Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

Sorry, but that's an inconsistency: you claim it is unfair to compare customs and productions (on which I disagree, BTW) and then the only custom in your group happens to be the Demko in CPM-154, no wonder you are getting an extraordinary performance from it. It is not just the profile, but the heat treat on a custom knife is more accurate.
 
LorenzoL said:
Sorry, but that's an inconsistency: you claim it is unfair to compare customs and productions (on which I disagree, BTW) and then the only custom in your group happens to be the Demko in CPM-154, no wonder you are getting an extraordinary performance from it. It is not just the profile, but the heat treat on a custom knife is more accurate.
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No, it's not more accurate than production knives when done by a commerical heat treater like it was just like production knives are. ;)

Spyderco's HT are very accurate and consistant from what I have seen.

That is a very common misconception that most people have. ;)

Most customs are not HT by the makers, the blades are sent out for Heat treating, a few like Phil Wilson do their own.
 
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"Most customs are not HT by the makers, the blades are sent out for Heat treating, a few like Phil Wilson do their own."


Pretty broad statement. I've been collecting for years and if i'd make any generalization it would be most custom makers don't tell you about heat treat unless you ask. Most ABS smiths and forgers do their own heat treatment.
 
LorenzoL said:
Great stuff, Jim.

Just a couple questions. I don't know if I missed it but I would like to know what's the degree of improvement from one category to another expressed in percentage.
Also, do you test one knife per steel or do you test several from different manufacturers and average the results?
Finally, when you test CTS-XHP try to do so on another knife than the Manix 2, I don't know what happened at Spyderco but they must have gotten something wrong with it. It is a steel I really like on all the knives I have that use it, except for the M2.

I would love to see what the results are when you include custom knives...
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What precisely do you mean by "got something wrong" with the steel?

I also don't think anyone would be able to pry my hands off of my XM-18 long enough for him to test it:D.

Ankerson said:
Yeah, I am taking a break from cutting right now, maybe until after the holiday's then I might start back up again testing.

Plus I don't have any test knives here right now so it's a good time for a break. :)

I have a few Busse chopping videos I need to shoot once the weather gets a little warmer also.
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Oh good, I'll send you my Manix 2 and ZT 0551 after New Years:thumbup:.
 
brownshoe said:
"Most customs are not HT by the makers, the blades are sent out for Heat treating, a few like Phil Wilson do their own."


Pretty broad statement. I've been collecting for years and if i'd make any generalization it would be most custom makers don't tell you about heat treat unless you ask. Most ABS smiths and forgers do their own heat treatment.
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Most of what I tested has been folders and Stainless steels, not Carbon blades. ;)

We all know the ABS Smiths do their own HT, that's a given.
 
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So, how do you know that "Most customs are not HT by the makers?"

Or I guess you really meant "Most stainless steel custom knives are not HT by the makers". How do you know? The stainless steel custom knives I have, pocket and fixed blade, are all HT by the maker.
 
brownshoe said:
So, how do you know that "Most customs are not HT by the makers?"

Or I guess you really meant "Most stainless steel custom knives are not HT by the makers". How do you know? The stainless steel custom knives I have, pocket and fixed blade, are all HT by the maker.
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Depends on how many have Ovens and Rockwell machines.

Neither of which are cheap.
 
jim i do'nt think most members grasp the fact that a majority of custom makers send blades to a heattreater since ovens & rockwell machines are expensive. i have had many customs dating from the 70s & it's a fact most makers have heattreating done out of house. i believe a rockwell machine runs several thousand dollars. another point is ovens need calibrating every now & then to assure temp. accuracy. the difference in a tweaked blade by crusader forge & phil wilson is like comparing a chevy to a dodge viper. crusader forge triple tempers their s30 & even though spydie has an accurate rockwell on their s30 the performance between the crusader s30 & spydie s30 is a ton. phil wilson's blades are so customized that it's not fair to compare them to factory output. jim did some sisal cutting with wilson as opposed to factory blades & he did'nt post the numbers since the performance was so vastly different. once again it's the corvette vs the datsun.
dennis
 
Phil Wilson said:
Dougnut, just another thought. Why would anyone cut sandpaper with a knife and consider this a test of anything? But if you think it is valid why don't you do this test for us. Start with 100 grit and go up to 180 grit. Maybe do this with about 20 different knives.. Phil
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I'm not starting a fight, I'm just giving some examples. A knife can be used to cut sandpaper and some people probably do it and it is probably not the easiest material to cut.

If you want to know how much of the easiest to cut material a blade will handle, then you will easily find someone to do the testing for you.


My post did not even require an answer and it WASN'T answered. I don't need an answer, but I would like people to think about it. I don't need people to take insult, I need people to listen.
 
Ankerson said:
No, it's not more accurate than production knives when done by a commerical heat treater like it was just like production knives are. ;)

Spyderco's HT are very accurate and consistant from what I have seen.

That is a very common misconception that most people have. ;)

Most customs are not HT by the makers, the blades are sent out for Heat treating, a few like Phil Wilson do their own.
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This post makes me think that this is simply a heat treating test, not a steel test.
 
I think the point here is that some people are trying to tell Jim how they would like him to test knives. Testing is a LOT of work, I did some several years ago, so I know.

If you - or anyone else - would like to see it go in a different direction, then by all means, do it, and report the results to us. I'd be interested in your findings.

But Ankerson is testing how he sees fit, and I'm fine with that also. There's room for everyone and all their different interests.
 
Doughnut said:
I'm not starting a fight, I'm just giving some examples. A knife can be used to cut sandpaper and some people probably do it and it is probably not the easiest material to cut.

If you want to know how much of the easiest to cut material a blade will handle, then you will easily find someone to do the testing for you.

My post did not even require an answer and it WASN'T answered. I don't need an answer, but I would like people to think about it. I don't need people to take insult, I need people to listen.
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Doughnut said:
This post makes me think that this is simply a heat treating test, not a steel test.
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these posts make me think you really don't have any idea what you are talking about. and you haven't given anyone any reason to listen to anything you have to say.

jim's tests are consistent and informative. the results are easy to see and understand.

a blades cutting performance will be the result of a variety of factors, ht is just one.
 
Sandpaper is very easy to cut with knives, I did it all the time so I wouldn't wear out the scissors.

This is a test of knives, not steel. Otherwise, the customs could be ranked and S30V wouldn't be in two places. There is no absolute ranking of steels for cutting, because there is no industry standard test for it.

IMO, it is best just to accept what is presented, and reference other tests and other data given on steels, mechanics of cutting, physical properties, and just what you like. Nothing will ever be comprehensive.
 
hardheart said:
Sandpaper is very easy to cut with knives, I did it all the time so I wouldn't wear out the scissors.

This is a test of knives, not steel. Otherwise, the customs could be ranked and S30V wouldn't be in two places. There is no absolute ranking of steels for cutting, because there is no industry standard test for it.

IMO, it is best just to accept what is presented, and reference other tests and other data given on steels, mechanics of cutting, physical properties, and just what you like. Nothing will ever be comprehensive.
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:thumbup: I just wish Jim disclosed the knives that were tested for each steel and also gave an order of magnitude for each category (for example, 500-800 cuts, category 2).
My takeaway from this test so far: I want a 10V or M390 blade from Phil Wilson ;) (I like stuff that is off the charts).
 
ditto to sodak & morimotom, doughnut as i have mentioned many times : instead of provocative queries get your knives, hit the garage & start cutting. only the man cutting can truly know what knife & or alloy will satisfy his needs.
dennis
 
great tests man ill keep looking if you keep testing and if you like i can send a couple of loaners your way after the new year/tax time but currently the only two steels i can think of that i got that i dont see so far are 13C26 and 14C28 from kershaw

thanks for giving your time to do this



ETA i dunno if i missed it but if any whats the min/max blade thickness your testing?
 
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mrdavidross321 said:
great tests man ill keep looking if you keep testing and if you like i can send a couple of loaners your way after the new year/tax time but currently the only two steels i can think of that i got that i dont see so far are 13C26 and 14C28 from kershaw

thanks for giving your time to do this



ETA i dunno if i missed it but if any whats the min/max blade thickness your testing?
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.155" thick Max.... Think Spyderco Military, thicker than that then it's too thick.

3 1/2" to 4" blade.

No recurves, way too much of a hassle for this testing and not really worth the time and effort.
 
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Hi Jim, Thanks for taking the time to do this testing, and posting your results.
A quick question; I note that your results for S30V ended up in two different categories.
Category 3, and I'm assuming the Rockwell hardness is in parenthesis, of (60)?
Again I find S30V in category 5, with a Rockwell hardness of (58.5)?
Did I miss something, or is this just the way the testing worked out with two separate examples?
Thanks. :)
-Bruce
 
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