Rehashing "flex"

Slight changes in the cross section of the epee blade certainly can make a big difference.It was much easier to try the blade rather than try to measure cross section. A soft section in the blade will bend in use , then you are constantly straightening it !! My failure analysis was done for the most part on foil blades [pre-electric] and found they were made of dirty steel .The sharp corners also on beats put nicks in the blades .Typical failures were fatigue failures due to these two factors. Maraging steel blades ? They're supposed to work much better .Most maraging steel goes into golf clubs today !!! My thesis was about a maraging steel and I knew much about the use and development of the steels .Those metallurgists would cringe if they knew about the golf clubs !!
 
mete said:
Slight changes in the cross section of the epee blade certainly can make a big difference.It was much easier to try the blade rather than try to measure cross section. A soft section in the blade will bend in use , then you are constantly straightening it !! My failure analysis was done for the most part on foil blades [pre-electric] and found they were made of dirty steel .The sharp corners also on beats put nicks in the blades .Typical failures were fatigue failures due to these two factors. Maraging steel blades ? They're supposed to work much better .Most maraging steel goes into golf clubs today !!! My thesis was about a maraging steel and I knew much about the use and development of the steels .Those metallurgists would cringe if they knew about the golf clubs !!
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Mete, what exactly IS maraging steel? I know that FIE blades are supposed to use it, and it is theoretically supposed to break square and flat instead of pointy according to the equipment manufacturers, but that is about the extent of what I know about it, my experience with it is that it it yeilds with almost no pressure, so when I was playing with maraging blades I had to straighten them constantly, kind of like fencing with taffy:confused:

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What bladesmith divides a hypothetical blade into a series of say one millimeter cross sections and then divides it lengthwise the same, and every other possible angle, measures the outside from every possible angle, calculates it all out geometrically, and tries to analyze and explain it in geometric terms,... before making the blade for what ever it's intended use is going to be?

Obviously we attempt the geometry intuitively and then test it. As we gain experience we learn how to use geometry and heat treating together to make the kinds of blades we want to make.

... and with practice and experience we also develop our intuition,... and get better at recognizing it and using it.
 
Tai Goo said:
What bladesmith divides a hypothetical blade into a series of say one millimeter cross sections and then divides it lengthwise the same, and every other possible angle, measures the outside from every possible angle, calculates it all out geometrically, and tries to analyze and explain it in geometric terms,... before making the blade for what ever it's intended use is going to be?
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I saw an example of someone doing exactly that (OK it was trying to re-create an 800 year old sword for testing)

I have a lot of respect for this particular gentleman's research (and I hope he publishes it someday!)

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There's really no way to eliminate intuition from the bladesmithing equation,... without eliminating the bladesmith. However, we do use "facts" to feed our intuition.
 
sunshadow said:
I saw an example of someone doing exactly that (OK it was trying to re-create an 800 year old sword for testing)

I have a lot of respect for this particular gentleman's research (and I hope he publishes it someday!)

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This sounds impractical for most smiths, and I'm curious how successful and thorough it really was. It sounds silly to me, and there are many other variables to the bladesmithing equation that need to be figured in. It's not an equation that can be done completely through conventional math or science when we start to figure in things like heat treating, aesthetics, preferences, history and tastes.

In essence, you can’t recreate the past, at least not at this point in history.
 
There's really no way to eliminate intuition out of the math or science equation, without eliminating the mathematician or the scientists with all their personal biases, agendas and perspectives.

... We could go on and on like this indefinitely...
 
Tai Goo said:
This sounds impractical for most smiths, and I'm curious how successful and thorough it really was. It sounds silly to me, and there are many other variables to the bladesmithing equation that need to be figured in. It's not an equation that can be done completely through conventional math or science when we start to figure in things like heat treating, aesthetics, preferences, history and tastes.

In essence, you can’t recreate the past, at least not at this point in history.
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re-create no
attempt to replicate as accurately as possible so that we can attempt to understand? that's experimental archaeology.

I am currently trying to replicate as accurately as possible a representative 13th century single edged knife based on several documented finds that have been analysed in the Museum of London of London book "Knives and Scabbards"
That quest led me to take up bloom smelting so that I might more accurately match the original composition of the artifacts. Eventually if all goes well I will create enough wrought iron that I can carburize some to create blister steel for making the edge so that I can match the wrought iron back/blister steel edge construction of the group ofartifacts I am trying to replicate

beyond that, there is something deeply satisfying -primal- about starting with wood and rock and creating a metal blade from its product that just doesn't come from forging barstock

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sunshadow said:
re-create no
attempt to replicate as accurately as possible so that we can attempt to understand? that's experimental archaeology.

I am currently trying to replicate as accurately as possible a representative 13th century single edged knife based on several documented finds that have been analysed in the Museum of London of London book "Knives and Scabbards"
That quest led me to take up bloom smelting so that I might more accurately match the original composition of the artifacts. Eventually if all goes well I will create enough wrought iron that I can carburize some to create blister steel for making the edge so that I can match the wrought iron back/blister steel edge construction of the group ofartifacts I am trying to replicate

beyond that, there is something deeply satisfying -primal- about starting with wood and rock and creating a metal blade from its product that just doesn't come from forging barstock

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It's one good way to learn things. :)
 
Tai Goo said:
This is just too much fun!

How's a guy supposed to get any work done?
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Now we're at the existential point-

Like Carlin said, about the Catholic church, and sinning (and I will paraphrase as I do not have the exact quote) growing up if you wanted to cop a feel, you might as well because just by WANNA you had already committed the sin

This is not physical knife work, but existentially it is very productive (now I just have to figure out how to charge physical money for existential smithing):D

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Jason Magruder said:
Why would you want to do that? I just can't bring myself to throw something out that might be usefull someday. I think I'll just keep them all handy. Just in case:D
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Good "universal perspective"!

Merrily Merrily Merrily, life is but a dream! :D
 
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