Redundancy:Caution or Paranoia?

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Aug 31, 2006
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Browsing through some old threads some time ago I started to think about people's kits; PSKs, "10 Essentials", BOBs, etc.

What I saw was that a lot of people tend to favor the redundancy school of thought that, "If it's important enough to have, it's important enough to have two(or more)".
Now, in some instances I tend to agree with this. Other times, I wonder though if it isn't just a little paranoia on the part of some of us and compensating for skills we aren't as strong in.

Every area will dictate the need for one or two priorities above all else. In the desert for instance, shelter and water are pretty much the main concerns. In the northern forests-shelter and fire. At sea-water and navigation You get the point I think. So, naturally it would be prudent to have some form of back up for the one or two major needs for the area you are in.
Doubling up on those things that aren't as important, seems to me to be adding extra weight and bulk. In some cases I have to wonder if the extra weight is even worth the quality of the back up.

An example of what I mean is this; If your navigational skills aren't your strong suit and you think that a compass is important enough to carry duplicates-primary, and one in the PSK let's say. Then why not carry two of your primary compasses rather than say a Cammenga lensatic and then a 20mm button compass? Or carry one quality compass and check it against other methods; Polaris, shadow stick, etc.
Let's say shelter is one of your primary goals. If you aren't adept at building or finding natural shelter, and so you carry some contractor's bags in addition to your tent/tarp/hammock/bag etc. Why not just carry a quality bivvy bag instead? Or learn one or two shelters that are best suited for your environment, and perfect them.

Now, maybe this is just me, and I could be completely wrong here. I think that if you need something that badly, that naturally you're going to take every precaution to safeguard it and probably won't need a spare to begin with. It'll be tethered to you, or secured in a zippered pocket, or constantly in use, etc.
I also think that if it's so important to you that you DO decide to carry a spare they should both be of the same quality, ideally the same piece.

I mean, why carry Connibears and lock-cam snares in your pack, but only picture wire in your PSK? Or a compass that you use for all your orienteering and have become familiar with in your pack or person, and then a cheaper or lesser version in your PSK that isn't second nature to you. The list goes on, but you get the idea.

I tend to use my knowledge and gear to avoid bad situations in the first place and look after the gear I have fervently. That said, if I ever AM put in a situation that requires me to use my gear for self-rescue, I have to depend on it to keep me alive, or I've lost my pack etc.; I don't want a "back-up" or a "PSK version" that's "good enough" or and improvised version of what I need/my primary. I want it to be as good or better than the gear I was using at the time I got into said situation.

With that line of thought, I took another look at my kit and anything that wasn't absolutely necessary to duplicate(i.e. I could rely on a method rather than gear, or the chances of losing it were slim to none) I pulled. My PSK got a good working over and it either has the same gear as my main pack now, or better. Afterall, that's what's more likely to be on me in any event or should I lose my pack.
This did two things, increased the size of my PSK slightly(which now rides in a FAK pouch) and reduced the weight/volume of my main pack greatly, which gives me more space for water. A more substantial PSK without much extra size/weight penalty, and a vastly pared down pack is kind of a win-win situation in my opinion. I just thought I'd share my little brain storming session with everyone here. Maybe some folks will take a good look at why they carry what they do, and decide that they really don't need eight ways to start a fire or five signalling devices.

Who knows, maybe you'll shave off a pound or two of gear after taking a closer look at your kit. Or maybe you'll throw in a couple duplicates, you know...Just for redundancy :p


Gautier
 
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It's all about how much you are likely to need a spare one

VS

How pratical is it to have another (bulk, weight, cost)
 
Well here is an example where redundancy served me well the other day. I've got a nice Suunto compass that has a small bubble in it. I live at about 2500'. I went hiking up at 6000' the other day, and needed a map and compass in one area. Pulled out the Suunto, and the bubble had expanded to about the size of a dime, and was large enough to interfere with the needle movement. It wasn't life threatening, but was nice to have another quality compass to check with.

So don't know if this supports your theory or not. :D I know a lot of people only carry one compass, or worse, none. :eek: I know it was helpful to me to be redundant in this area.
 
Good point. I do have redundancy in some "essential" items and even that really depends on where I'm headed. I do agree that some skill/training and knowledge will definitly give you the ability to improvise and reduce some redundant items. I now have taken out the button compass since when I'm out I already keep a base compass in my cargo pocket and have started wearing a wrist compass as well...if I lose my pants and my right hand, a button compass in my PSK isn't really going to a top priority:D

My goal is to always cut out something I haven't used or that I can improvise in the field. Bladeware, fire and water are my top areas of redundancy, but even these can be paired down as you work on primitive skills (a weak area for me, but one that I'm working on).

ROCK6
 
Years ago I used to pack all kinds of extra stuff, on day hikes, weekenders, even week long backpacking trips. I'm not ultralight by any means, so I figured the more stuff in my pack the better! I'd also have extra "stuff" in my pants pockets too. I still have a ton of different PSK's around my house that I don't really carry anymore. It took me a lot of messing around and trying different things to admit to myself that a pocket sized PSK isn't really needed. (At least where I usually tromp around)

I eventually cleaned out all extra "backups" and "backups for backups" from my pack, for no other reason than it would take forever to find what I was looking for in there. I will carry an extra knife or two if I have a new on e to play with, or maybe a new flashlight or other piece of gear, but it generally stays pretty basic now. Though I still carry a mag firestarter and a SAK in my pocket for 'just in case') I also still keep my ritter PSk in my pack, but I think it's just psychological :D
 
I carry back up gear not as backup but because i enjoy going into the woods and using my gear and me new gear, be it knives, fire starting tools, tinders, compasses , shelters etc.

sure i could get by with a knife and a firesteel, but wheres the fun in that, when I can play with 20+ knives and 20 different ways of lighting a fire
 
If you layer your kits, you are going to find redundant gear in different areas of your survival kit. For instance, in my EDC, I carry a lighter in my pocket, some tinder in a matchsafe w/compass and a BSA Hotspark attached to my belt carried Vic SAK and my PSK has a spark-lite and tinder. When I add the small pack that I carry for hikes, etc., it has some homemade and store bought tinder and another lighter.

Other gear that gets duplicated are cutting tools, compass, food gathering, duct tape, cordage, water purification and first aid. Also shelter possibilities get duplicated, or maybe expanded upon, is a better way to state it.
 
I carry back up gear not as backup but because i enjoy going into the woods and using my gear and me new gear, be it knives, fire starting tools, tinders, compasses , shelters etc.

sure i could get by with a knife and a firesteel, but wheres the fun in that, when I can play with 20+ knives and 20 different ways of lighting a fire

That's all well and good, but that's not a survival kit...That's a portable toy box :p


Gautier
 
How about cautious paranoia? A little of both. Maybe also not so much redundancy but spread out. Thirty feet of duct tape in ten ft increments for instance. Some in pants,some in jacket. I think, after watching Les Stroud on TV struggling to get fires lit,a lot of redundancy(and practice) is a good thing in the fire lighting dept.
 
hmm,
I know last night I went through my kit again, and I found I had everything I needed in my kit. But thats the problem, EVERYTHING I need is in my kit, even though its on my held by two straps and sometimes my belt, what if it came off?
As of right now I keep a light on me, a knife, multitool, GPS, lighter, some rope and level. But when I think about it, what actually could happen that would take my pack off?
It would take a very well minded attacker, to find the exact location of my buckles and he could get it off.
Also, if I were canoeing I would normally take off everything and load it in my pack, how do I cambat this, well I just keep my pack on, every thing thats in trouble from water is waterproofed so no worries there if I take a dip. So, aside from that, the only time I take off my pack is when im in the car/truck, but its within arms reach, and positioned so I can reach the lights, FAK and essentials from where I sit.

So I think I've got everything covered, the only thing is if an attacker trie to get my pack off, but to be honest, the gun crimes out here are little to none, so if anyone supecicious Ill tell them to back their ass up!:D shine a little 225 lumens in their eyes and get gone.:)
 
Even a little practice goes a long way in reducing dependence on gear redundancy though. Fire is a good example, particularly because that's where you can get the most return on your investment for redundancy.
With fire you can go with less redunant shelter, less redundant water purification, less redundant signalling, less redundant tools, etc.

Even there though, there's no need to go overboard in "back ups", if you practice and really think about what your obstacles to fire will be in your area.
With wet tinder being the obstacle a lighter and a tea candle will do better than a lighter, match case, ferro rod, and tinder box and take up less room.

If wind is the obstacle you'd do better to prepare your fire lay better(entrenched or enclosed) than you would trying to keep magnesium shavings from blowing away or matches from blowing out, etc. In instances like that, it doesn't matter what method you use, it's all about how you use it. No amount of redundancy in the items you carry will make the wind stop blowing or the tinder dry.

I'm not suggesting that everyone abandons their lighters, matches, etc. That'd just be foolish, because there are times when the equipment itself can fail. I'm just saying that if you can't get a fire lit(just using this as an example) with two types of fire starting, a third probably isn't going to make much difference unless it's a flare, and you should reconsider practicing more or take a step back and look at the situation rather than throwing more gear at the problem.

Gautier
 
hmm,
I know last night I went through my kit again, and I found I had everything I needed in my kit. But thats the problem, EVERYTHING I need is in my kit, even though its on my held by two straps and sometimes my belt, what if it came off?
As of right now I keep a light on me, a knife, multitool, GPS, lighter, some rope and level. But when I think about it, what actually could happen that would take my pack off?
It would take a very well minded attacker, to find the exact location of my buckles and he could get it off.
Also, if I were canoeing I would normally take off everything and load it in my pack, how do I cambat this, well I just keep my pack on, every thing thats in trouble from water is waterproofed so no worries there if I take a dip. So, aside from that, the only time I take off my pack is when im in the car/truck, but its within arms reach, and positioned so I can reach the lights, FAK and essentials from where I sit.

So I think I've got everything covered, the only thing is if an attacker trie to get my pack off, but to be honest, the gun crimes out here are little to none, so if anyone supecicious Ill tell them to back their ass up!:D shine a little 225 lumens in their eyes and get gone.:)

That's a good point. I look at this problem a little differently than redundancy though, more like an, "all your eggs in one basket" sort of thing. That kind of ties in with redundancy if you look at carry methods though. I mean, there's really no point in carrying three means of signalling if they were all in your pack that's now floating down the river, right?
Ofcourse the same argument could be made that if you only have one item, and it falls out of your pocket, then it's just as gone whether you have your pack or not.

I figure though, like I said in my OP, if it's something THAT important that I'd never want to be out there without it(that's only about two or three items for me) it's either on my person securely or I take all precautions to ensure it's safety from being broken/lost.
If I do have a duplicate to an item, it's never in the same place as the primary item. That way, if a pocket rips, or I have to ditch my pack to prevent a greater danger, etc. there will be an item in one spot or the other. The odds of losing both are about as good as me winning the power ball, so I don't see the point of taking redundancy past a second item, and only then being redundant for the top two or three priorities in my area.


Gautier
 
I am maybe a bit paranoid about fire starting stuff. I have spent a lot of time in very remote areas where starting a fire was absolutely life or death. I would sacrifice nearly everything else before I would skimp of fire starting gear. A couple times I have nearly died of hypothermia.
 
"Paranoia" would be carrying two or three sets of boots because you might lose a pair of them. Fire, compass, knives, and signals are totally different.
 
I use my PSK only as a last ditch thing. I carry two knives on me normally, a Vic Cadet and a LM Core. I carry one light, a Streamlight TwinTask but I don't have a spare battery yet. That is something I need to work on. I just remembered that I also carry a Streamlight Batonlite in my coat pocket with a Fox 40 whistle attached to it as a defense/safety tool. In the five years that I have carried my PSK I have used it for a few minor things to help a co-worker out but I don't recall ever using it for myself. Thanks for the motivation to work on a spare battery carrier for my light.
 
I have my truck bag ,martac filled with everything I think I need to survival per say for a few days or longer....but in my pocket ,I edc daily,LM wave,BRK&T mini canadian or alternate with Izula,fire steel scout,SAK "hiker", swiss army AAA led light,mini Bic in kydex pants.
 
"Paranoia" would be carrying two or three sets of boots because you might lose a pair of them. Fire, compass, knives, and signals are totally different.

Can you explain this to me, please, Don? Seriously. I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything, I just don't get the analogy or see the difference. I think boots, and clothing in general are just as important as a means to make fire, a compass, knives, and signals.
I might just be having a senior moment here and missing something, but really, if you could explain this to me a little better or elaborate on how it's different I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Don.


Gautier
 
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