Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

The carbide content in SG2 should be pretty modest so I don't consider SG2's results to be out of line. In fact it lines up with others results that have been talked about here.

I have two SG2 knives. Both Kershaws. It's a good steel with a nice grain structure. It sharpens easily and takes nice thin edges. IMO it's not up to S30V levels in toughness or wear resistance but it does thin edges better. I've also seen a couple of complaints on SG2 edges failing in hard use on Falkniven knives. It typically has happened to people who don't know higher carbide, higher hardness knives will chip out easier despite being much more expensive than old aus6/440A inexpensive knives they had in the past and claim to have used harder. That doesn't surprise me though. Cost is no guarantee a steel will do everything you want it to.

It's a good steel in it's element but like any steel it doesn't do very good at things it's not really designed to do.

Joe
 
Thanks joe, comparing two japanese steels here I was surprised to see vg-1 ranked so much higher then sg2 when it's hardness and composition are quite different. I agree sg2 works well in thin edges with good edge stability due to it 62-63 HRC.
 
Thanks joe, comparing two japanese steels here I was surprised to see vg-1 ranked so much higher then sg2 when it's hardness and composition are quite different. I agree sg2 works well in thin edges with good edge stability due to it 62-63 HRC.
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Hey Gine. My guess about the VG1 in particular would be the coarser grain structure cutting the fibers better or longer in this case. It's very much like 19C Sandvik steel and it has mostly coarse chrome carbides with no powder process or anything that really contributes to smaller grain structures. It's sort of the reason D2 knives make good hunting/skinning knives as it saws through hair, skin and flesh better than a super fine grained steel. Once again I'm just speaking generalities. VG1's performance above SG2's doesn't necessarily make it better steel overall. Not unless wear resistance on this type medium is the only way you grade steels for personal use. This is a great indicator of differences in abrasive wear resistance but shouldn't be the only way steels are selected.

I've seen the edges on the knives that Jim uses and he really does make things as consistent as he can. If he says something I tend to believe him but I know him personally too, and that helps. He has been around knives about the same amount of time as I have and we have both ended up pretty close in choices of user steels and platforms to cut with. Some differences though. I like tool steels more and he does more work with true super steels. He has worked with some of the bigger names in the business on this project too but they have chosen to remain more behind the scenes in supportive roles.

Any how that's how I see it. Jim will correct any discrepancies I have here hopefully.

Thanks,

Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Hey Gine. My guess about the VG1 in particular would be the coarser grain structure cutting the fibers better or longer in this case. It's very much like 19C Sandvik steel and it has mostly coarse chrome carbides with no powder process or anything that really contributes to smaller grain structures. It's sort of the reason D2 knives make good hunting/skinning knives as it saws through hair, skin and flesh better than a super fine grained steel. Once again I'm just speaking generalities. VG1's performance above SG2's doesn't necessarily make it better steel overall. Not unless wear resistance on this type medium is the only way you grade steels for personal use. This is a great indicator of differences in abrasive wear resistance but shouldn't be the only way steels are selected.

I've seen the edges on the knives that Jim uses and he really does make things as consistent as he can. If he says something I tend to believe him but I know him personally too, and that helps. He has been around knives about the same amount of time as I have and we have both ended up pretty close in choices of user steels and platforms to cut with. Some differences though. I like tool steels more and he does more work with true super steels. He has worked with some of the bigger names in the business on this project too but they have chosen to remain more behind the scenes in supportive roles.

Any how that's how I see it. Jim will correct any discrepancies I have here hopefully.

Thanks,

Joe
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Joe,

Some steels just work better at cutting rope with a polished edge than others do so you are correct. :)

Change the edge finish to a coarse edge and things will change as you know as the smaller differences show up between the steels and some will do somewhat better.

But in the end alloy content will still be king in this type of testing.


Jim
 
I wish this test was here locally, I'd love to see my sujihiki with polished bevel give it a go.

It's Swedish steel by misono. In my opinion it has fairly good edge retention.

Slicing chopping and cutting 6-8 hours a day in a restaurant and I sharpen once a week if needed.

I have been modifying bevel techniques for longer lasting services.
 
But in the end alloy content will still be king in this type of testing.
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Thanks Jim.

As much cutting as you do it would have to be a factor. At some point, all else being equal, those hard vanadium and tungsten carbides will do exactly what they are there to do.

Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Thanks Jim.

As much cutting as you do it would have to be a factor. At some point, all else being equal, those hard vanadium and tungsten carbides will do exactly what they are there to do.

Joe
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Yep, the type of carbides will make the difference like in the M390 vs S90V shootout with the coarse edge, S90V won out due to the high percentage of Vanadium Carbides, 9% vs 4% for M390.
 
The analogy that always pops into my mind is cement/concrete. Aggregate is a good thing, to a point. Too much or too little doesn't work very well.
 
The Mastiff said:
Hey Gine. My guess about the VG1 in particular would be the coarser grain structure cutting the fibers better or longer in this case. It's very much like 19C Sandvik steel and it has mostly coarse chrome carbides with no powder process or anything that really contributes to smaller grain structures. It's sort of the reason D2 knives make good hunting/skinning knives as it saws through hair, skin and flesh better than a super fine grained steel. Once again I'm just speaking generalities. VG1's performance above SG2's doesn't necessarily make it better steel overall. Not unless wear resistance on this type medium is the only way you grade steels for personal use. This is a great indicator of differences in abrasive wear resistance but shouldn't be the only way steels are selected.

I've seen the edges on the knives that Jim uses and he really does make things as consistent as he can. If he says something I tend to believe him but I know him personally too, and that helps. He has been around knives about the same amount of time as I have and we have both ended up pretty close in choices of user steels and platforms to cut with. Some differences though. I like tool steels more and he does more work with true super steels. He has worked with some of the bigger names in the business on this project too but they have chosen to remain more behind the scenes in supportive roles.

Any how that's how I see it. Jim will correct any discrepancies I have here hopefully.

Thanks,

Joe
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Good point joe, all makes sense to me:cool:

I trust jim's testing too, I just wanted an explanation:)
 
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Ankerson said:
Yep, the type of carbides will make the difference like in the M390 vs S90V shootout with the coarse edge, S90V won out due to the high percentage of Vanadium Carbides, 9% vs 4% for M390.
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I know that chromium carbides are not as hard as vanadium ones. I was just curious if anyone knows what percent of the chromium is tied up in carbides in S90V and in M390 for the above shootout? I know Bohler's website states that 12% of M390's chromium is still free for corrosion resistance. But does that mean a full 8% is left to make carbides?
 
Steel130 said:
I know that chromium carbides are not as hard as vanadium ones. I was just curious if anyone knows what percent of the chromium is tied up in carbides in S90V and in M390 for the above shootout? I know Bohler's website states that 12% of M390's chromium is still free for corrosion resistance. But does that mean a full 8% is left to make carbides?
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The percentages will vary depending on HT/ tempering process.
 
Jim, I've lost track of which of the tested knives were Military variants - do you have a sense of how the various variants stack up against each other (S30V, XHP, M4, M390, S90V, etc.)?
 
JNewell said:
Jim, I've lost track of which of the tested knives were Military variants - do you have a sense of how the various variants stack up against each other (S30V, XHP, M4, M390, S90V, etc.)?
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CPM D2, S30V and XHP (Military)

S90V, CTS 20CP (Para 2)


All Military's tested with a coarse edge to highlight the differences in the steels. (Same method, but with a coarse edge instead of polished)

S90V - 460 (60 RC)
M390 - 380 (61 RC)
S30V - 300 (60 RC)
CTS-XHP - 240 (60.5 RC)
 
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Update,,,,

Coarse edge testing added into 1st post at the bottom to show the smaller differences in the steels.
 
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