Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

djdawg said:
I know nothing and have everything to learn ......... I judge my choice of steels on others post and reviews , not real world use.
I use my knives "yes" but not everyday and not enough to really be a judge.
Hell , I think Elmax has held up really well in my cardboard box cutting up routine.
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Elmax is a heck of a steel. But from 61hrc on. Ankerson will confirm.
 
daberti said:
I wonder (just a curiosity) if you had ever a chance to do a side by side comparison with a Fantoni knife.
More could be said about the selling price of CRK here in Italy. A custom M390 folder from a RENOWN SA maker included shipping and VAT and various duties had been paid well less by myself.
Once again and back to the route: high Cr C, V steels do need a certain ht. This is due to physical requirements peculiar to alloying elements.
There is a "window" that allows for some adjustments towards toughness or edge stability. But I simply cannot tolerate any longer hearing from production makers that they stay three full Hrc points behind just to allow for more toughness or ease of sharpening.
I can actually bring the edge back on m390 @>62 just with few passes on Cr strop. Ceramic stick if more dull.
Same for s30v or alike.
I really cannot understand the metallurgical reasoning behind that HT.
So, same maker same knife one blade in Elmax at 59 and another in Aeb-l +304l Damascus at 61 I went with the latter.
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Never seen a Fantoni knife in person.

I do have experience with custom heat treated M390 and ELMAX and they are very nice.
 
djdawg said:
I sure like the build of them ............. alot
I only sold because I heard various bad things about edge holding if this knife.
I should probably rethink it.
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You sold it because of what you heard, rather than how it performed for you? :(
 
JNewell said:
You sold it because of what you heard, rather than how it performed for you? :(
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Few things are more subjective than how a re-sharpened edge performs... I've put edges on that lasted a long time, and then put an edge that didn't, on the very same knife... And I have innumerable tricks to check for wire edges... So it is marginally useful to listen to concurring outside opinion... It's not like personal observations on a free-hand re-sharpened edge is as enlightening as most people think... At least not without using a microscope before and after... Not to mention that a real comparison would involve two different steels on two identical knives, with edge angles/edge thicknesses micro-meter checked to be a perfect match, plus a matching surface grit finish... I won't even go on matching cutting motion/angle/pressure on perfectly matching materials...

Just comparing stock factory edges is not quite the tolerances I'm talking about for a meaningful result...

Me, I usually only ever buy one knife of each model, so besides what people say, or doing to my knives huge -and potentially meaningless- damage, I'm very close to just spinning them on a table to make up my mind on their steels... Any outside opinion is thus welcomed. But I would still discourage strong opinions on this subject, especially when you hear things like 440C is a second-rate steel, or, even funnier, that chrome reduces edge-holding...

Gaston
 
daberti said:
Elmax is a heck of a steel. But from 61hrc on. Ankerson will confirm.
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Yeah, it really starts to talk in that range due to the process needed to get it there. :)

I do have a Custom fixed blade coming soon in S35VN that I will be testing, hardness and specs will be posted once the testing is done.

I have an S30V Michael Raymond Estrella here now that I will be testing over the weekend, should be interesting as it's very thin behind the edge at .006" and 60.5 RC I believe.

I also have a Phil Wilson in CPM M4 that I will be testing once I get it back in a few weeks.
 
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Ankerson said:
Yeah, it really starts to talk in that range due to the process needed to get it there. :)

I do have a Custom fixed blade coming soon in S35VN that I will be testing, hardness and specs will be posted once the testing is done.

I have an S30V Michael Raymond Estrella here now that I will be testing over the weekend, should be interesting as it's very thin behind the edge at .006" and 60.5 RC I believe.

I also have a Phil Wilson in CPM M4 that I will be testing once I get it back in a few weeks.
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Lotta good news Ankerson :thumbup:
 
daberti said:
Indeed you read/heard that? That Cr reduces edge holding?
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Jay Fisher apparently did hear this from a maker ignorant, or dishonest, enough to say that...: www.Jayfisher.com

Quote: "I was shocked when I read on a knife maker's website that "Chromium prevents the steel from rusting but significantly degrades edge holding capabilities of the steel. All steels are composed of grains of the various alloying elements, the relatively large size of chromium results in a blade that will quickly dull and be very difficult to re-sharpen."

I was saddened when I read this, because it's completely wrong. It was easy to see why this guy wrote this; he's making damascus chef's knives, knives with blades out of 52100 plain carbon steel, and he's trying to paint a better picture of his plain carbon steel.

If you buy this guy's statements you are, sadly, misinformed. Let's get this very straight and clear. Chromium is an alloy that HELPS hardness, hardenability, and wear resistance, in many instances forming chromium carbides which are extremely hard and wear-resistant, quite the opposite of what this guy claims."

Another interesting quote: " "I have owned about 10,000 antique kitchen and butcher knives, and examined perhaps 20 times that number. I have found that good quality modern stainless steel knives, when properly sharpened, are superior in use to all older knives, even the very best. Stainless steel knives can be made at least as sharp as carbon steel ones, they stay sharp many times longer, and of course, they do not stain... the president of a major knife company put it very well when he said to me that preferring carbon steel knives over stainless steel ones is like preferring vacuum tube radios over transistor ones."

--Bernard Levine, Levine's Guide to Knives, 1985"

Yet you still hear, occasionally, how a carbon steel edge will outcut a stainless one... And so many factory knives are still made in carbon steel there must be a lot of people who believe it... Even Randall themselves openly claim that their 0-1 knives at 54-56 RC outcut their 56-58 RC 440B by 10%, something I have a very hard time believing... But if even they can get it that far wrong, you have to wonder just how reliable are people trying to distinguish between stainless steels?

Gaston
 
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Added the S30V Michael Raymond Estrella Custom into the Coarse edge section. :)

60.5 - 61 RC and .006" behind the edge - 620 Cuts.
 
Quick Photo here of the S30V Michael Raymond Estrella.

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