Reeve Aviator: Compact Survival Knife

[ras]

How much better are the saw teeth on the Aviator than those on the Ontario Air Force Survival Knife? I've found saw teeth more of a detriment and have avoided them which led me to buy the Shadow III. As Cliff noted, a regular straight blade can cut notches. Do the notches point forward or to the rear on the Aviator? IMO it's more favorable if they point forward.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...have you used an Aviator?

No but I have used quite a number of saws, including some very nice japanese patterns with very aggressive blades.

Even they can't match the speed with which you can cut a notch with a knife in the manner described in the above. I seviously doubt the Avitor can outsaw this :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/timber_saw_tashiro.jpg

I like saws mainly for cutting small trees in poor soil where the roots are loose, or trimming really hard branches on heavy growth trees where you don't have room to swing a knife.

They also work well to give to a novice as they are less likely to injure themselves than a decent hatchet or long blade.

-Cliff

 

[Vermonster]

Cliff,
My question was "have you used an Aviator?"
You say "no"

I am not talking about using saws...I am just trying discuss the merits of a particular knife that I enjoy using. Then you go and have to interject your links and comparisons of things that have nothing to do with what I am sharing.. What can I say, you are a knife review God. Thanks for sharing.


ras,
The saw does work a bit better than the AFSK from what I remember. It's been a day or two since I used one of those.

Notching aside, the teeth still have other uses.

 

[Vermonster]

ras,
The Shadow III is a nice knife. I love the spearpoints. All my other Reeve fixed blades had spearpoints. The Aviator is the my first with a clip.

The teeth point rear. For me that is better. It is easier for meto pull a saw than push the teeth through.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I am not talking about using saws...

Yeah you were, you specifically commented on the merits of a saw back for various applications and I simply contended that for those plain edges work better. I don't need to use that knife in question to make such a statement when I have used far more optimal saws unless as noted you want to claim it works better than the saws I have used, which I doubt even Reeve would support.

-Cliff

 

[Booger]

I can cut notches with my saw pretty quick, it is made by Husquavarna But then I have to carry a gas jug with me. I have to agree with cliff on this one, a baton on a straight spine blade or just a simple chop works wanders. Not saying the saw won't work just saying that for me it don't work as well. But those teeth do look good. And if CRK makes it then it's gotta be good.

 

[Vermonster]

Ok Cliff,

All I said was that the teeth on the knife can be used for notching. Nothing more. It is you who had started the comparison of straight edges and sawbacks. I find the teeth make fast and clean notches in wood. In my initial post I said lets keep it real in regards to the teeth. It's only a 4 inch blade with a couple inches of teeth. Maybe I should refer to the edge as a scoring edge vs. "saw". I know that there are a lot of individuals that do not prefer this type of edge. I am in no way saying it is better than any other. I am saying for me it does have it's uses.

Booger, it's a great knife.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

All I said was ...

Quite strong actually :

"At this time I really believe the CRK Aviator is the best compact survival knife going."

You then attempted to validate this viewpoint by noting several aspects of the knife. I offered a contending perspective based on several of the attributes you noted in support of your very aggressive claim (the best) are actually of little actual value (saw / hollow handle).

Even if you had said something fairly mild like :

"I have been using the Aviator lately, I really like the overall performance of the knife. While some don't find much use for sawbacks this has its uses for me, trap making, notches and so on."

This obviously allows for the possibility of someone countering with :

"I have tried saws for that, even actual dedicated pruning saws and decent blades will work much more efficiently."

This is the benefit of a public forum vs a private webpage where you are free to soapbox your perspective. The benefit of course isn't just for the posted but to the readers in general, who not only get to see a diverse perspective but can participate in support or in opposition.

-Cliff

 

[martin j]

I think the thread can be summed up as- "I really blieve the CRK Aviator is the best compact survival knife with sawback going, if you're into sawbacks that is"

 

[josywales3]

djolney, how do you like the BK302? I just got mine and it's pretty impressive. It was sold as new, but the ribbed grip does show sign of very slight wear. Was yours like that new? It's no biggie, because I got a good price and really just wanted to get a feel for Katz.

I am thinking of getting the smaller Lion Cub with the XT80. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Gossman Knives]

djolney, how do you like the BK302? I just got mine and it's pretty impressive. It was sold as new, but the ribbed grip does show sign of very slight wear. Was yours like that new? It's no biggie, because I got a good price and really just wanted to get a feel for Katz.

I am thinking of getting the smaller Lion Cub with the XT80. Any thoughts on that?

Katz makes a very stout knife. I have the Lion cub and one of the larger folders. I'm not much for stainless steel for large outdoor blades but I think Katz makes a decent knife. They are a bit pricy though.
Scott

 

[Temper]

CR actually states thats its not designed to cut any one thing specifically well, it would probably rip through stuff like tough plastic containers or thin steel sheeting if a baton was not available. Its more of an agressive serration than a saw.(And Yes, I have one)

 

[Cliff Stamp]

CR actually states thats its not designed to cut any one thing specifically well...

There is a problem with such a design because saws are fairly optomized, even on woods a cross cut saw makes a poor ripping saw, or a soft wood saw to a hardwood (or the reverse), not to mention take a wood saw to metal.

Some knives run heavy chisel tipped teeth across the top and they have some uses, mainly they can cut/tear even when blunt, but they then also do limit a lot of grips and applications because you can't handle or hit the top of the blade as readily.

-Cliff

 

[Vermonster]

Maybe it is best to not describe the teeth on the back as a saw even though I did it in the beginning. It can serve that purpose in a very limited way. It works well at scoring, making tinder, ripping and yes even shallow notching than it is at full deep sawing. It is not designed for full deep sawing and will not accomplish this task very well at all.

The edge is designed as a feature to aid one in the self extraction from a light aircraft. It can however also serve other functions as I described above. I have not tried this feature on aircraft. I would like to and am working on possibly getting it done to see for myself.


Cliff, why is the hollow handle of the knife of little value?

And why can you make such an aggressive statement as it is your opinion?

You could have written: "To me (Cliff) and my uses of a knife with a saw and hollow handle are actually of little value".

That would have been much less an "aggressive" claim. Please check your own backyard.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It works well at scoring, making tinder, ripping and yes even shallow notching..

All of which can be done more efficiently by the plain edge on a blade like the Mora 2000.

...why is the hollow handle of the knife of little value?

Such a handle design usually is argued on two viewpoints :

1) you can make a spear out of the knife

2) you can use it as a compartment

The spear is mainly a mall ninja argument because how can you possibly even imagine throwing the knife attached to a stick when even a mild concrete block chop gets extreme abuse claims. The level of impact a knife would get with all the weight of a spear behind it would be *many* times greater if you miss the target and it hit the ground.

Now maybe you want to argue for a poking / stabbing spear not a throwing one, ok then it has value, fishing for example, but in most cases you can make these simply out of wood, a forked one for fishing for example, or the spring loaded jaw types with the pin trigger. And of course you can lash any knife to a pole.

Compartment wise, a decent survival sheath is many times over more functional for storing equipment, larger, easier to open / close, compartmentalize. This is again more of a mall ninja viewpoint, brought popular by Rambo mainly.

Now you could argue well why not? I mean yes you can use a decent survival sheath by why not have the handle available as well, why not have saw teeth, even if they don't saw well, surely they have some function. Yes, but all of this ignores that they have drawbacks, some of which are severe, the round handle lowers ergonomics / security and the teeth reduce grip functionality and overall versatility.

And why can you make such an aggressive statement ...

Anyone can, you should just be willing to defend the position with facts and logic.

-Cliff

 

[Vermonster]

Cliff I may have taken this wrong, but please do not imply that I am a "Mall Ninja". You know nothing about me.

With that out of the way. I do not advocate the use of a knife as a spear either throwing, thrusting or fishing. Please do a search of some of my former post on knives and you will see that. So it is a mute point.

In the recent RSK folder post you tied a small folder to a stick and made a small bill hook. You could do the same with the knife in question. It would be a stronger set up overall and less likely to break with heavy impacts. That is just one example.

Survival supply's in the handle? You already know how I feel about that. The concept of the hollow handle knife was designed way before Rambo was ever thought about. I see you have limited knowledge of this or again you imply that I am a "mall ninja".

I can see the round handle being a problem with a larger knife used for chopping, but not in a small knife like this. As a matter of fact it is not a problem for me.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... do not imply that I am a "Mall Ninja".

If I wanted to say you were a mall ninja I would say so, I would not imply it. Do you really feel I have a difficulty in being direct. I don't think so by the way, most of your posts I have read were mainly on bushcraft, mall ninjas tend to focus on extreme situations, which they actually have little to no experience in nor are ever likely to and are basing their choices almost 100% on propoganda.

In the above I noted "mainly mall ninja", not "only mall ninja", by the term I simply mean individuals who will choose knives based on "coolness" factors, usually popularity based and are hugely influenced by any celeb / name endorsement. They also never consider the counterbalance perspective which any design aspect will have and have little to no experience with knives so almost any decent knife impresses them to no end.

In the recent RSK folder post you tied a small folder to a stick and made a small bill hook. You could do the same with the knife in question. It would be a stronger set up overall and less likely to break with heavy impacts. That is just one example.

Yes, and note that the hollow handle doesn't gain you anything as I did it with a knife which didn't have one.

The concept of the hollow handle knife was designed way before Rambo was ever thought about.

Yeah, bamboo handles are really old, they are probably the earliest of such an example, or maybe some of the bone ones. Rambo was just a tremendous influence on its popularity and really brought out the mall ninjas in force on that design, just the "The Hunted" did with the Tracker.

This of course doesn't mean everyone who buys such a knife is one, just that such promotions tend to attract those covert deanimators, lots of other aspects do the same like black blades, "my knives are used by high speed operators", "this is the official navy seal knife" etc. .

I can see the round handle being a problem with a larger knife used for chopping, but not in a small knife like this.

You have the same issues with ergonomics or security with any knife, the lighter and shorter you use a knife the less of an effect it makes. As you go really light, like opening envelopes you can use even boxy handles with sharp edges without concern.

As an example, I recently did some plastic cutting with a Sebenza, decent ergonomics in general, cutting up small pop bottle was no problem, but when I went to the thicker ones and the force was ~75 lbs, the open backed handle design was hot spotting readily.

Compare a pure round handle to something like this :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351109



or

http://www.imageseek.com/lamey/gallery/albums/previous/DCP_2276.sized.jpg

for a less aggressive contour and do a lot of extended cutting, whittling, chopping, carving, thrusting, etc., the difference should stand out readily.

-Cliff

 

[Vermonster]

The term "Mall Ninja" really has nothing to do with knives or knife choice. What you mean is a "wanabee".

You see "Mall Ninja" references the (usually) low paid security officers that frequently are employed in Mall's, with the attitude that they are 10 feet tall and bullet proof. You see it refers to two things, one's employment and that "Super Man" attitude to go with it. Has nothing to do with gear or knife choices.

You are using this term out of context, just so you know.


So you are telling me, there is no gain in shoving a stick up into a steel hollow handle 3 inches then tying it vs. just tying a small folder or any knife to a stick?

That does not make any sense. Please convince me.

I have had this knife for approx. 3 years now. I think I have used it enough to know if it fits my hand. It does, and the knurling on it ensures that it stays where it is suppose to.

 

[tknife]

Don't feel compelled to argue why you like a certain knife. Cliff, this is why many members get annoyed with you. He was simply stating why he likes a certain knife, and how well it works for him. Who are you to say he is wrong? Why does he owe you anything in regards to why he likes this knife? It's really not fair to come down on someone because they don't share your feelings about a knife.

 

[Booger]

Can some of us just say that we like the knife and others say they don't? As far as the uses that we find for our knives they are what we make of them. I believe my CRK's to be the best knives ever made. If someone else thinks another knife is better then good for them. They must not have tried a CRK yet . We have the choice to use our knives any way we see fit. What work's for one person may not work for another. But in the end we all love the same thing, knives. If we didn't we would not be on this forum. I enjoy hearing other's opinions but that is what they are, opinions, just like mine.