Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

ritterdl69 said:
As far as finding the right knife for me, I have plenty of time. I havn't tested out these steels yet.

As far as Diamond dust goes.....
There WAS a problem in the process, the dust is notoriously inconsistent throughout the blade. So much so that the ones that have been resharpened allot will many times have dips in the blade where the steel wears away much much faster due to the inconsistency of the diamond particles.
Remington made it pre WW2, exactly what years I don't know. That stuff however was not as hard to sharpen as it was before Remington bought out the company that made the really tuff stuff.
I THINK the name of that company was Royal, but I'm not certain. That's the Knife I have, and it has RH 36 stamped on the tang with what I am told is supposed to be a crown in an oval with "made in U S A" under the oval, the oval is in between the RH and the 36.
Remington Kept the same numbering system when they bought the company out and removed the symbol. That's how you know the difference you see.
I first heard about the steel from listening to my Dad and Uncles talking about it and how impossible it is to resharpen once the blade gets too dull (without spending an eternity redoing it like I did).
It was the super steel of it's day, and Ya, it's got a few drawbacks. So much so it's easy to see why they quite making it.
Who else made diamond dust steel I don't know. You are talking about knives that were made about 100 years ago, hard to dig up much info.
Regretably, I don't see a history on Remington's website.
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Erm, okay, I really hate to sound rude, but I sincerely doubt a WWII era combat/hunting knife would be made of diamond dust embedded steel for 2 reasons:
1) It's difficult enough to machine any steel with more than 4% Vanadium even with industrial tools. A custom maker is likely the only one willing to work with such exotic steels. It's also doubtful that diamond abrasives were common in WWII era, at least for the average Joe.
2) End user maintenance. If it's made for a combat/hunting role, it needs to be capable of being sharpened on the field. I sincerely doubt DMT was in the business of making pocket diamond sharpeners back in the day.

In all likelihood, that knife is probably made of D2 or some other tool steel. Google did not turn up any results on the steel used, but from the way it rusts I assume that would be the case.

Just out of curiosity, how are you sharpening your knives? If my hypothesis is right and your RH36 is plain jane D2, you might have trouble sharpening Elmax or M390 if you have problems getting that knife sharp.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Erm, okay, I really hate to sound rude, but I sincerely doubt a WWII era combat/hunting knife would be made of diamond dust embedded steel for 2 reasons:
1) It's difficult enough to machine any steel with more than 4% Vanadium even with industrial tools. A custom maker is likely the only one willing to work with such exotic steels. It's also doubtful that diamond abrasives were common in WWII era, at least for the average Joe.
2) End user maintenance. If it's made for a combat/hunting role, it needs to be capable of being sharpened on the field. I sincerely doubt DMT was in the business of making pocket diamond sharpeners back in the day.

I don't know if they were made DURING WW2 given the extreme war effort. All metals were on short supply. I think they are PRE WW2, but I can't be certain.
As far as production goes, the knives were hammered then ground as opposed to machined. They did most of the forging by hand, each knife individually. As opposed to cutting a blade out of a sheet then machined into shape. In either case the steel is tempered afterwards anyway making the process allot easier.
I have heard of custom makers using graphite or diamond dust, but only as a kid and that in reference to custom makers decades before I was born.
I have a hunch that the knife I have was likely to have been made by a custom maker who expanded, got a few employees and made a larger shop before getting bought out. But that's only a hunch. I don't know much about them.

The end user maintenance was in fact the major drawback. They did have special stones for steels like that. I have 2 of those stones, they are kind of yellowish white in color and I have no idea what they are made of (MAYBE a ceramic with something else in it, that's only a guess), or if they made different types. Ultra hard/tough steels are nothing new.

As far as sharpening goes, I use mainly sandstone and other natural stones. For the RH 36 I use those whitish yelowish things I have, they work better than the diamond sharpeners. ( I do have diamond sharpeners, and ceramic.)
For a finish I prefere either smooth steel sharpening rod or strop, depending on what knife I'm sharpening. Some knives seem to work better with one or the other.

I did a quick search and didn't pull anything up on diamond dust steel knife blades, they were made a LONG time ago so I'm not surprised. When I have more time I'll try again and maybe something will trigger my memory and I can find at least something on them.

And no, the knife I have is definately not tool steel, give me some credit.
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Diamond is carbon, which can dissolve in iron/steel at high temperature (steel is just iron with carbon dissolved in it). This is why high-speed machining does not use diamond, but instead uses cubic boron nitride.

For a reference, see this link:
http://www.gearsolutions.com/article/detail/5499/hard-choices-diamond-or-cbn
"Diamond could be dissolved in transition elements of iron group metals or their alloys above 900 C
In light of this, diamond cannot be used to grind steel or titanium alloys if the temperature exceeds 700 C. This makes it impossible for synthetic diamond to be used for the most common grinding applications, such as the grinding of hardened steel gears. This high rate of wear would make diamond uneconomical in comparison to CBN, or even other conventional abrasives."

The article also mentions additional problems with diamond and high temperature steel (see link for details).

I'm no metallurgy expert, but it seems steel and iron are forged at temperatures over 1000 C.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging_temperature

Sincerely,
--Lagrangian
 
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Noctis3880 said:
Erm, okay, I really hate to sound rude, but I sincerely doubt a WWII era combat/hunting knife would be made of diamond dust embedded steel for 2 reasons:
1) It's difficult enough to machine any steel with more than 4% Vanadium even with industrial tools. A custom maker is likely the only one willing to work with such exotic steels. It's also doubtful that diamond abrasives were common in WWII era, at least for the average Joe.
2) End user maintenance. If it's made for a combat/hunting role, it needs to be capable of being sharpened on the field. I sincerely doubt DMT was in the business of making pocket diamond sharpeners back in the day.

In all likelihood, that knife is probably made of D2 or some other tool steel. Google did not turn up any results on the steel used, but from the way it rusts I assume that would be the case.

Just out of curiosity, how are you sharpening your knives? If my hypothesis is right and your RH36 is plain jane D2, you might have trouble sharpening Elmax or M390 if you have problems getting that knife sharp.
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Lagrangian said:
Diamond is carbon, which can dissolve in iron/steel at high temperature (steel is just iron with carbon dissolved in it). This is why high-speed machining does not use diamond, but instead uses cubic boron nitride.

For a reference, see this link:
http://www.gearsolutions.com/article/detail/5499/hard-choices-diamond-or-cbn
"Diamond could be dissolved in transition elements of iron group metals or their alloys above 900 C
In light of this, diamond cannot be used to grind steel or titanium alloys if the temperature exceeds 700 C. This makes it impossible for synthetic diamond to be used for the most common grinding applications, such as the grinding of hardened steel gears. This high rate of wear would make diamond uneconomical in comparison to CBN, or even other conventional abrasives."

The article also mentions additional problems with diamond and high temperature steel (see link for details).

I'm no metallurgy expert, but it seems steel and iron are forged at temperatures over 1000 C.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging_temperature

Sincerely,
--Lagrangian
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i doubt a diamond particle steel was invented, let alone pre-WWII. the two posts above were exactly what i was thinking while reading this.

1. man made diamonds were first manufactured in the early 1950's.
2. diamonds wouldn't be able to remain as particles in molten steel
3. they use diamond to cut/lap diamond. if they did somehow make a diamond particle steel, how would a person sharpen it before readily available industrial diamond sharpeners?

if there was a "diamond steel", it was most likely a term used for marketing and not actual diamond particles suspended in steel. it was most likely a tool steel that surpassed the performance of the basic carbon steels that pretty much all knives were made out of back then.

ask yourself this: if they could make a diamond particle steel a hundred years ago, why can't they make it now? industrial diamonds are readily available and we have much better specialty steel capability now.
 
ritterdl69 said:
Noctis3880 said:
Erm, okay, I really hate to sound rude, but I sincerely doubt a WWII era combat/hunting knife would be made of diamond dust embedded steel for 2 reasons:
1) It's difficult enough to machine any steel with more than 4% Vanadium even with industrial tools. A custom maker is likely the only one willing to work with such exotic steels. It's also doubtful that diamond abrasives were common in WWII era, at least for the average Joe.
2) End user maintenance. If it's made for a combat/hunting role, it needs to be capable of being sharpened on the field. I sincerely doubt DMT was in the business of making pocket diamond sharpeners back in the day.
Click to expand...

I don't know if they were made DURING WW2 given the extreme war effort. All metals were on short supply. I think they are PRE WW2, but I can't be certain.
As far as production goes, the knives were hammered then ground as opposed to machined. They did most of the forging by hand, each knife individually. As opposed to cutting a blade out of a sheet then machined into shape. In either case the steel is tempered afterwards anyway making the process allot easier.
I have heard of custom makers using graphite or diamond dust, but only as a kid and that in reference to custom makers decades before I was born.
I have a hunch that the knife I have was likely to have been made by a custom maker who expanded, got a few employees and made a larger shop before getting bought out. But that's only a hunch. I don't know much about them.

The end user maintenance was in fact the major drawback. They did have special stones for steels like that. I have 2 of those stones, they are kind of yellowish white in color and I have no idea what they are made of (MAYBE a ceramic with something else in it, that's only a guess), or if they made different types. Ultra hard/tough steels are nothing new.

As far as sharpening goes, I use mainly sandstone and other natural stones. For the RH 36 I use those whitish yelowish things I have, they work better than the diamond sharpeners. ( I do have diamond sharpeners, and ceramic.)
For a finish I prefere either smooth steel sharpening rod or strop, depending on what knife I'm sharpening. Some knives seem to work better with one or the other.

I did a quick search and didn't pull anything up on diamond dust steel knife blades, they were made a LONG time ago so I'm not surprised. When I have more time I'll try again and maybe something will trigger my memory and I can find at least something on them.

And no, the knife I have is definately not tool steel, give me some credit.
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Then the steel used is likely much softer than I thought. Ceramic is good, but they come in too low grits(at least from Spyderco) to do much more than finishing and refining an already sharp edge. I suspect your diamond stone isn't very coarse since my X-Coarse DMT stone will eat away at anything in minutes. A common problem with both is that soft steels will clog them up with metal very quickly.

A yellow-white stone sounds almost like a Japanese waterstone or India oilstone, depending on how it wears. When you think about it, diamond is the hardest substance on earth, only capable of being abraded by other diamonds. So if you really did have a blade with diamond particles in it, you wouldn't be able to sharpen it with anything other than diamond.

So...yeah. I know vanadium carbide is a far cry from diamond, but I think you'll find it does pretty good:thumbup:.

As for your sharpening tools, abrasive grit size is often more important than abrasive type. So coarse sandpaper would work faster than fine diamond. I would recommend the XX-Coarse DMT stone if you feel sharpening is taking a while.
 
jimnolimit said:
i doubt a diamond particle steel was invented, let alone pre-WWII. the two posts above were exactly what i was thinking while reading this.

1. man made diamonds were first manufactured in the early 1950's.
2. diamonds wouldn't be able to remain as particles in molten steel
3. they use diamond to cut/lap diamond. if they did somehow make a diamond particle steel, how would a person sharpen it before readily available industrial diamond sharpeners?

if there was a "diamond steel", it was most likely a term used for marketing and not actual diamond particles suspended in steel. it was most likely a tool steel that surpassed the performance of the basic carbon steels that pretty much all knives were made out of back then.

ask yourself this: if they could make a diamond particle steel a hundred years ago, why can't they make it now? industrial diamonds are readily available and we have much better specialty steel capability now.
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Another major use of diamond powder is in the creation of tools, such as drill bits. To make these, powdered diamond is generally added to a molten pool of metal, spreading flecks of diamond throughout the metal. When the metal is cast into a tool shape, the diamond powder will remain in the metal, making it stronger.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-diamond-powder.htm

It's drill bits and not knife blades but obviously they are not putting Diamond powder in Solder or aluminum. So the theory that it's never been added to steel is gone.
And the date that they invented Synthetic diamonds is totaly irrelevant since diamond dust has been around since they first started cutting diamonds.
and Noctis3880, I never said a diamond sharpener wouldn't sharpen it I said the I have stones specaily made for that type of knife that do it better
you are REALY reaching for that one.

I'm getting tired people, really.
I came here in hopes of seeing if anyone might also have had some experience with a certain steel I bought.
To date, all I have gotten is poeple commenting on it without having ever had any experience with it.
Instead I get condecending attitudes about how somehow I'm incompetent to sharpen a simple high carbide steel. Seriously? it's not that hard. It's not rocket science.
anyhow I'm done here, and not impressed with what I have seen.
 
ritterdl69 said:
I'm getting tired people, really.
I came here in hopes of seeing if anyone might also have had some experience with a certain steel I bought.
To date, all I have gotten is poeple commenting on it without having ever had any experience with it.
Instead I get condecending attitudes about how somehow I'm incompetent to sharpen a simple high carbide steel. Seriously? it's not that hard. It's not rocket science.
anyhow I'm done here, and not impressed with what I have seen.
Click to expand...

Maybe because you are claiming experience that no one else(there's a whole planet of experience on this board)here has that's parallel to yours. You should understand that people will be skeptical of your declarations without looking at your posts front and back and from side to side. You probably have to show some kind of credentials(official or forum acceptable :p) before anything you say will be taken without question. Most of the people asking you questions really do want to know(I'm sure) if there is anything out there that can do what you say it can. These people have also shown themselves to be credible in their knowledge and experience.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt but somehow, I just get the feeling that you are not willing to go to more lengths to back your story up and gain "cred" here. For instance, Ankerson, the OP of this thread has gone through extraordinary lengths and expense to do the tests AND document them. That's why Ankerson has "cred" here. Most of the other guys here also have "cred" from their longevity in this forum and their previous posting history.
 
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There are sintered diamond abrasives. To make these, they use metal powder combined with diamond powder and compress these together with heat, but at a temperature below the melting point of the metal. What I am unsure about is what metal is used. For some details, you can see the links below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_blade
http://www.mtmist.org/info/whatis.html
http://www.mhc-online.com/catalog/foredom/dumont.htm

As far as I know, in sintered diamond, the diamond is the abrasive particle, and the metal is just a carrier matrix.

btw, this is different than electro-plated diamonds, such as in DMT diamond sharpening stones. Some of the links above discuss this. In the electro-plated diamonds, they typically use electro-plating of nickel to bind a layer of diamonds to the surface of steel. But in sintered diamonds, the diamonds are dispersed across a volume, not just the surface. As a result, sintered diamond abrasives last longer, and are more expensive than electroplated diamond abrasives.

As far as I know, diamonds sintered with metal have only been used as an abrasive for grinding. There are drill bits that are sintered diamond, but they are grinding drill bits and typically do not have flutes or any cutting edges. They are somewhat similar to the Dumont grinding burrs.

I've only heard about sintered diamond for grinding. So far, I don't know of any sintered diamond that is used in a blade that actually cuts.

Sincerely,
--Lagrangian
 
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ritterdl69 said:
Another major use of diamond powder is in the creation of tools, such as drill bits. To make these, powdered diamond is generally added to a molten pool of metal, spreading flecks of diamond throughout the metal. When the metal is cast into a tool shape, the diamond powder will remain in the metal, making it stronger.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-diamond-powder.htm

It's drill bits and not knife blades but obviously they are not putting Diamond powder in Solder or aluminum. So the theory that it's never been added to steel is gone.
And the date that they invented Synthetic diamonds is totaly irrelevant since diamond dust has been around since they first started cutting diamonds.
and Noctis3880, I never said a diamond sharpener wouldn't sharpen it I said the I have stones specaily made for that type of knife that do it better
you are REALY reaching for that one.

I'm getting tired people, really.
I came here in hopes of seeing if anyone might also have had some experience with a certain steel I bought.
To date, all I have gotten is poeple commenting on it without having ever had any experience with it.
Instead I get condecending attitudes about how somehow I'm incompetent to sharpen a simple high carbide steel. Seriously? it's not that hard. It's not rocket science.
anyhow I'm done here, and not impressed with what I have seen.
Click to expand...

brazing diamonds or adding them to aluminum is very different than adding them to steel. two main differences are heat and the actual material.

at high temperatures, diamonds start to break down. both braze and aluminum are low enough in temperature and time to not destroy the diamond particles.

the other main factor is the steel itself. diamonds are soluble in steel, that's why it's very uncommon to use diamond tools when machining steel and that's even when a coolant fluid is being used. if you added diamond powder to molten steel, the diamonds would dissolve in the steel and it would just end up at higher carbon steel.


why are you getting tired? because you're not getting the answers you wanted? you can't expect people to give you experience on a material that probably doesn't exist. i suspect that "diamond steel" was a marketing term and not an actual steel with diamond's embedded in it. if you look at diamond saws and drill bits, the diamonds are never suspended in or touching the steel, there is always a different and lower temperature metal used to hold the diamonds to the steel.
 
cziv said:
off topic but will diamonds melt in a fire - like a house fire?
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i doubt a house fire will get hot enough to break down (graphitize) diamonds.

from what i understand:
under normal atmospheric pressure, diamonds graphitize around 3000 fahrenheit (but i don't know if this temperature is for air, or in an inert gas environment).

but in the presence of iron, diamonds graphitize at around 1300 fahrenheit.
 
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Here is a long quotation about problems involving diamonds and steel, from the same link I posted above. In addition to diamonds dissolving in the metal, there are other problems, such as the reverse, namely metals dissolving into the diamonds. Also, the diamond may react with some types carbides and convert into non-diamond. See below for details:

Source:
http://www.gearsolutions.com/article/detail/5499/hard-choices-diamond-or-cbn

"Diamond will oxidize above 600 C into carbon-dioxide.

"Diamond has a tendency to react with the iron group metals (iron, cobalt, and nickel and its alloys) already at a temperature above 700 C. These metals are soluble in carbon, and diamond is just another form of carbon. Synthetic diamond is produced by catalytic conversion under high pressure, and metal inclusions of catalytic metal contaminate each crystal. Metal inclusions will convert the diamond back into a graphite type of carbon at temperatures above 700 C. Back-converted graphite expands inside the diamond crystal and creates microscopic cracks, which cause so-called "thermal weakening" of synthetic diamond.

"Diamond reacts with carbides (titanium-carbide, tungsten-carbide, and zirconium-carbide) already at a temperature above 700 C by converting back to amorphous carbon.

"Diamond will react with carbide formers (titanium and vanadium) above 800 C to convert into carbides.

"Diamond could be dissolved in transition elements of iron group metals or their alloys above 900 C.

"In light of this, diamond cannot be used to grind steel or titanium alloys if the temperature exceeds 700 C. This makes it impossible for synthetic diamond to be used for the most common grinding applications, such as the grinding of hardened steel gears. This high rate of wear would make diamond uneconomical in comparison to CBN, or even other conventional abrasives. "

Here is a link about metal-diamond matrix, but the metal does not include iron/steel:
http://www.electronics-cooling.com/...iamond-composites-love-and-heat-relationship/

Given the information that I have on hand, it would seem to be extraordinarily difficult to embed diamonds into iron or steel. As someone who is of a scientific bent, I tend to follow the Bayesian adage:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcello_Truzzi#.22Extraordinary_claims.22
 
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ritterdl69 said:
Another major use of diamond powder is in the creation of tools, such as drill bits. To make these, powdered diamond is generally added to a molten pool of metal, spreading flecks of diamond throughout the metal. When the metal is cast into a tool shape, the diamond powder will remain in the metal, making it stronger.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-diamond-powder.htm

It's drill bits and not knife blades but obviously they are not putting Diamond powder in Solder or aluminum. So the theory that it's never been added to steel is gone.
And the date that they invented Synthetic diamonds is totaly irrelevant since diamond dust has been around since they first started cutting diamonds.
and Noctis3880, I never said a diamond sharpener wouldn't sharpen it I said the I have stones specaily made for that type of knife that do it better
you are REALY reaching for that one.

I'm getting tired people, really.
I came here in hopes of seeing if anyone might also have had some experience with a certain steel I bought.
To date, all I have gotten is poeple commenting on it without having ever had any experience with it.
Instead I get condecending attitudes about how somehow I'm incompetent to sharpen a simple high carbide steel. Seriously? it's not that hard. It's not rocket science.
anyhow I'm done here, and not impressed with what I have seen.
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Huh? I'm just pointing out that the only thing that can abrade diamond is diamond itself, and so if your other stone isn't a diamond stone, it shouldn't be able to sharpen it. According to what I know anyways.

You also asked for a steel recommendation for the trait you wanted, mainly a fine razor edge without much of a tradeoff in toughness, in which case I believe I recommended a few: 13C26, M390, and Elmax.

I wouldn't say whether or not you're competent about sharpening a high carbide steel unless you mention one in particular, and whether or not you had a hard time with it.

I'm not sure you can really blame people here for the skepticism. I'm not a metallurgist, and I can't say for sure whether or not diamonds can't be in blade steels or not. I'm just saying I've been looking for exactly what you're discussing for the past few years since I first bought an S30V knife for the vanadium carbides and have yet to find one, or anyone working with it.

I think the closest might be a process of putting a layer of diamond on a chisel ground blade via CVD. I believe it was by Mike Snody, I vague recall seeing a video on it. Either that or he was just carbidizing a blade:D.
 
ritterdl69 said:
I have heard of custom makers using graphite or diamond dust, but only as a kid and that in reference to custom makers decades before I was born.
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you may have heard of graphite used to prevent decarb in forging, or to cover the surface of high temp salt pots. Graphite in a steel billet makes it free machining and does the exact opposite of what you are saying, it reduces the wear characteristics and makes the steel easier to grind. This is done on purpose and for several alloys. I don't think anyone else has ever heard of steel smelted with diamonds. As mentioned many times, diamond is carbon, and in iron it is just going to become diffused and loose the crystalline structure of diamond.

and your yellow-white stones may be belgian coticules, a natural stone with garnet as the abrasive
 
hardheart said:
you may have heard of graphite used to prevent decarb in forging, or to cover the surface of high temp salt pots. Graphite in a steel billet makes it free machining and does the exact opposite of what you are saying, it reduces the wear characteristics and makes the steel easier to grind. This is done on purpose and for several alloys. I don't think anyone else has ever heard of steel smelted with diamonds. As mentioned many times, diamond is carbon, and in iron it is just going to become diffused and loose the crystalline structure of diamond.

and your yellow-white stones may be belgian coticules, a natural stone with garnet as the abrasive
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That's possible (but unconfrimed, it may or may not be a Belgian Coticule). off hand I don't know how hard garnet is or it's composition.
I generally prefere natural stones to synthetic ones. Which if it is a natural stone with some abrasive in it that's hard enough then that would explain why I personaly have found it to be better than the diamond sharpener.

Now, this paragraph is just an exploration of possiblilities, conjecture, not to be taken as a serious claim.
Of course, diamond is known to be the hardest subtance so garnet is unlikely to be able to wear down diamond. but then again, synthetic aluminumcarbide stones work on steels with much harder carbides in it. It MIGHT still be possible since while the diamonds are harder, the steel holding them in place is not, simply wearing the steel away with the particles along with it. But that's conjecture based on Aluminum carbide not on the materials in question

As far as graphite goes, I don't know the reason why some knife maker reportedly added graphite to steel.
For that matter, I don't know why the diamond dust or powder was added to the steels knife I have either. It MIGHT have simply been the purest form of carbon available at the time (as opposed to putting charcoal in it)

I don't know enough about the steel or the stones to know allot of the answers to these questions.
I know they added diamond dust to the steel, but I don't know why, or if the diamonds remain in crystalline form or melt down to base carbon or not.
I know the steel is unbelievably hard to completely overhaul the sharpening surface like I had to do with this one (and I've redone that surface on more than a few knives, including a few VG 10's and SV30 blades people needed my help with with.) The blade LOOKS like it's stainless as far as color, but it rusts easily (not as easily as regular high carbon steel blades though. It's obviously some form of unknown alloy).
The stones I have do work better with it than anything else I have, but I don't know what they are made of or where they came from.
I was just commenting on personal experience in blades that are hard to sharpen and how this one in my experience was the hardest by a wide wide margin.
 
I never asked anything about the steel.
I mentioned the steel in passing because the topic led to the difficulties in sharpening some steels.
This particlar knife i brought up because i found it much much harder to work with than any other knife blade I have ever worked with.
That's it. But I'll tell you what, If i find another rare and unusual knife I will NEVER share anything about here ever again.
 
ritterdl69 said:
That's possible (but unconfrimed, it may or may not be a Belgian Coticule). off hand I don't know how hard garnet is or it's composition.
I generally prefere natural stones to synthetic ones. Which if it is a natural stone with some abrasive in it that's hard enough then that would explain why I personaly have found it to be better than the diamond sharpener.

Now, this paragraph is just an exploration of possiblilities, conjecture, not to be taken as a serious claim.
Of course, diamond is known to be the hardest subtance so garnet is unlikely to be able to wear down diamond. but then again, synthetic aluminumcarbide stones work on steels with much harder carbides in it. It MIGHT still be possible since while the diamonds are harder, the steel holding them in place is not, simply wearing the steel away with the particles along with it. But that's conjecture based on Aluminum carbide not on the materials in question
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I believe some people are confusing "Garnet" with "Sapphire" or "Ruby", which is aluminum oxide(not carbide), and is ranked 9 on the Moh's scale, diamond is 10. Garnet is somewhat random from 6.5 to 7.5 and thus not ideal as an abrasive for high carbide steels.

The hardest known metal carbide is vanadium carbide, with a Moh's hardness range of 9-9.5 or 2,400-2660 Knoop. It seems synthetic Alumina abrasive isn't pure Aluminum Oxide and can range from 2,000-2,600 Knoop. Silicon Carbide ranges from 2,000-3,700 Knoop. So it's not really set in stone that carbides in steel are harder than the abrasives used to sharpen them, there would be little point in putting them in there in the first place if that was the case, particularly for steels chosen to be used in knives. Granted, not all steels in knives were made for cutlery use, but a knife maker would hardly choose a steel with a good chunk of its carbides harder than modern abrasives.

ritterdl69 said:
I never asked anything about the steel.
I mentioned the steel in passing because the topic led to the difficulties in sharpening some steels.
This particlar knife i brought up because i found it much much harder to work with than any other knife blade I have ever worked with.
That's it. But I'll tell you what, If i find another rare and unusual knife I will NEVER share anything about here ever again.
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Not trying to be a dick, but that might be the best course of action in the future. If you don't want people commenting on what you say, it's best not to say it, because free speech means that people are free to disagree with you or contradict you:thumbup:.

Now if you really want to see a bunch of pricks exercising their right to free speech in an unpleasant manner, I would suggest going over to the folks in the Westboro Baptist Church:D.
 
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