Real men carry slippies.

It seems to me that there are lots of people posting in the "traditional folders & fixed blades" forum who really don't like them, or at least who don't give a hoot. Why post here, touting the virtues of modern, high-tech, "tactical" knives and regaling the shortcomings of the traditional tools? There are plenty of other forums to do that. This one is for expression of enjoyment and appreciation of those traditional knives, isn't it?

There are lots of people who carry and enjoy both, nothing wrong with that. Most of us don't see our lockbacks as tactical, we see them as convenient. We see our slipjoints as a nice walk in the past, and enjoyable knives to use. What's wrong with that?

It's when you try to build up one by tearing down the other then people take exception. If your "side" is so much better, that wouldn't be necessary. It's also not necessary to take sides, I like both of them.

The main thing I learned from this thread is that Scagel started the tactical knife scene. Cool! :p ;)

PS - I forgot to mention, the title of this thread is a good example. Real men don't give a &^*% what anyone else thinks of them, regardless of what they carry, wear, earn, etc.
 
First off, I don't want anyone to get me wrong. I love slip joints. I do, however, feel the need to point out that lockbacks are traditional. They've been around for a long time. Same goes for liner locks. The big diference between traditionals and modern tacticals with liner locks is that in they used to be more of a back-up. They were used in addition to, not instead of, a backspring.

Leo
 
For me, it has to do with my age(maybe) and I've grown up in the age of "modern" tactical knives as the tools of choice. A slippie is what my grandfather carried on the farm-not what I carry at the firehouse.

I agree with others in that I don't have to knock down someone else to make myself feel better. "All good, just different" seems to fit here.

A couple weeks back we responded to a fire at the local refinery. Must've been some hard for those "real men" to get out of there and let us do the work. It might well have killed some of them to know that at least four guys were carrying wannabe tough-guy knives....:D;)
 
So I guess this guy never finds himself holding something in one hand and needing to get out and use his knife with the other?

Sorry folks but the Spyderhole is without a doubt the single most important development since folding knives themselves.

I've been thinking about this post a lot since I first read it. You see, my name is mnblade and I am a recovering Spyderholic ("Hi, mnblade!"). I still admire Sal Glesser and think highly of Spyderco's products. I just came to the conclusion that most of the time, they're not for me.

Why? Well, first let's talk about the odds of finding yourself holding something in one hand and "needing" to get out and use his knife with the other. I bought my first Spyderco in summer of 1998 and carried one fairly regularly for the next eight years or so. In that time, I had exactly ONE occasion where I was securing something with one hand and was thankful to be able to draw my Endura with my right hand and make the cut. What was it? I was tying up a tarp over a campsite because we figured rain was coming in. It was, and my wife and I were able to enjoy some refreshing adult beverages under the tarp that night as the Central Florida rains pounded everything around us. But, did I "need" to be able to cut that line one-handed, or was it merely more convenient for me? Again - one instance in EIGHT YEARS.

But this doesn't answer the question about why I now (and why - as this thread shows - a lot of working guys) carry more-traditional pocketknives. The truth is, I've found they cut better.

A big single-blade one-hand opener might be great for dramatically slashing that boat line to save the lives of scores of passengers or whatever, and it might be fine for sprinting to the site of the horrid wreck on the highway and cutting free a passenger seconds before the car bursts into flames! :rolleyes: But you know what? For the real, day-to-day cutting that I do, a comparatively thin, narrow blade like what's on my Old Timer Middleman Jack, SAKs, or Case Sodbuster Junior does the job a lot better.

My Spydercos (and I've owned a bunch) just don't work as well when it comes to trimming the itchy tag off my two-year-old's new pajamas, cutting up an apple for the kids, opening mail, whittling a stick, opening small plastic packages of screws, sharpening pencils and so forth. And big cutting jobs? I swear to you cutting up a large cardboard box with my Case Peanut was really not all that much more difficult than it was with a Spyderco Military (serrated!).

In truth, I found that time and again I was giving up real-world cutting performance for the CONVENIENCE of one-hand opening and for the luxury of a better steel (again, I really respect Sal Glesser and tip my cap to him for his use of wonderful steels).

Hey, I have no beef with Spyderco …. I own, love and recommend their Sharpmaker to anyone who needs a good sharpening system. And if someone insists on carrying a high-tech, clip-on type knife, I will ALWAYS steer them in the direction of Spyderco. But high-tech materials and trendiness aside, my slipjoint pocketknives simply do a better just of cutting the things I NEED to cut.
 
^^ Good sentiments posted above, mnblade. I agree on most of those points. I've carried a super-overbuilt one-hander for years, and when I think about it honestly, there are precious few instances when it was necessary to have a quick-opening knife of that type. I still keep one clipped in the sleeve/shoulder pocket of my float-coat, in case I need it for an emergency at work (Spyderco Salt 1 - rust-proof, serrated, purely an "oh sh!t" tool), but for every-day cutting chores a slipjoint works fine for me. It draws less criticism from the masses, is smaller & more comfortable (to carry, hold, etc.), and honestly cuts better than a thicker blade. That's why I've also carried slipjoint for years - since I was a child.
Granted, sometimes at work it's handy to have a one-hander, when I'm doing some really rough work and need an all-purpose flat piece of metal that happens to be sharp... for those instances, I *might* use an Emerson... My cqc7 works great for marine industry work, since everything in that environment is flat & made of steel. That's one of the only situations when I've found a 'tanto' blade to be actually useful; it's got very little practical application in any other environment - no good in the woods or the kitchen, IMO.
Hence my appreciation for both sides of the fence. The grass is equally green on either side, depending on how the light hits it.
 
I for years have carried both types. For the last 2 months I have only carried a slip joint to see if I would miss my one-hander. The answer is not really. I have found I miss the knife clipped to the top of my pocket more than anything. Having a very dirty, wet, and or cold hand and needing my knife the clipped one-hander was a heck of allot easier to get than my slip joint pocketknife. But the one hand function I haven't missed. I like both types but if I’m only going to carry one knife I guess it will depend on if I feel like a real man that day or not. :) :D
 
I for years have carried both types. For the last 2 months I have only carried a slip joint to see if I would miss my one-hander. The answer is not really. I have found I miss the knife clipped to the top of my pocket more than anything. Having a very dirty, wet, and or cold hand and needing my knife the clipped one-hander was a heck of allot easier to get than my slip joint pocketknife. But the one hand function I haven't missed. I like both types but if I’m only going to carry one knife I guess it will depend on if I feel like a real man that day or not. :) :D

See again this is where a belt sheath really works for me. I love slijoints and will always carry them. Always.. But digging in my pocket with a cold, wet, dirty hand just don't get it as db stated!. The belt sheath carry method alleviates that delima entirely in the absents of a belt clip.:)
 
I think the word "tactical" is thrown around too often, there are one hand opening knives that are certainly not "tactical".

My current favourite is the Benchmade 440 Opportunist, a nice, light knife with a well thought out blade of excellent steel that cuts like there's no tomorrow.

One hand opening comes in handy quite often for me, when fixing things around the house (when I moved I found my Kershaw Scallion really helpful since I usually had only one hand free to open the knife). I can't see what's wrong with a knife that is easily opened with one hand.

I do hate those weird marketing pieces some companies call knives, folders with axe-thick blades and strange grinds, uncomfortable handles, etc.

What I don't understand is "tactical" folder use outdoors, as soon as I get away from the city (which is luckily quite often) I get a fixed blade on my belt, which makes the whole one hand opening concept a bit useles. A stockman is a lot better as a back up for my fixed blade, since it can handle more detail work than most modern one hand openers.

Traditionals give me more aesthetical pleasure, I like using my Delica, but I enjoy my Case CV trapper a lot more.
 
See again this is where a belt sheath really works for me. I love slijoints and will always carry them. Always.. But digging in my pocket with a cold, wet, dirty hand just don't get it as db stated!. The belt sheath carry method alleviates that delima entirely in the absents of a belt clip.:)

That was the way we always carried our pocket knives in the army. Due to the way the pants pockets were cut on those old olive drab fatigue pants, a knife fell out of the pocket darn near every time you sat down. The solution was to take some olive drab nylon webbing, and sew up a simple pouch sheath that swallowed the whole knife almost up to the top bolster. It stayed put that way, and if we had wet, greesy, or dirty hands, we just squeezed the bottom of the nylon sheath like a tube of toothpaste and up came the knife.

I see alot of nylon belt pouches for sale these days. Its a nice way to carry a slippie and being able to get to it, even sitting seat belted in a car. they even have velcro flaps on them.
 
That was the way we always carried our pocket knives in the army. Due to the way the pants pockets were cut on those old olive drab fatigue pants, a knife fell out of the pocket darn near every time you sat down. The solution was to take some olive drab nylon webbing, and sew up a simple pouch sheath that swallowed the whole knife almost up to the top bolster. It stayed put that way, and if we had wet, greesy, or dirty hands, we just squeezed the bottom of the nylon sheath like a tube of toothpaste and up came the knife.

I see alot of nylon belt pouches for sale these days. Its a nice way to carry a slippie and being able to get to it, even sitting seat belted in a car. they even have velcro flaps on them.

Great idea.:thumbup:
 
The biggest problem I have with "tacticals" (aside from their marketing, and the people who believe that marketing) is that the darn blades are too thick to cut anything. Sure, you can put a nice edge on the super steel of the month, but when the blade is 1/4" thick it tends to bind up a bit.

That, and I just can't get over some of the prices. $100+ for a one bladed knife with plastic scales, simply because it has a "name" on it, floors me.

Though I'm going to have to look for a new one, apparently. My last two firearm purchases were of the tactical/Eurotrash variety, so I need knives to match. And my Spydie Merlin is a bit too much -- the serrated hawkbill even gets the attention of knife knuts.

-- Sam
 
I for years have carried both types. For the last 2 months I have only carried a slip joint to see if I would miss my one-hander. The answer is not really. I have found I miss the knife clipped to the top of my pocket more than anything. Having a very dirty, wet, and or cold hand and needing my knife the clipped one-hander was a heck of allot easier to get than my slip joint pocketknife. But the one hand function I haven't missed. I like both types but if I’m only going to carry one knife I guess it will depend on if I feel like a real man that day or not. :) :D

Having an injured hand and trying to use a traditional isn't much fun either. I sprained my wrist a couple years ago, and it was very painful and difficult to open either traditional- I didn't have my one hand folder on me that day. I have always liked both, and they complement each other nicely.
 
I've heard the arguement of the one handers saying if they need a knife with one hand, or a hand gets injured, a slippy is not good. I totally agree with that, under some unforseen and rare circumstances a slippy could be a problem to open.

To my way of thinking, thats why we have sheath knives. I always figured if my pocket knife was not up to handling it, then we use Trapper Bill's knife, a small sheath number.

Just about a year ago, a friend of mine who I've been taking around for his cancer treatments and other things, gave me a knife as a gift,token of gratitude thing. It was a little Buck Hartsook. At first I looked at it like "what the heck am I supposed to do with this little thing?" kind of reaction. I thought Jim ahd lost some of his marbles to chemo-therapy, but I carried it to make Jim feel good. I slung it over a button and hung it just inside my shirt so the handle was just above my belt buckle.

The joke was on me.

This tiny little sheath knife has been one of the most handy knives I've ever had, and unconvetional as it is, its opened this old dogs mind to a new approach. I've used it to open mail, UPS boxes, Christmas gifts last year, plastic blister packs, twine, and uncounted other things. It's made me thing about alot of things I've forgotten.

A small little fixed blade can do all things a one handed locking knife can do, better. No folding mechanisim means total security, no moving parts to jam up with dirt/sand, easy to clean, and very light weight. All the arguments of pro/con, slippy vs one handed locker, goes out the window with another approach-the very small sheath knife. (I still can't bring myself to call them fixed blades. I'm not nuetering my knives!)

Over the past year I've been carrying my usual peanut/stockman/sak, but in addition there has been a small fixed blade on me, as an ongoing experiment. A few months ago I took a Victorinox paring knife and shortened it up overall so it's about the size of an opened Victorinox cadet. I made up a trim leather puuko style sheath for it that goes in my right back pocket, and is attached to my belt with a lanyard. I've played with it on and off, and I'm becomming a convert back to something I knew in my youth.

And I've found an other amazing thing. The very small sheath knife does not make people uneasy like a large locking blade Spyderco or other blade handle knife. I'm not sure why, its not just size alone. I had one woman tell me that my cut down Victorinox pocket puuko looked very practical. I had another woman ask to see the Hartsook, after Karen borrowed it to cut a price tag off a new sweatshirt at a store, and after examining it, she thought it was very elegent. She asked if it was available in silver. Go figure, I sure can't.

I never figured to sense a sea change this late in life, but I may be heading for a change of edc. If I have to back up my small slippy with something, a small sheath knife seems the logical thing, not a larger folding knife with a lock. The small knife fits right into the right hand pocket along side my edc pocket knife, hanging around my neck under a shirt or jacket, or in the back pocket, all out of sight of the public. And light weight enough that I can forget they are there.

Bill Harding used a case pocket knife and a small Case little finn for a lifetime of outdoor living, poaching and trapping. There's a leason there that I sometimes forget.
 
i once read a great little short story, titled something like "the sniper", i don't remember. but i do remember a sniper in the story was shot by another sniper in the arm. he took out his slipjoint and, pinching the blade in his thumb and forefinger, levered the end of the handle against his leg. i tried it and it works well. also, my opinel opens and locks very easily with one hand.

i am very casually looking around for a good little sheath knife to go on my belt to compliment my finer cutting folder. something like a finn would be good, but i think i might have to get a custom for the grind/blade shape/handle style i want. i think it would work great.

the other day i was salting several driveways, using the icemelt. very corrosive stuff. instead of using the super knife with contractor blades that i had brought with me, i went ahead and used my opinel. worked just fine, and i had no issues with rust. just a wipe on the pant leg after a cut.
 
Just about a year ago, a friend of mine who I've been taking around for his cancer treatments and other things, gave me a knife as a gift,token of gratitude thing. It was a little Buck Hartsook. At first I looked at it like "what the heck am I supposed to do with this little thing?" kind of reaction. I thought Jim ahd lost some of his marbles to chemo-therapy, but I carried it to make Jim feel good. I slung it over a button and hung it just inside my shirt so the handle was just above my belt buckle.

The joke was on me.

This tiny little sheath knife has been one of the most handy knives I've ever had, and unconvetional as it is, its opened this old dogs mind to a new approach. I've used it to open mail, UPS boxes, Christmas gifts last year, plastic blister packs, twine, and uncounted other things. It's made me thing about alot of things I've forgotten.

I too have a Buck 860 Heartsook, and it is a very cute little knife. I use it for doing dirty stuff in tight places (that require a small knife), where a fixed blade would be much easier to clean afterwards. I have found that the little lanyard makes an excellent handle extension- necesary almost to really use the knife. I could also concieve using it under similar game cleaning activities (makeing small precise cuts).

It also fits nicely in a watch pocket.

Unfortunately, Buck markets it as a tactical item (if you see their ad for the 860 in SWAT Magazine, you'll see what I mean).

As soon as she saw te little 860, my mother suddenly wanted one. She may recieve one for Christmas... This from a woman with no interest in knives- who EDCs (in her purse) an SAK clone that she recieved from a vendor at work years ago, and a Leatherman Micra that was a gift from yours truly (she likes the Micra alot).
 
A very small sheath-knife is an excellent solution that covers both fields:the needs of the Traditionalist slip-joint/lockback lobby & the Modernist tacticals. I have a Bark River Mikro Slither, a really elegant user (bit costly I know)and BRKT have a wide range of small and micro knives. I have to confess that my Traditionalist leanings have been slightly compromised by the Kershaw Chive I got recently, that's an impressive small user too, too bad it doesn't come in jigged bone or Ram's Horn:D

It's late, I must be getting tired, on looking through the thread with all this real man talk I mis-read tactical as testicle:eek:
 
If it come down to root-hog or die, give me a sheath knife and a Estwing axe. I like "pocket" knives because like the cowboy and his saddle, you aren't "one" unless you got one....
 
...but the blade style has severe limitations

Any particular limitations come to mind?

The biggest problem I have with "tacticals" (aside from their marketing, and the people who believe that marketing) is that the darn blades are too thick to cut anything. Sure, you can put a nice edge on the super steel of the month, but when the blade is 1/4" thick it tends to bind up a bit.

That, and I just can't get over some of the prices. $100+ for a one bladed knife with plastic scales, simply because it has a "name" on it, floors me.

Though I'm going to have to look for a new one, apparently. My last two firearm purchases were of the tactical/Eurotrash variety, so I need knives to match. And my Spydie Merlin is a bit too much -- the serrated hawkbill even gets the attention of knife knuts.

-- Sam

Sam, why don't you reprofile the knives? It can take a bit of time, but the end result is worth it. I agree that the edges on most tacticals are far too thick for any knife that size to have, but I've found terribly obtuse edges on my slipjoints as well. Any knife that comes from the factory with a 40 degree inclusive edge or greater will need reprofiled, whether it's a 300$ tactical or a simple Buck slipjoint. Also, there are many "tacticals" available with 2mm blades. The design intents on tacticals tend to vary quite a bit. Looking at Spydercos offerings, you can go from a tiny, two finger wharncliffe like the Spin up to a brute like the Manix. It's hard to lump them all in the same category of cutting performance.

If the price bothers you, there are many low cost models out there. Spyderco has their Byrd line, which provides knives that match, in most regards, the quality of knives costing four times their price. Kershaw puts out a number of solid working knives under the 50$ price tag, such as the Storm, Junkyard Dawg, EnerG and so forth. The Chad Los Banos Boker knives, like the Subcom, Trance and Hyper all retail for low prices, sometimes as low as 25$ new.

Why? Well, first let's talk about the odds of finding yourself holding something in one hand and "needing" to get out and use his knife with the other.....one instance in EIGHT YEARS.

But this doesn't answer the question about why I now (and why - as this thread shows - a lot of working guys) carry more-traditional pocketknives. The truth is, I've found they cut better.

A big single-blade one-hand opener might be great for dramatically slashing that boat line to save the lives of scores of passengers or whatever, and it might be fine for sprinting to the site of the horrid wreck on the highway and cutting free a passenger seconds before the car bursts into flames! :rolleyes: But you know what? For the real, day-to-day cutting that I do, a comparatively thin, narrow blade like what's on my Old Timer Middleman Jack, SAKs, or Case Sodbuster Junior does the job a lot better.

In truth, I found that time and again I was giving up real-world cutting performance for the CONVENIENCE of one-hand opening and for the luxury of a better steel (again, I really respect Sal Glesser and tip my cap to him for his use of wonderful steels).

Again, if the edge is too thick, the end user always has the option of modifying it. I've taken what I consider to be horribly obtuse edges down past where the majority of even knife nuts would (As low as 10 deg inclusive on some of my tacticals) and I've gotten great cutting performance in return. My 3mm thick Byrd Cara Cara cuts much better than my Opinel does, and the higher quality blade steel / heat treatment lets me put a more acute edge on it than the Opinel can take while surviving the uses I put it through. One handed operation is a nice convenience to have as well in my opinion. Yeah, I can take the extra time to use a slipjoint, but having to set something down to cut it just seems like a step backwards to me. Also I would argue that high-end steels aren't just a luxury. Look at H1, which is completely impervious to rust, or some of the other steels currently on the market run at 60+ RC and capable of taking very acute edges and being quite stable at the same time. I guess I just don't understand why some people seem to not want to acknowledge these progressions in the knife industry. If you're content with 55RC 420hc and two-handed opening, fine by me, but that doesn't mean there aren't people who do find such things useful. These new steels don't have to be limited to tacticals either. Queen's D2 knives are pretty well received from what I've seen, and that's not the most typical steel for a slipjoint, and I've heard few complaints from members here owning an ATS55 custom slipjoint.

I've heard the arguement of the one handers saying if they need a knife with one hand, or a hand gets injured, a slippy is not good. I totally agree with that, under some unforseen and rare circumstances a slippy could be a problem to open.

To my way of thinking, thats why we have sheath knives. I always figured if my pocket knife was not up to handling it, then we use Trapper Bill's knife, a small sheath number.

I have a similar line of thinking. I like fixed blades for a number of reasons, the ergonomics, ability to take spine loads, ease of cleaning etc. But to me, a large, stout, locking folder is more practical in a lot of ways. It's a matter of preference, but in the end I find something like a Spyderco Manix easily handles anything I'd want to use a fixed blade for, the only real disadvantadge being cleaning it and possible concerns when using it to chop or split firewood, which isn't something I subject folders to very often. I've never done anything to defeat the lock on my Spydercos. I like folders because you can get more blade length in a smaller package, they're much more convenient to carry and re-pocket after use etc. I usually carry a slipjoint and my Manix, and I think of the Manix in a similar way to how people thought of their fixed blades in decades past (Though I'm always concious of the limitations of any folder).

I own a hartsook and it's a nice little knife (Needs reprofiled though!), but I base my EDC choices by how useful they are to me. A small SAK, which is the same size and weight roughly, is more useful to me than a fixed blade that size, so I carry a LM Micra or Swiss Army Knife over it. I don't get my knives messy often, I haven't ever done anything with a SAK that hot water from a sink couldn't fix. The reason why I carry a tactical over a slipjoint is its capable of more when it comes to my own general use, and I pick it over a fixed blade because like I explained in my last paragraph it's extremely rare that the locking folder can't handle the job (It always can, just sometimes takes more care than a fixed blade). My EDC is a Leatherman Micra and a locking Spyderco, sometimes with a third knife like a Boker Wharcom or 3 inch stockman for smaller chores, which to me is the most utility in the simplest package. Maybe I just need to find the right fixed blade though. I've thought about EDCing my Kabar TDI and a stockman for a few days and seeing how I like that, but I don't see myself converting just yet. Thanks for the comments though, I like reading about what other people carry and why.
 
The reason why I carry a tactical over a slipjoint is its capable of more when it comes to my own general use...

And this is where we disagree. (Or, to put it less politely, what the heck do you cut on a day-in and day-out basis!?) At any rate, I WILL grant you that what is defined as "general use" in my life is very likely going do be defined differently in your life. Which is where the phrase "different strokes for different folks" comes in. :)

BTW, as to your point about steels ..... I have never had a problem with or complaint about the carbon steel on my Schrade and Case pocketknives nor the stainless on my SAKs. No problem with rust (if I'm going to be in a wet environment, naturally I'd opt for stainless over 1095) and staining doesn't bother me, and no problem AT ALL with their edge-holding ability. Again, this is in my real-world experience. Now, if some manufacturer decides to produce a reasonably priced stockman or other traditional style slipjoint with high-end steel and the tried-and-true blade shape and edges bevels etc. that have worked so well for so many years for me, I just might be first in line to try one. And - as you mentioned - based on the success of the Queen D2 line, I don't think I'm alone in this.
 
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