those heavyweights with much higher carbide fractions but still good hardnesses sort of stuns me.

I love the Tungsten steels and I've been aware of their performance for a while but I am still trying to figure out why.

It must have something to do with the steel not chipping or deforming due to it's "perfect storm" of high carbon, clean w/ low inclusions and contaminents, plus tungsten carbides in a steel that overall was pretty hard, with excellent geometry ( kind of understated, this is a thin slicer of a knife with nice belly and Jim's more than excellent mirrored edge).

I have no doubt your sharpening job on that thin blade brought out that performance. If we took mine with my edge on it the numbers you recorded would have been much different.

Yes, surprised but pleased. Surprised, and I'm one of the guys that was talking Blue super up. :o It really gets into the whole "what causes edges to dull" thing.

Joe
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I think that would be a whole new thread just talking about what would dull a blade. :D

But then not everything works exactly like we would think it would on paper looking at the contents of the steels.
 
Ankerson said:
I think that would be a whole new thread just talking about what would dull a blade. :D
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The simplified answer; USE. :p
Seriously, This gets even more interesting when you guys bring up "Tungsten Carbide." I have never heard of that term being used for knife steel before, but it sounds mighty interesting. Are there any commercially manufactured blades that you could point me to?
I'm guessing it rates way up there for edge retention?
As an aside, I love the old Schrade USA knives, how would their high carbon blades rate against today's modern steels? Thanks. :)
-Bruce
 
Ankerson said:
I was thinking more Murry Carter and the Better Japanese makers. :)
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Gotcha, his stuff is nice. And the top chef knives are tops in price, too. I have a catalog from Japan that looks like something any fairly typical manufacturer would produce, except many of the individual models cost as much as a whole block full of Shuns.

I also think Sal was serious about the Super Blue Caly. He had mentioned a while back that one of the issues in getting more steels for the Mule Team project was that the minimum orders were too high. Spyderco was going to have to do something with the extra steel. At the time, the Military was the most popular suggestion - but it would probably make more sense to go with a Seki model since the steel is already in Japan.
 
Moritaka makes some basic kitchen knives - lasers - with Blue Super for less than $200 if a standard finish is chosen (a chef knife with a 9.4" blade sells for $168 from one seller). I'm another fan of Blue Super who's also surprized it did so well.
 
hardheart said:
Gotcha, his stuff is nice. And the top chef knives are tops in price, too. I have a catalog from Japan that looks like something any fairly typical manufacturer would produce, except many of the individual models cost as much as a whole block full of Shuns.

I also think Sal was serious about the Super Blue Caly. He had mentioned a while back that one of the issues in getting more steels for the Mule Team project was that the minimum orders were too high. Spyderco was going to have to do something with the extra steel. At the time, the Military was the most popular suggestion - but it would probably make more sense to go with a Seki model since the steel is already in Japan.
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Yeah, they are really up there, but you get edge geometry, blade geometry, design and HT that is way above the norm usually.

If you have ever see Japanese Chefs work with their knives it's really an amazing sight to see.
 
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Does anyone know why S90V is usually run softer than other super steels? Surely it has the composition to take 62 or higher, and if it is in category 1 at 59, how much better would it cut at 62+? You might only have to sharpen it once a year!! ;) :D
 
black mamba said:
Does anyone know why S90V is usually run softer than other super steels? Surely it has the composition to take 62 or higher, and if it is in category 1 at 59, how much better would it cut at 62+? You might only have to sharpen it once a year!! ;) :D
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I believe that would cause chipping issues even worse than what you get with ZDP-189. Of course, that might depend on who does the heat treat;).
 
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