Reeve Aviator: Compact Survival Knife

[Benjamin Liu]

I've not been on the forums much this past year or so, but when I came back I've seen the term "mall ninja" used by people to label knives they don't like or people who use knives they don't like. I've seen it properly used on other forums but on this forum people usually only use it to be jerks. The stupidest example is some clueless moron whose name I won't mention, a fool who has no training in the justified use of deadly force, thinks only cops carry firearms, and thinks it is a good idea to try to scare attackers with knives.

A lot of people hate black blades (racists? ) and say that people who use them are "mall ninjas." The fact is that in many cases black (or any color) coated blades are cheaper than a satin finish. Anyone who doubts this can look at the Busse and Fehrman sites and see the price difference. Personally I prefer satin, but on a knife I buy to use and not to display the extra money isn't worth it. My black Steelheart E will cut just as well as a satin one.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The term "Mall Ninja" really has nothing to do with knives or knife choice.

The origional "mall ninja" was born/created/propogated on glock talk in 2000, or there abouts. It was coined simply to make fun of someone spreading wild tales of a tactical nature when in fact none exist.

You don't have to work at a mall to be a mall ninja, and you don't need to be into knives. However mall ninjas that are into knives are attracted to knives with features I noted because of reasoning I noted and act like I noted when talking about such knives.

In the above I pointed out the common promoted advantages of a couple of the features being discussed and why they are mainly a mall ninja arguement. You are of course free to point out other aspects which are of actual functional benefit *compared to a quality blade without them* and taking note of their drawbacks at the same time.

So you are telling me, there is no gain in shoving a stick up into a steel hollow handle 3 inches then tying it vs. just tying a small folder or any knife to a stick?

Yeah because I can easily lash the Meadowlark to the stick securely enough that I can chop with it hard enough to break the lock, so attachment isn't a problem.

This was discussed in detail in the reviews forum as well on the Busse forum about four years ago when Evolute did some work along those lines and I worked with the TAC-11 from Johanning.

I have done it many times since then, none of the knives had hollow handles.

I think I have used it enough to know if it fits my hand. It does, and the knurling on it ensures that it stays where it is suppose to.

So have you used it in the manner I noted alongside blades like I noted and actually prefer it to those contoured shapes?

Note even Reeve has noted the oval shape is used simply because of cost over the round one, not that it works better.

He was simply stating why he likes a certain knife...

No read his post again, he was stating that it was the "best compact survival knife going", that is a fairly strong statement, and he used as support the fact that among other things it had a hollow handle and saw back.

I simply provided an alternate viewpoint based on my experience and asked him among other things exactly which knives was he using as references in the "going" part. I would be curious as to which blades of the same price point has been used to establish such a claim.

-Cliff

 

[tknife]

I know for a fact that Vermonster has used some of the BEST knives around, including some high end customs specifically designed for tough, survival knife use. For him to state that one in particular is the best compact survival knife is to me, an important statement.

If he had asked "What are your opionions on the Aviator" that would be something completely different. Saying he likes the knife, and saying why he likes it doesn't warrant an argument. Along the same lines, there are many, many knives that I like a lot. It doesn't mean that I did side by side comparisons with certain other knives to come to that conclusion.

 

[skammer]

I know for a fact that Vermonster has used some of the BEST knives around, including some high end customs specifically designed for tough, survival knife use. For him to state that one in particular is the best compact survival knife is to me, an important statement.

For anyone to say that statement they MUST be preparred to back it up especially on this forum. If not there are many so called "Mall Ninja" LMAO forums who will believe anything they are told without question.

The fact someone says a person is an expert with lots of experience with blades is just rumor until proven otherwise.

I found Cliffs questions to be entirely appropriate and logical given the flow of converstation. I am also quite sure he has some "published" & "acknowledged" experience with blades.

Without logical questions reguarding ones opinions a forum like this degrades into childish "mine is better than yours" banter.

Don't want to be questioned don't post.

For the record, I have owned round handled and hollow handled blades and found them very uncomfortable to work with for any length of time. In a survival situation I would NEVER risk breaking such an important piece of equipment like a knife by strapping it to the end of stick for any reason.
I do own CRK blades and "I" do not believe they are worth the money for the CRK logo, however they are decent blades.

Skam

 

[randjack]

This thread has gotten to be really tedious. However, at the risk perpetuating this embarassing display of bile vs. attempts to reason quietly, please allow me to make the following observations.

To the best of my knowledge, the first commericially produced hollow handle survival knife was made by Bo Randall in about 1967, the Model 18 "Attack-Survival." Randall Made Knives has made them continually since. It has -- gasp, choke, blanch -- not only a hollow handle, but saw teeth on the spine, and worst of all, "Flared holes in the top and bottom of the hilt accomodate wrist thog and facilitate placement of rod for conversion to spear." [Text from current Randall, 33rd printing]

Someplace around here [I hope] I have the catalog I received with delivery of my first Randall custom in 1969. That catalog had a reprint of a letter to Bo Randall from a Special Forces Colonel who participated in the design of the Model 18. The Colonel begins by singing his praises of the knife, including, IIRC, his praise of the effectiveness of the saw teeth, and goes on the explain how he configured his knife. This, apparently, had been a matter of no little discussion, because of the inherent difficulties in using a 1" round stainless tubular handle. The Colonel explains that he began by wrapping the handle with a layer of medical tape, went over that with several wire guitar strings, over which went another layer of medical tape. Next was a layer of something else which I can't remember at the moment. Last, the handle was wrapped with leather boot laces, which wraps began with laying a couple of handle lengths of boot lace down the center of the bottom of the handle, achieving a slightly egg shaped profile, viewed end-on.

Next he discusses what went in the handle. I don't remmeber everything he discussed, but what has stuck in my mind was a ferro rod of some sort (were they GI issue in 1967?), suture material packets with pre-threaded needles Pre-threaded needles were a new big deal back then), and morphine. Must have been "Mall Ninja" drug of choice back then.

The Model 17, "Astro" which went up with the Mercury astronauts was designed by Randall and the original seven, with final design by Gordon Cooper. This knife had a full length, full thickness tang with black micarta scales held on with stainless bolts with wide slotted heads. Interestingly, it had a large slot cut in the tang, and corresponding hollows cut into the scales for carriage of survival items. Those guys with 'the right stuff' must have thought in-handle storage had some merit. But gee, they weren't knife "experts", were they?

There is a brand new Astro for sale just down the street for me. I can't justify laying out $500.00 for a collection-only knife, but I did look it over really look it over. The leather steath still carries only a pocket for those dinky little pocket stones. I put to pocket on my EDC Randall to use by putting a LM Micra in it.

 

[Benjamin Liu]

and morphine. Must have been "Mall Ninja" drug of choice back then.

Morphine is the drug of choice for the Mighty Morphine Power Rangers.

"It's morphine time!"

 

[tknife]

For anyone to say that statement they MUST be preparred to back it up especially on this forum. If not there are many so called "Mall Ninja" LMAO forums who will believe anything they are told without question.

The fact someone says a person is an expert with lots of experience with blades is just rumor until proven otherwise.

I found Cliffs questions to be entirely appropriate and logical given the flow of converstation. I am also quite sure he has some "published" & "acknowledged" experience with blades.

Without logical questions reguarding ones opinions a forum like this degrades into childish "mine is better than yours" banter.

Don't want to be questioned don't post.

Skam

I don't think anyone has to be "prepared to back up" any statement made here, especially a personal observation. This isn't a courthouse, it's an open forum. I didn't proclaim anyone an "expert", just as I don't view Cliff as any kind of knife expert anymore than I am. Don't turn this uglier than it should ever have been.

 

[Benjamin Liu]

I guess I'll have to use an Aviator to see how it works. The idea behind the knife I'm looking for is a SMALL knife that I can carry EDC. The saw is the main reason I'm considering the Aviator and I usually hear good things about Chris Reeve knives. Other options I'm considering are the Fehrman Peacemaker, Tru Hiker, and a few small TOPS knives.

 

[skammer]

I don't think anyone has to be "prepared to back up" any statement made here, especially a personal observation. This isn't a courthouse, it's an open forum. I didn't proclaim anyone an "expert", just as I don't view Cliff as any kind of knife expert anymore than I am. Don't turn this uglier than it should ever have been.

I do think you should back up statments as it is a sign of intellect and conviction. This is what "OPEN" forums are all about otherwise its mindless drivel.

I think Cliff is more of an expert than you, until you prove me wrong.

So that settles that.

Skam

 

[tknife]

I never claimed to be an expert. And if I was, why would I need to prove it to you? Who are you? Buy and enjoy any knife Cliff reccomends for all I care, but you don't have to bash a knife someone else likes. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about this point?

 

[ras]

Benjamin Liu,
At risk of bringing down the wrath of the experts here, in my opinion the Fehrman Peacemaker is a great knife. I have a PM and a Final Judgment, and find that the PM is a very nice knife for carry in the woods; it gets a lot more use than the FJ simply because it isn't so big.

I like the CRK knives too and find my Shadow III very usable; the round handle rolling issue hasn't happened to me. That said, it doesn't have the ergonomics of a Fehrman Peacemaker, they weren't designed to the same criteria.

R

 

[Cliff Stamp]

To the best of my knowledge, the first commericially produced hollow handle survival knife was made by Bo Randall ...

This is an old design, you can find hollow handled wooden knives that are way older than Randall's, they are very much survival knives in every sense of the word. There were a bunch on sale on ebay a few months back.

I know for a fact that Vermonster has used some of the BEST knives around ...

Good then he has the ability to be specific in his expansive claim.

Along the same lines, there are many, many knives that I like a lot. It doesn't mean that I did side by side comparisons with certain other knives to come to that conclusion.

Would you thus come out in a public forum and note you think they are the best thing going for a survivial knife without doing such work?

If you don't want to actually engage discussion about your opinions why use a public forum in the first place.

The whole reason they exist is for this purpose. Hence why they are called *discussion* forums.

It isn't a discussion if there are no opposing viewpoint, the actual word means an exchange of ideas, which means *different* ones.

-Cliff

 

[Booger]

 

[tknife]

If the reeve one piece line was as lacking as you say Cliff, maybe you should call Chris Reeve personally and challenge his design. And while you're at it, ask him to recall all that he's sold. Now that would really be standing behind your words. You may want to include all the other makers that you don't like too, since all the thoudands of other knife users may not have done side by side testing, and you obviously are the final word on knives.

 

[Temper]

I took one out of a box today (I sell them) and had a look. The saw looks optimised to rip, not saw. The teeth all face backwards and are not offset. It would make a good notching saw and good material(plastic drum, thinn steel/alu etc) 'ripper' as the point and semi sharp swedge would afford decent penetration and you could wrap the lanyard around a stick to make a toggle to pull on and use the other hand as a guide. Using it in this manner is probably better than a dedicated saw as you are going to be using it to survive not fashion a mainspring for a Rolex.

I really like it, to tell the truth I wasn't too impressed at first but after a while its size makes a lof of sense. As for larger nocks, its probably better to make two quick scores with the saw parallel to each other and use the blade to join them up. Its not a chainsaw or a Battle Mistress, but it looks a lot more capable and versatile than a SAK. It offers the advantage of a water tight compartment (For all your Morphine needs )

Its not optimised to do anything really well but I would rather have the teeth than not.

 

[Vermonster]

I am no expert, nor do I claim to be. I just like to share my enthusiasm with others when I find something that works. I is fun to be able to write about knives I enjoy using. Practicing Bushcraft is something I enjoy doing. It is one of the few things in this world that keeps me sane. I can be a little aggressive by nature, and my opinions are shared that way sometimes.

Tknife, you are the man. PERIOD.

See Cliff, it appears to be an observation that you spend to much time on the internet. I have been in Law Enforcement for the last ten plus years and have heard the term "Mall Ninja", "Mall Recon" or "Mall Commando" used throughout my career. And I assure those that use and still use the terms that I know did not get it from an internet site. What am I getting at with this? YOU SPEND TO MUCH TIME ON THE INTERNET.

I do not need to prove anything to you. And who the hell are you call anyone anything (like Mall Ninja), what have you done in your life time that gives you the right to make such statements against anyone?? (Actually don't answer that because I really don't care.)

You see I believe you live a very secluded life. And it appears that the internet is your life. You take it very seriously. You should really take a break and enjoy real life.

Skammer,
I understand that it is very easy for individuals to get behind a key board and lie about what they are or do for a living.
I do not need to prove anything to you or anyone else. And if my sharing has caused anyone reading to think I something I am not then they are reading into it or just trying to start crap. I have NEVER portrayed to be something I am not, nor will I ever.


It's really too bad that this thread has been overshadowed with nonsense. I joined this site a few years back and in the beginning I did a lot of lurking, buying and selling. It was rare for me to write on anything because I was very apprehensive that this kind of stuff would happen to me when I did write about a knife. Well I was right. I am out.

 

[Temper]

Aww man, don't blow off the forum because of one guy. You can't please all of the people all of the time. This place has too much of a clique'y' feeling to it. One more that dissapears just makes the 'Dark Side' all the stronger.

I felt like you a few weeks ago in the political forum. Some people you are just not going to agree with dispite an apparent 'similar interest'

 

[pict]

Debate is a good thing. You can read manufacturers hype all day long on the internet. Experimentation and side by side comparisons are valuable information.

There really isn't any substitute for experimentation in this field. The kind of work Cliff does with his blades is valuable. Personally I'm glad he's out there ragging his blades to a nubbin because he's pretty free with his findings and that saves me money. I got a big kick out of his BK-7 vs cinderblock test back when I was looking to buy my BK-7. I will never willingly attack a cinderblock with mine but now I don't have to.

Personal experience with a blade is valuable and I'm glad to read about it. If someone has used a blade for years that in itself is a good form of experimentation. I like to hear about what people have acutally done with whatever knife they are discussing. What are its strengths and weaknesses, etc.

Solomon said "There is much wisdom in the multitude of counselors." This forum is a great place to air that collected wisdom. Everyone here has their niche, or that place where they know of what they speak. Keep writing, this is one of the only places you can get such personalized special knowledge for free.

The internet is a tough place to debate at times becuase it can get personal in the absence of tone of voice and inflection that otherwise moderate our commnication. It's been my observaton that anything erroneous or dangerous gets slapped down pretty quick. Flat out subjective opinions are usually pretty easy to spot and can be evaluated as such. Mac

 

[tknife]

Hey VM, this one got a little out of hand, but I hope you still hang around and post.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I do not need to prove anything to you.

It isn't about proving anything to anyone, it is simply about supporting your arguement with facts and logic, of course you don't have to do it.

If the reeve one piece line was as lacking as you say Cliff, maybe you should call Chris Reeve personally

I have talked to Reeve on the phone, he sent me one of his knives to review. He is well aware of my thoughts on his knives.

The above comments in regards to hollow handle / sawbacks are not issues with the Reeve design specifically, they would apply to any blade of that type.

Reeve is better than most in that regard as the one-piece nature eliminates a possible weakness in the handle/grip join.

I got a big kick out of his BK-7 vs cinderblock test back when I was looking to buy my BK-7.

Yeah, it sounds pretty wild to most people, if you do a lot of outdoor work it isn't as dramatic as it sounds, I would much rather whack into a block than a rock hidden in weeds any day. In fact a large knot can be worse than a concrete block. I took a huge piece out of the face of an axe while back on a knot, it would have pretty much cleaved a block in half with one swing with just minor edge blunting.

-Cliff