Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

Ankerson said:
The Manix 2 S90V was on loan for the testing and had pretty low angle edge bevel on it so I had to put a Micro Bevel on it to get a 30 degree inclusive edge. It also had been sharpened a few times too from that it looked like. I would have had to remove a lot more steel to back the edge up.

The same thing that happened between the 2 Endura 4's in ZDP that I had cut with, one was micro beveled and worn a bit and the other was new. Big difference between them.

So in short the difference was the thickness of the steel behind the edge, one of the reasons why I try and get all the blades as close as I can to the same to make things as even as I can get them.

When I was testing it it seemed like it wanted to do better, you can tell when you cut enough that a steel should be doing better, you get a feel for it after awhile.

So in the end S90V is in two Categories, I will have the Military and Para 2 RC tested and the results will be added once I find out what they are. Both knives ended up with the exact same result, number of cuts to 20 LBS of downforce.

I will remove the Manix 2 from the list once I get the RC testing data back.
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Let me make sure I understand this right. The knife with the edge thinned out more and then a 30 degree microbevel put on it, did NOT perform as well. It would have performed better with just a straight 30 degree edge?
 
ricklee4570 said:
Let me make sure I understand this right. The knife with the edge thinned out more and then a 30 degree microbevel put on it, did NOT perform as well. It would have performed better with just a straight 30 degree edge?
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It wasn't really thinned out, it was thicker behind the edge. ;)
 
Thanks, Jim. Seems like this is a case of differences in blades as a whole, rather than steel.

Ankerson said:
The Manix 2 S90V was on loan for the testing and had pretty low angle edge bevel on it so I had to put a Micro Bevel on it to get a 30 degree inclusive edge. It also had been sharpened a few times too from that it looked like. I would have had to remove a lot more steel to back the edge up.

The same thing that happened between the 2 Endura 4's in ZDP that I had cut with, one was micro beveled and worn a bit and the other was new. Big difference between them.

So in short the difference was the thickness of the steel behind the edge, one of the reasons why I try and get all the blades as close as I can to the same to make things as even as I can get them.

When I was testing it it seemed like it wanted to do better, you can tell when you cut enough that a steel should be doing better, you get a feel for it after awhile.

So in the end S90V is in two Categories, I will have the Military and Para 2 RC tested and the results will be added once I find out what they are. Both knives ended up with the exact same result, number of cuts to 20 LBS of downforce.

I will remove the Manix 2 from the list once I get the RC testing data back.
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JNewell said:
Thanks, Jim. Seems like this is a case of differences in blades as a whole, rather than steel.
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Yeah I don't think I should have used that knife now that I think back, but I didn't have another S90V to test so I went with it anyway. The data is good though for that knife.

Now that I have tested 2 others and got the exact same results and better from those 2 blades it's all good. :)
 
What, in your opinion, makes the S90V such a good edge holder? Is it the high Vanadium content? If I remember right, Spyderco heat treats these to about 58?
 
ricklee4570 said:
What, in your opinion, makes the S90V such a good edge holder? Is it the high Vanadium content? If I remember right, Spyderco heat treats these to about 58?
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Spyderco runs it at 59 pretty consistantly from what I have seen over the years.

If you look at the components and that 9% Vanadium than start comparing that to other steels you will see.

Carbon 2.3%
Chromium 14.0%
Vanadium 9.0%
Molybdenum 1.0%
 
Jim, can you help use understand the differences, perhaps in practical terms, between the various categories? Edge retention from a 2 to 3 or a 2 to a 4 means what?
 
jurisprudence said:
Jim, can you help use understand the differences, perhaps in practical terms, between the various categories? Edge retention from a 2 to 3 or a 2 to a 4 means what?
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I don't give any percentages or any info on raw data, but it's large enough that there is a noticeable difference between them.
 
I'm not surprised with those S90V results. When I did some comparison testing in cardboard and sisal rope, the S90V Millie far outperformed everything else that I tried.
 
lambertiana said:
I'm not surprised with those S90V results. When I did some comparison testing in cardboard and sisal rope, the S90V Millie far outperformed everything else that I tried.
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That 's exactly what happened here too, and by a large margin.
 
Jim -
I recall reading that KAI has the highest RC on S30V, I do not recall where I saw that but it surprised me. Then it was Spyderco, then Benchmade. DO you have any info on that?
 
RevDevil said:
Jim -
I recall reading that KAI has the highest RC on S30V, I do not recall where I saw that but it surprised me. Then it was Spyderco, then Benchmade. DO you have any info on that?
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Haven't seen anything concrete on that so I couldn't say for sure.
 
The different treatment of the same steel (HT processing) despite the blade grinds is something that I am interested in learning about. I would be willing to bet that KAI, Spyderco, and Benchmade have their own twist on the conventional method. I'd like to try a decent Benchmade folder with S30V to compare to the Para2 of the same steel and the Blur. The more we learn the more we want to know...This is the real underlying addiction for some of us. :)
 
RevDevil said:
The different treatment of the same steel (HT processing) despite the blade grinds is something that I am interested in learning about. I would be willing to bet that KAI, Spyderco, and Benchmade have their own twist on the conventional method. I'd like to try a decent Benchmade folder with S30V to compare to the Para2 of the same steel and the Blur. The more we learn the more we want to know...This is the real underlying addiction for some of us. :)
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As long as the HRC is the same or close like within .5 HRC and the sharpening and blade profiles are close, edge profiles are the same, sharpening is the same and steel thickness behind the edge is very close to the same the results should be very close to each other.
 
RevDevil said:
The different treatment of the same steel (HT processing) despite the blade grinds is something that I am interested in learning about. I would be willing to bet that KAI, Spyderco, and Benchmade have their own twist on the conventional method. I'd like to try a decent Benchmade folder with S30V to compare to the Para2 of the same steel and the Blur. The more we learn the more we want to know...This is the real underlying addiction for some of us. :)
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To start out on your learning quest try getting to a local blacksmith and custom or smaller knife maker. It is great to see how blades are forged, how knife makers talks about why they chose the steel they do as well as the HT, the cooling and tempering process. See little emphasis on tempering and cooling on forums, but still a valuable process with the HT. Talking to those guys and seeing how they grind and forge is a great learning experience! :thumbup:
 
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My Manix 2 S90V is quite well used, and the edge is definately thicker than my other, less used S90V Manix 2. I can definately see why it didn't perform as well as the steel allows, as it really needs a regrind. Too bad Tom Krein isn't regrinding anymore because that knife would definately be much thinner now. It is good to see new knives in the same steel getting tested to show how different knives of the same steel can vary.

Mike
 
gunmike1 said:
My Manix 2 S90V is quite well used, and the edge is definately thicker than my other, less used S90V Manix 2. I can definately see why it didn't perform as well as the steel allows, as it really needs a regrind. Too bad Tom Krein isn't regrinding anymore because that knife would definately be much thinner now. It is good to see new knives in the same steel getting tested to show how different knives of the same steel can vary.

Mike
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I have an idea who might do it for you. :D
 
Ankerson said:
I have an idea who might do it for you. :D
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I have a good idea as well!

Any interest in testing a 20CP Para 2? I can have it shipped directly to you from my pusher (I think he'll do it) when he gets it next Monday. That way you won't be getting a well used knife like my Manix 2 was, it will be factory fresh and therefore a great comparison to the Millie and Para 2 in S90V. If you have the time I'll cover all shipping involved and can throw in a little extra for testing costs.

Mike
 
gunmike1 said:
I have a good idea as well!

Any interest in testing a 20CP Para 2? I can have it shipped directly to you from my pusher (I think he'll do it) when he gets it next Monday. That way you won't be getting a well used knife like my Manix 2 was, it will be factory fresh and therefore a great comparison to the Millie and Para 2 in S90V. If you have the time I'll cover all shipping involved and can throw in a little extra for testing costs.

Mike
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Sounds great to me, I have one on preorder also, but it sounds like you will get yours faster. :D :thumbup:
 
I'll see about getting the Para to you right away. Another nice thing is that when you test your's when it arrives there will be 2 data points for Carpenter's version of S90V and we can see if it really is as good as real S90V.

Mike
 
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