Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

KalEl said:
Want to test a Scrap Yard Scrap MAX? I want to see how the busse HT Elmax stacks up to customs.
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^ that would be cool. Do you you know what hardness they ran it at? I know they ground it thin, i wonder if its too thin to put against other productions.
 
How would the 3G steels from Fallkniven compare - something like a TK2 that has a thinner edge than a 3G F1 or PHK?
Thanks,
George
 
KalEl said:
Jim,

Sent you PM

Spydusse,

I believe it is 60-62. I think thats about the sweet spot for Elmax.
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I thought elmaxs sweet spot was around 59-60 because its as quench hrc is only about 63. If i am wrong please correct me :-)
 
Hey Jim, i was just wondering if you could give me an educated guess on what category you believe 13c26 would fall under.
 
Thank you for your post.
Very consistent work, much better than I do :)
I like the idea of putting them in various levels based on bigger differences as opposed to more absolute rankings based on minor differences.
There is however the perplexing problem of edge retention with various types of edges.
As I'm sure you already know different steels perform differently at different angles. Many of the High carbide content steels are not meant to be sharpened at 15 degrees per side nor are they meant to hold a fine polished edge but will hold an edge at higher angles with a cruder, less "aggressive" edge for a LONG time, while other steels are meant to hold a very fine edge at a lower angle much better.
They are very different steels designed for very different types of jobs. (personally I'm a fan of the finer edge as opposed to the carbide heavy type, although I have to admit the carbide heavy ones do have their uses)
Grouping the different steels the way that you did does pose a possible solution to the problem and I can't help but wonder (and ask) if in fact you plan on adding new catagories for different types of edges?
 
ritterdl69 said:
Thank you for your post.
Very consistent work, much better than I do :)
I like the idea of putting them in various levels based on bigger differences as opposed to more absolute rankings based on minor differences.
There is however the perplexing problem of edge retention with various types of edges.
As I'm sure you already know different steels perform differently at different angles. Many of the High carbide content steels are not meant to be sharpened at 15 degrees per side nor are they meant to hold a fine polished edge but will hold an edge at higher angles with a cruder, less "aggressive" edge for a LONG time, while other steels are meant to hold a very fine edge at a lower angle much better.
They are very different steels designed for very different types of jobs. (personally I'm a fan of the finer edge as opposed to the carbide heavy type, although I have to admit the carbide heavy ones do have their uses)
Grouping the different steels the way that you did does pose a possible solution to the problem and I can't help but wonder (and ask) if in fact you plan on adding new catagories for different types of edges?
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I only use the Polished edge for these rankings alone.

The other testing is done with a semi polished edge and depending on the knives it could be 10 DPS edge angle.

I do comparisons of coarse edges directly in testing and or when I review a knife.

No, I don't plan on adding more groups with different angles and edge finishes as it's a given that all the steels will cut longer with coarse and thinner edges as well as thinner grinds.

That wasn't the purpose of this being done in the 1st place.

To get them all on an even plane, different angles, grinds etc it would cost one heck of a lot more money that I would ever put into it on a personal level and well above what I have already put out, much more than twice what I already have spent.

I am not rich so that won't happen, I just don't have the extra 15K or 20K to spend for new blades, have them all HRC tested, have them all reground and then test them all again.

The variables have been cut down to the min of what I can do by hand as described in the 1st post of the thread.
 
Ankerson said:
No, I don't plan on adding more groups with different angles and edge finishes as it's a given that all the steels will cut longer with coarse and thinner edges as well as thinner grinds.
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Jim, this doesn't seem to make sense - especially given the debacle of the CRK S35VN testing by CTS and yourself. In that case it would seem to go against what I underlined.

If you have a 10 or 15 degree per side edge angle (20* or 30* inclusive), I'd suspect that the blades would not only get raggedy but folding and denting.

Can You explain the above quote any better?

Another steel E.G. I have a new Endura 4 ZDP-189. I was advised not to run it thin or it would break up. I was advised that the large carbides in the ZDP required a more stout edge (like 40* and not polished) to work best. I don't consider that "cutting longer" or better.

So far this knife has only required stropping but one day I'll have to re-profile and I have no idea what the optimum inclusive setting whould be.
 
cziv said:
Jim, this doesn't seem to make sense - especially given the debacle of the CRK S35VN testing by CTS and yourself. In that case it would seem to go against what I underlined.

If you have a 10 or 15 degree per side edge angle (20* or 30* inclusive), I'd suspect that the blades would not only get raggedy but folding and denting.

Can You explain the above quote any better?

Another steel E.G. I have a new Endura 4 ZDP-189. I was advised not to run it thin or it would break up. I was advised that the large carbides in the ZDP required a more stout edge (like 40* and not polished) to work best. I don't consider that "cutting longer" or better.

So far this knife has only required stropping but one day I'll have to re-profile and I have no idea what the optimum inclusive setting whould be.
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The blades will cut more efficiently and taking less force (pressure) to get the job done and in the end that leads to better performance and edge retention in general.

I have the data to support this as well, also CATRA data supports this and it's been known for awhile.

It's best to start with thin grinds or have the blade reground rather than just reprofiling a blade to say 10 DPS though.
 
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