Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

[Big Mike]

After a bunch of off topic argumentative posts you have the nerve to post this as a way of support your claims.

I will tell you though, when it comes to hard to sharpen some (not all, but some) of the turn of the century era diamond dust steel blades are the toughest I have seen. Much tougher than any modern High carbide I have sharpened. Although I admit I have not sharpened every kind out there. They (diamond dust steels) require specail stones (which I happen to have)...

Many real experienced folks challenge your claims and this is your response.

I never asked anything about the steel.
I mentioned the steel in passing because the topic led to the difficulties in sharpening some steels.
This particlar knife i brought up because i found it much much harder to work with than any other knife blade I have ever worked with.
That's it. But I'll tell you what, If i find another rare and unusual knife I will NEVER share anything about here ever again.

It's clear that you know more then most of us here, and are very "specail".


We will lament the lack of your contributions.





Big Mike

 

[jimnolimit]

As far as Diamond dust goes.....
There WAS a problem in the process, the dust is notoriously inconsistent throughout the blade. So much so that the ones that have been resharpened allot will many times have dips in the blade where the steel wears away much much faster due to the inconsistency of the diamond particles.
Remington made it pre WW2, exactly what years I don't know. That stuff however was not as hard to sharpen as it was before Remington bought out the company that made the really tuff stuff.
I THINK the name of that company was Royal, but I'm not certain. That's the Knife I have, and it has RH 36 stamped on the tang with what I am told is supposed to be a crown in an oval with "made in U S A" under the oval, the oval is in between the RH and the 36.
Remington Kept the same numbering system when they bought the company out and removed the symbol. That's how you know the difference you see.
I first heard about the steel from listening to my Dad and Uncles talking about it and how impossible it is to resharpen once the blade gets too dull (without spending an eternity redoing it like I did).
It was the super steel of it's day, and Ya, it's got a few drawbacks. So much so it's easy to see why they quite making it.
Who else made diamond dust steel I don't know. You are talking about knives that were made about 100 years ago, hard to dig up much info.
Regretably, I don't see a history on Remington's website.

after reading your earlier post i would be inclined to say you have something like this:

where did you get the notion that there was diamond dust is in this steel?

 

[cziv]

after reading your earlier post i would be inclined to say you have something like this:

where did you get the notion that there was diamond dust is in this steel?

Hey jimnolimit - you don't happen to know the steel that knife came in do you? Some old knives, like old wood in the wood pile get really seasoned and hard. Maybe he just thought it had diamonds in it because it was hard to sharpen or something?

 

[Noctis3880]

Geez, chill out on the new guy. We were all knife scrubs once remember? Oh wait, was it just me?

I've had a few WTF moments with knives, flashlights, and lasers when I first started. Still better than people who've been here a while and never learn like a certain Vagisil that we all love and miss:thumbup:.

I'm more interested in whatever high carbide steels he has. The RH36 looks like a real classic, I might grab one just for giggles. I like how it gets a dark patina instead of building up a hunk of red rust. Definitely not D2 that one. Can't say it feels like 1095 either. Maybe O2?

 

[cziv]

Geez, chill out on the new guy. We were all knife scrubs once remember? Oh wait, was it just me?

I've had a few WTF moments with knives, flashlights, and lasers when I first started. Still better than people who've been here a while and never learn like a certain Vagisil that we all love and miss:thumbup:.

I'm more interested in whatever high carbide steels he has. The RH36 looks like a real classic, I might grab one just for giggles. I like how it gets a dark patina instead of building up a hunk of red rust. Definitely not D2 that one. Can't say it feels like 1095 either. Maybe O2?

They might not be that easy to pick up Noctis. I was serious about my comment and I've read it here on this forum that steel can harden with age. I had a Korean War bayonet (Camillus stamped, steel unknown) and my goodness that thing was like - made out of diamond dust, no lie. I had to restore it for a friend.

It had a broken tip and to get the shape I had to use a bastard file to reshape it. After getting it looking like new, resharpened it on DMT stones, then forced a patina to make it old & gray looking and match the shiny areas where I worked and even the new edge.

It came out sweeet! He was so happy cuz it was his grandpa's bayonet from way back then.:thumbup:

 

[chiral.grolim]

The RH36 blade looks like the Cattaraugus 225Q whose steel hasn't been confirmed - I've heard/read 1095 and also O1 but both are speculative since I think military requirement for the steel was simply ~1% carbon and maybe the company had more experience or a better deal on one formulation vs another? Catt225Q's are easy to pick up but may require some TLC if you can't find a relatively unused one...

Catt225Q has a better pommel design as well

But can the thread get back to the OP? Has Buck's 420HC and SYKCO's Elmax been tested yet?

 

[Noctis3880]

They might not be that easy to pick up Noctis. I was serious about my comment and I've read it here on this forum that steel can harden with age. I had a Korean War bayonet (Camillus stamped, steel unknown) and my goodness that thing was like - made out of diamond dust, no lie. I had to restore it for a friend.

It had a broken tip and to get the shape I had to use a bastard file to reshape it. After getting it looking like new, resharpened it on DMT stones, then forced a patina to make it old & gray looking and match the shiny areas where I worked and even the new edge.

It came out sweeet! He was so happy cuz it was his grandpa's bayonet from way back then.:thumbup:

I did hear about age hardening, but if it really hardens the steel to the point where it becomes difficult to sharpen(sounds like Rc 60-ish if the bastard file still abrades it), wouldn't that make it brittle as well? I'm kind of tempted to buy one just to spruce it up, though I'm not sure how vulnerable to rust that steel is and whether or not it would be a good idea with the weather here in Hawaii.

 

[nccole]

So, Jim, sorry to see you thread hi-jacked, but the green PM2 with CTS-204P is coming soon. I know this is basically M390, but do you have one coming and if so are you planning on testing it or just saying it is basically the same? Or have you had your hands on some already?

 

[Ankerson]

So, Jim, sorry to see you thread hi-jacked, but the green PM2 with CTS-204P is coming soon. I know this is basically M390, but do you have one coming and if so are you planning on testing it or just saying it is basically the same? Or have you had your hands on some already?

Don't have one coming, will run one if I get one in to test.

 

[hardheart]

I believe some people are confusing "Garnet" with "Sapphire" or "Ruby", which is aluminum oxide(not carbide), and is ranked 9 on the Moh's scale, diamond is 10. Garnet is somewhat random from 6.5 to 7.5 and thus not ideal as an abrasive for high carbide steels.

Coticules and Belgian blue stones are natural hones mined in the Ardennes area and the abrasive is spessartite garnet.

 

[Ankerson]

Added 420 HC into Category 8, Buck 110.

 

[Slider817]

Added 420 HC into Category 8, Buck 110.

Wow, very interesting results, great idea to test that one.

Just another gratuitous plug for 8cr13mov , I think it would be a good baseline for people to judge higher performance and higher priced steels.

 

[nccole]

Added 420 HC into Category 8, Buck 110.

Were you surprised at all? The general tone I have gotten from people on here concerning Buck's 420 HC might surprise some guys and maybe disappoint them.

 

[Noctis3880]

Were you surprised at all? The general tone I have gotten from people on here concerning Buck's 420 HC might surprise some guys and maybe disappoint them.

Maybe slightly disappointed? Though it's low alloy and fairly cheap. Granted, it doesn't seem like a Chinese steel had been tested yet. Still, nice to know H1 doesn't slack off for being rust-proof.

 

[Ankerson]

Not really sure what people really expected.

It's a pretty low alloy steel (Low carbide content) and the edge was pretty beat up after testing, would still cut paper though so it wasn't dull.

 

[ritterdl69]

after reading your earlier post i would be inclined to say you have something like this:

where did you get the notion that there was diamond dust is in this steel?

WOW! Didn't think a pic would be on the web. Nice find :thumbup:
Mine has red hard rubber spaces in stead of black, and the stacked leather is isn't in anywhere near as good of shape. And sadly, neither is the blade. Mine might be older maybe? Not sure.
I can tell you though that's not a WW2 fighting knife
And RH does not stand for Remington Hunting. The fact that it has the symbol in the middle marks it as pre-Remington buyout. Remington Sheath Knives made in the forties don't have the symbol in the middle, no Remington knife in fact will have that symbol. It's the sybol used by the shop that Remington Bought out before WW2.
That said, it COULD have been USED as a fighting knife during WW2. Allot of military personel had their own knives that the Gov didn't supply that they used.

Anyway the advertisements of the day made the claim about Diamond dust.

 

[ritterdl69]

I didn't expect 420HC blades made in China to hold up well. Buck once made 440 blades made in the USA. 440a and 440c and possibly another type of 440 i'm not sure. Those blades would probably do allot better. I still have the 119 special I bought when I was a teen. That one is 440c.

 

[Fancier]

My Buck has USA stamped on the blade. It is a recent 482 made of 420HC.

 

[ritterdl69]

Geez, chill out on the new guy. We were all knife scrubs once remember? Oh wait, was it just me?

I've had a few WTF moments with kn

ives, flashlights, and lasers when I first started. Still better than people who've been here a while and never learn like a certain Vagisil that we all love and miss:thumbup:.

I'm more interested in whatever high carbide steels he has. The RH36 looks like a real classic, I might grab one just for giggles. I like how it gets a dark patina instead of building up a hunk of red rust. Definitely not D2 that one. Can't say it feels like 1095 either. Maybe O2?

It does patina black, and in interesting fashion. It doesn't grey like reg high carbon steel does it remains shiny with black patina. However it does rust , just slower than reg high carbon steel so be sure to keep it oiled. Ya it's a real "classic" all right. I have to warn you though the blade chips easy, it was made to brittle. I'm not sure about age hardening, have not heard that before but anything is possible. I do know some lumber saw blades self temper the more they are used but not sure if that is at all related.
I do know from my relatives who know about that particlar line of knives, (some of them owning them from back in the day, my father has the Remington version inhertited from my grandfather) both before and after Remington's buy out is that they are notoriously difficult to sharpen and a bit to brittle. More so the pre-Remington ones. So this knife must have been that way from the start.
I tried using a sharpening steel with it and all it did was add a few chips to the blade. That's why I only use a strop for finishing the edge on that particular knife
For those who don't know one way to find those tiny chips is by running your fingernail along the edge, you can feel them. A little trick I learned from a barber who used to sharpen his razors once.

As far as what type of steel it is.......
Good luck. As far as I know the contents (apart from diamond dust) have never been revealed. Propeitary secrets I think.
The steel wasn't forged or smelted anything like any steel today so I'm not sure you can find a relative match for it. That steel probably would have been smelted in a crucible in rather small batches, poured into the right size ingots and hammer forged into shape.
.
As far as owning modern High carbide blades I don't. I have sharpened them for other people more than a few times which is how I know what they are like from that angle (no pun intened) but can't rate steels for edge retension using them as a standard as I can only go by what the owners of the knives I have sharpened tell me.

 

[ritterdl69]

Cool! Good to know Buck has seen fit to employ USA workers. Good for them.
Well, SOME buck knives are made in China then, I stand corrected.