Response thread to jerry's post.

[Last Visible Canary]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8857918&postcount=41

Do you know why she would feel hurt?. . . Because you called her fat! . . . BUT if you say that you ate a big "fat" steak for lunch, would she still be offended because you labeled something else as "fat"? . . . If so, dump her immediately, because she is most assuredly nuts!

Same rule applies here. If we were calling any woman a slut or said that she looked "slutty", then it would most definitely be out of line. HOWEVER, we are not doing that. . . we have labeled a particular knife build A SLUT, much along the lines a "fat steak". In turn, if we follow your line of logic then I can only think about how many "Anorexics" we have offended in the past by calling our skinny knives by that name. We have, likewise, made a lot of "fat" models in the past. . . . I now realize that I too have probably been deeply offended because I'm a fat guy. . . . .

Perhaps we should call them the "Cut SLUTS". . . 'cause they cut like crazy!!!!! :thumbup:

I'll be drinking, :thumbup:

Jerry


PS. . . Any further discussion of the name SLUT should be had in a new thread dedicated to that subject alone. There will be no further discussion in this thread.

Back on point. . . . The new CUT SLUT line is killer cool ! ! ! !



.

Here's the thing. There is a difference between descriptive and derogatory. There is a difference between derogatory and sexually derogatory.

fat: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fat
anerexic: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anorexic
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anorexia+nervosa
slut: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slut

There are a multitude of ways to use the word fat that have nothing to do with body image, and it's generally excepted that when you hear the word fat standing on it's own it could be in reference to many things, not one single thing such as a fat woman. fat as in lipids, fat as in over the normal size, fat as in "phat" if spoken, and many others.

Anerexia is a disorder, while it may offend those who have or are suffering from the disorder, it's a directed word that. if qualified can be used in a more non-offensive way. If you describe something as 'anorexic' you are describing it as being excessively thin. When comparing to body image, which is universal to all humans, there is a scale, the thinnest being 'anerexic' and the heaviest being 'mortaly obese' or some other qualifier in front of the word. It will offend some, but it's understandable how the word can be used to describe size.

Slut is different.
1.a dirty, slovenly woman.
2.an immoral or dissolute woman; prostitute.
It's a word that is used to degrade women into feeling low about their sexuality, often times without any merit and used solely to make them feel bad. With qualifiers you can use the word in a way that directs it away from sexuality, such as "I'm a slut for knives" or "I'm a slut for import beers". While it may still offend some, in it's context it's lightening the immediately recognizable negativity of the word. It's literally saying "I am immorally associated with this item in the same way that a prostitute is immorally associated with sex". It still has the original connotations, but with distinct qualifiers.

That isn't what your doing. "Cut Slut" on it's own is a) a woman who someone felt was "a slut" whose been lacerated or b) a prostitute whose been lacerated. Only because this is on a knife forum do I lastly, after having considered why someone like you would even post a phrase like that anywhere, do I consider "A slut for cutting things, in reference to knives". Slut is not the same. It's playing with a term that is used almost solely in our society to put down women for their sexuality, to make them feel low.



I'm sure that part of the reason why there was so little negative response in the initial thread until later pages is because it's you who started it. a "well if he said it..." response. Both moderators immediately commented that they were ready to impose an infraction before they realized it was you who posted it: there's a good reason for that. The more you fill out this naming scheme the more offensive it's going to get, and not like 'fat' or 'anorexic'. It's your knife, your company, your subforum.

 

[DowntownDM]

I couldn't disagree more (in general, not directed toward LVC personally).

The degree of "sensitivity" surrounding this topic is alarmingly ridiculous, IMO.

Followed only in its absurdity by the arbitrary double standard(s) inherent within this debate.

This isn't sunday school, nor a day care facility, nor a nail salon - but (and how can one really disagree given the nature of MANY of the conversations and comments and reoccurring themes) more like a neighborhood bar.

Grow up, I say, and put your big-kid drawers on.

No one is suggesting vile or hateful speech.

And nothing of the sort has happened.

Need a tissue?

 

[drbarnes]

wow. do you have nothing better to do? are you upset about assistant managers that have their title abbreviated as ass. manager? its just a name, get over it.

cough, free speech, cough.

 

[TrailWolf]

I think the bigger issue like leatherman and 230 hit on is that this forum is either family friendly or not - no grey areas...

 

[Liu Kang]

This is exactly what we don't want, making a huge deal ablout it. Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. Jerry thought it was a smart play on words to spell something backwards and use each letter to stand for something. But of course some people started using this in a negative form which some didn't agree with. Let it go, the huge deal should be how we can get our hands on one, and not by calling each other names.

 

[Last Visible Canary]

I've grown to understand that results are generally more important than intent in how you choose to act around others. If telling your girlfriend/wife/any-female she looks fat in a pair of pants is intended to show that you believe honestly is important, she's still going to feel hurt regardless of what your intent was. You can get the point across without saying the words "you look fat". Words mean things, often universal things within a given society. In this instance, it's a very well defined, well known word that is either negative in connotation, or used in instances that are not currently considered work environment friendly (and even then still often negative).

I'll reiterate whats in the post jerry was responding too, specifically that results are generally more important than intent.

When you start making a laundry list of slut jokes, it starts to feel like it belongs in either whine and cheese or pirates cove. I'm not the owner of bladeforums so it's not my call whats acceptable on subforums when initiated by the proprietors. I get the comedy. I also get that it's 4chan/juvenile humor that's meant to make light of offensive material that is difficult or impossible to make light of in every day conversation. Such material not being family or work friendly.

I'm not in a position to decide whether this is to be considered a library, a starbucks, or wine bar, or a dive bar. At the same time, when I come onto the board and see "SLUT" as the title of the proprietors thread, I don't want it to go without a modicum of dissent, until this place is officially designated as a 'bar' where terms that are known to incite discomfort and offense are freely used without the need for consideration or moderation.

 

[leatherman]

I've got to agree with LVC and trailwolf here, its either ok or its not. We cant have gray areas when its convenient.

 

[Tony G]

I had an old girlfriend that call me a slut all the time.

I call my cats food whores.

We often call candidates political whores.

I can only think of a few words that are so inflammatory that no matter the context people get upset. Those words are all racial pejoratives.

The issue is not whether a word is inflammatory, language is neutral. It's a question of the context in which is language is used. If any word (but a few) out of context upset people those people need to go back and look at intent. It is just that simple.

This forum use to be fun and funny and when Jerry posted that thread it gave me hope that it was heading back in that direction. There use to be many threads that were just for the purpose of being fun or funny and everyone understood that. I sometimes thought that it was Jerry's fault that this had changed; this discussion made me think that maybe it was more the fault of the forum members lack of understanding of words and humor.

Now can we all agree that this is a "NICE PUSSY"?

 

[drift draft]

I like Tulsa.

 

[leatherman]

I had an old girlfriend that call me a slut all the time.

I call my cats food whores.

We often call candidates political whores.

I can only think of a few words that are so inflammatory that no matter the context people get upset. Those words are all racial pejoratives.

The issue is not whether a word is inflammatory, language is neutral. It's a question of the context in which is language is used. If any word (but a few) out of context upset people those people need to go back and look at intent. It is just that simple.

This forum use to be fun and funny and when Jerry posted that thread it gave me hope that it was heading back in that direction. There use to be many threads that were just for the purpose of being fun or funny and everyone understood that. I sometimes thought that it was Jerry's fault that this had changed; this discussion made me think that maybe it was more the fault of the forum members lack of understanding of words and humor.

That is my point entirely! Thank you! The inside jokes and innuendo were funny. But the whole Zardoz thing and some others, caused a back pedal to a G rated rule, it does all direct back to that time. The new customer base has caused things to change, good or bad, its change.

I wish it could be like it was back in the day, 2001 or so, it was light hearted and down to earth. Talk of mac and cheese, ramen noodles and CBL to save enough to get your Busse knife have turned into JBL and fine cigars and not having enough to get the whole line at a time. Its a totally different customer base, thus a whole different way of doing business.

 

[AZTimT]

Two things and I'm done with this topic :barf: :thumbdn: as I hope everyone else soon will be.

1. Nothing was said in the threads that hasn't been said in worse ways on TV which I am sure more kids are seeing than this family friendly forum.

2. For a group of people who like sharp knives so much, you would think thick skin would be an obvious necessity vs all of this politically correct garbage.

Everyone is going to be OK, m'kay. Now let's get back to talking about fun stuff. :thumbup:

 

[Tony G]

I'll reiterate whats in the post jerry was responding too, specifically that results are generally more important than intent.

I very strongly disagree. Many times people get inflamed about words simply because they are ignorant. This is a long story but a great example.

"The incident occurred when Jacobowitz shouted, "Shut up, you water buffalo," out his window to a crowd of mostly black Delta Sigma Theta sorority sisters creating a ruckus outside his dorm. Others had shouted at the crowd, including several who shouted racial epithets, but Jacobowitz was the only one charged.

Initially Jacobowitz had an advisor assigned to him, who urged him to accept the University's offer of a settlement. The settlement required him to admit to violating the racial harassment policy. He refused and retained another advisor, history professor Alan Charles Kors.

Jacobowitz explained his choice of "water buffalo" as from Hebrew slang, "Behema," used by Jews to refer to a loud, rowdy person. He procured several expert witnesses who attested to this and others, such as Michael Meyers, who gave testimonies that "water buffalo" was not a racial epithet against African Americans.

Jacobowitz's story was brought to the fore by the media focus on Penn and on April 23, several days before his hearing, the New York-based Jewish Daily Forward broke his story with the headline "Pennsylvania Preparing to Buffalo a Yeshiva Boy" The story gained even wider media coverage after the Wall Street Journal picked up the story with an editorial entitled "Buffaloed at Penn." Jacobowitz was interviewed on television several times.

Based on testimony that Jacobowitz had called the women "water buffalo" and the university's belief that this was a racial epithet, they proceeded with prosecuting him. On May 13, 1993, news anchor John Chancellor had the following commentary:

Eden Jacobowitz is a student at the University of Pennsylvania. His studies were interrupted by a noisy crowd of students, many black and female. He yelled out his window, "Shut up, you water buffalo." He is now charged with racial harassment under the university's Code of Conduct. The school offered to dismiss the charge if he would apologize, attend a racial sensitivity seminar, agree to dormitory probation, and accept a temporary mark on his record which would brand him as guilty. He was told the term "water buffalo" could be interpreted as racist because a water buffalo is a dark primitive animal that lives in Africa. That is questionable semantics, dubious zoology, and incorrect geography. Water buffalo live in Asia, not in Africa. This from the University of Pennsylvania. Mr. Jacobowitz is fighting back. The rest of us, however, are still in trouble. The language police are at work on the campuses of our better schools. The word cops are marching under the banner of political correctness. The culture of victimization is hunting for quarry. American English is in danger of losing its muscle and energy. That's what these bozos are doing to us.[1][2]

Despite the public outcry and widespread media coverage, the University refused to discuss or explain its actions. The hearing was delayed for another two months while international press commented and criticized Penn's decisions. Garry Trudeau devoted a Sunday's Doonesbury to the water buffalo incident.[3]

Despite repeated requests by Jacobowitz's legal teams to have charges dropped, the University pressed forward. At the hearing the panel decided not to dismiss the charges and issued a gag order to keep proceedings from leaking to the press. The University's actions during the hearing would later come under some fire when it was revealed that they charged him with using racial epithets despite knowing that he had been absolved by a university police investigation.

"

 

[J. Oeser]

I just went back and read all of the post in the multiple threads regarding this topic. I think all of this is so funny. DowntownDM put it very well. Far too many double standards here.

I am a fairly conservative guy and as much as we are trying to say this is a family friendly forum, it is not to me. I wouldn't (fortunately none of my kids are old enough to read) let my kids read this forum. There are whole threads dedicated to what type of whiskey or rum is your favorite. Certainly not information my kids need to know. Along with other, not so subtle, innuendos of different nature that I don't want my kids asking me about. I participate in this forum for the knives, the few friends I have made, and an occasional laugh. I understand the off topic discussions were here before I arrived and will continue after I am gone and choose not to participate if I don't agree with them. IMO, in the same way that I can choose not to buy a certain model of knife for whatever reason I deem fit, so can any one choose to boycott a knife for it's name or not participate in a thread.

 

[Tony G]

That is my point entirely! Thank you! The inside jokes and innuendo were funny. But the whole Zardoz thing and some others, caused a back pedal to a G rated rule, it does all direct back to that time. The new customer base has caused things to change, good or bad, its change.

I wish it could be like it was back in the day, 2001 or so, it was light hearted and down to earth. Talk of mac and cheese, ramen noodles and CBL to save enough to get your Busse knife have turned into JBL and fine cigars and not having enough to get the whole line at a time. Its a totally different customer base, thus a whole different way of doing business.

I disagree you can't kiss azz just because it is a dumb one. Other wise this politically correct thing some day will make the first amendment something that you can't post.

.

 

[Cappy2cap]

READY?! LETS DROP THIS THREAD...1....2.....3

its only gonna cause probs.

 

[chickenplucker]

Thanks for the giveaway!!!! I'll take #444

 

[stanley_white]

Two wars and an economic crisis at present.

The topic of this thread isn't exactly on my top ten list of things to get upset about.

-Stan

 

[Ken44]

If you all don't hush we will never see the Busse WHORE, or the Busse BITCH series come to fruit:grumpy:

 

[Trijicog]

I never knew men could be so sensitive,must be part of the newer and kinder generation of coddled boys that grew a vagina at some point in adulthood.

 

[J. Oeser]

I'm sure the three posts above offended somebody but they are still funny and true to some degree or another.