Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

The CPM 4V looks a LOT like Vanadis 4E on paper. I would love to see the data on both of them. The initial Crucible numbers seemed to indicate that 4V had toughness about halfway between that of A2 and 3V (maybe L6 range) and wear resistance more like that of CPM S35VN.
 
Joe,
I have not found a good source for 9V yet, but my 4V I am getting between 62 and 64. The knife I plan to send to Jim tested at 62.
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Thanks Chris. The only test results from steel companies I've seen on 9V have been at pretty low hardness's. I've always been curious as to what a real knifemaker could/would run it at, and if the higher hardness's would make it less tough to the point that using the easier to find A11 class steels would be easier.

CPM 4V has been one that made sense and filled a slot that should be filled. Rc 62-64 is higher than I expected though. Does it pass your toughness requirements at that level?

Thanks,

Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Thanks Chris. The only test results from steel companies I've seen on 9V have been at pretty low hardness's. I've always been curious as to what a real knifemaker could/would run it at, and if the higher hardness's would make it less tough to the point that using the easier to find A11 class steels would be easier.

CPM 4V has been one that made sense and filled a slot that should be filled. Rc 62-64 is higher than I expected though. Does it pass your toughness requirements at that level?

Thanks,

Joe
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So far it seems to be an excellent steel. Crucible's target hardness in the data sheets I have say 62 to 64. In this range it is supposed to give you comparable toughness to 3V with edge holding between 3V and M4. With my first test knife, at .012" behind the edge, I processed about 15 pounds of cardboard into 3" squares and it was still very sharp. About 15 seconds on a strop and it would have topped hairs. I think that is pretty good edge retention. I never seem to thoroughly test my knives for toughness cause someone always manages to need one tougher for "cutting their para cord or spreading peanut butter", but after cross batonning a 1.5" square piece of cedar about 10 times, including through a knot three times, there were no edge issues I saw. I consider this type of usage abuse to a knife, especially with that thin edge, but the 4V seemed to come through with fling colors.

I designed a new knife for use with the 4V over the weekend. It is a thin and narrow bladed knife similar to a Puuko but full tang. I plan to grind it to a near zero edge and really test this one. It will be my new carry knife and work knife. I have always been a big fan of 3V, and I am very excited for 4V. It may be my new favorite for 4" to 6" blades.

I will get the knife shipped to Jim on Monday after the Holiday.
 
I gotta see this one. Where did I get this addiction? All I ever cut now are deer, hogs, feed sacks and bail twine. Maybe I should be looking for a bullet or broadhead that quarters the critters up on impact. I can get them to stand close to an ice chest and have them fall in.
 
Chris, where were you able to find 4V?
Big Chris said:
So far it seems to be an excellent steel. Crucible's target hardness in the data sheets I have say 62 to 64. In this range it is supposed to give you comparable toughness to 3V with edge holding between 3V and M4. With my first test knife, at .012" behind the edge, I processed about 15 pounds of cardboard into 3" squares and it was still very sharp. About 15 seconds on a strop and it would have topped hairs. I think that is pretty good edge retention. I never seem to thoroughly test my knives for toughness cause someone always manages to need one tougher for "cutting their para cord or spreading peanut butter", but after cross batonning a 1.5" square piece of cedar about 10 times, including through a knot three times, there were no edge issues I saw. I consider this type of usage abuse to a knife, especially with that thin edge, but the 4V seemed to come through with fling colors.

I designed a new knife for use with the 4V over the weekend. It is a thin and narrow bladed knife similar to a Puuko but full tang. I plan to grind it to a near zero edge and really test this one. It will be my new carry knife and work knife. I have always been a big fan of 3V, and I am very excited for 4V. It may be my new favorite for 4" to 6" blades.

I will get the knife shipped to Jim on Monday after the Holiday.
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Niagara is where I got it. It was customer requested.
 
Yeah, I will not buy 3V from them unless I have to, but they were the only ones I could find that had 4V in stock. Their 3V is almost doubke what I normally pay for it.
The 4V seems to be a very nice steel to work with though. Simple easy heat treat and some very nice attributes for fine edge knives.
 
I would like to see some more makers use Bohler's K110 basically their version of D2. See how it performs compared to CPM-D2 ect.
 
I think 4V is available for more than a year and I'm very surprised it hasn't been tried more.
I haven't seen many knives with 4V.
Maybe it's because it isn't stainless?

But 3V exist for quite some years and only the last 3 years it's more common used.
 
Neo said:
I think 4V is available for more than a year and I'm very surprised it hasn't been tried more.
I haven't seen many knives with 4V.
Maybe it's because it isn't stainless?

But 3V exist for quite some years and only the last 3 years it's more common used.
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I see where Mike Stewart at Bark River Knives, who has quite a few models in CPM-3V in production, has a prototype run of Gameskeeper/Montana Guide knives in CPM-4V in the pipeline.

It will be interesting to see how this steel performs.





Big Mike
 
The more interesting stuff might be the PSF 27, the German spray formed modified D2 type steel. I has some vandium added and if you believe that charts, it appears to have the impact resistance of A2, but with twice the wear resistance and it still has 12% chrome so it should be pretty corrosion resistant.
Steel130 said:
I would like to see some more makers use Bohler's K110 basically their version of D2. See how it performs compared to CPM-D2 ect.
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At those prices it might be some time before we begin seeing 4V production knives in large quantities or many different models.
 
Their listed prices for the other steels like 3V do not reflect what even the small custom maker can get them for from Aldo or others. Niagra's apples to apples prices for a 6 inch wide piece of 3V is at least 35% higher than what Aldo has it for on his website.
The Mastiff said:
At those prices it might be some time before we begin seeing 4V production knives in large quantities or many different models.
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Little heads up. I got a price on the PSF 27 and in the BIG sheets (24 x 72) is seems to be competitively priced on a per pound basis with what you can get the "full" 24 x 36 sheets of CPM D2 for. That means that it is a fair bit cheaper than any of the CPM stainless blends and even a bit cheaper than 3V. On paper, the PSF 27 appears to be an improvement chemically over D2, PM or otherwise with the addition of the vanadium. On the "chart," it appears to be almost in in the same class as the 4V or the Vanadis 4E. I plan to talk to Scott Devanna about this stuff after the holiday weekend.
 
It's almost like a tougher non stainless S30V. similar amounts of C and V but less CR.
 
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