Rick Hinderer sent Cease and Desist to Youtuber for saying the steel was soft in his knife?

[Sharp & Fiery]

I want to agree with you but trying to use social can also make it a bigger disaster. Hoback tried it and everything he said made it exponentially worse. A strongly worded letter might be a better form of damage control in some cases.

Not trying to be contrary but some of that would be in the back of my mind if I was in RHK’s shoes right now.

I generally would agree with this. However, Hoback was in the wrong…all the way.

RHK has, as far as I know, been up front and honest about their knives. The HT, the design purposes, the warrantee, all on the up and up.

TK has one amateur test and a big mouth. Haha.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Most of us here are employees, not business owners. Hard to even relate to your hard-earned business reputation and earning potential being threatened or affected by random internet opinion.

Most business startups fail. To sacrifice personal and family time for years to build a business…I think I’d defend that however I see fit. Maybe even aggressively? Lol. Cmon. Give RHK a break here.

It isn’t just some guys opinion.. he’s hiding that opinion behind “testing” that is suspect.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

And I disagree that RHK needs to get into a social media fight with every idiot making stuff in his garage trying to stir up controversy. The C&D is the professional response.

RHK’s C&D is now a social media “fight.”

 

[King of the Cheese]

I generally would agree with this. However, Hoback was in the wrong…all the way.

RHK has, as far as I know, been up front and honest about their knives. The HT, the design purposes, the warrantee, all on the up and up.

TK has one amateur test and a big mouth. Haha.

A big mouth that could absolutely damage Hinderer’s rep if this spirals out of control.

 

[King of the Cheese]

RHK’s C&D is now a social media “fight.”

Who shared images of the C&D?

 

[Murdamook]

Imagine that, a lawsuit against someone that is trying to intimidate and financially harm RHK being called an act of “intimidation and financial harm” against TK.

You find it odd that people that have known and used RHK knives for years and possibly have used them and entrusted them to save lives would take issue with a low-tier Instagram drama Queen bashing his steel hardness? Uh, okay?

What I don’t find odd is how frequently you fail to grasp a point. I’m stating that Rick has been passive aggressive and insulting for years and no one seemed to care until this dude roused his fan base.

To your first point, whether or not you agree with it, RHK sent the C&D to try and force TK to stop what he is doing using the threat of a lawsuit. That fits the very definition of intimidation. So, quit your pearl clutching, and recognize that, regardless of where you stand on this issue, that is the direct intent of the C&D letter.

 

[schluterc]

Both of these guys will be at Blade……forget the pit, maybe someone should setup a hardness testing booth…..

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Who shared images of the C&D?

Who cares? The fuel was given and now the “social media fire” has become a blaze.

 

[King of the Cheese]

What I don’t find odd is how frequently you fail to grasp a point. I’m stating that Rick has passive aggressive and insulting for years and no one seemed to care until this dude roused his fan base.

Try being objective here. I give two sh*ts who is “passive aggressive” IRL. This an objective dispute over hardness testing and TK drew first blood by insulting RHK.

To your first point, whether or not you agree with it, RHK sent the C&D to try and force TK to stop what he is doing using the threat of a lawsuit. That fits the very definition of intimidation. So, quit your pearl clutching, and recognize that, regardless of where you stand on this issue, that is the direct intent of the C&D letter.

They’re both playing the intimidation card. No one is “clutching pearls” here except TK.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Who cares? The fuel was given and now the “social media fire” has become a blaze.

Then don’t blame Hinderer for the c&d hitting Instagram when TK is the one that shared it with the world.

 

[Murdamook]

If the lower spec is 59 then 58.6 is within spec. Only if the lower spec is 59.0 would the 58.6 be out. The number of significant figures in the stated spec range determines if the 58.6 should be rounded up to 59 or not.

I’ll repeat this again, since most seem to still be parroting this (and I have no horse in the race, just clarifying): TK doesn’t care that the RC number is “out of spec”, based on his videos. What he has stated is that he believes RHK’s spec range is too soft for the steel being used. Agree with him or don’t, but the knife testing low in RC wasn’t the issue he had.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Then don’t blame Hinderer for the c&d hitting Instagram when TK is the one that shared it with the world.

I didn’t blame RHK. But he did send it right?

 

[ScarFoot]

I generally would agree with this. However, Hoback was in the wrong…all the way.

RHK has, as far as I know, been up front and honest about their knives. The HT, the design purposes, the warrantee, all on the up and up.

TK has one amateur test and a big mouth. Haha.

Agree 100% about Hoback. Just using it as another recent example of the power of the internet.
I’d probably still go the C&D route myself because, if I didn’t, I’d say something stupid that would be on the internet forever lol…

 

[Murdamook]

Try being objective here. I give two sh*ts who is “passive aggressive” IRL. This an objective dispute over hardness testing and TK drew first blood by insulting RHK.

They’re both playing the intimidation card. No one is “clutching pearls” here except TK.

I am being objective. In fact, I think my reactions have been some of the most objective in the thread. You can say TK is intimidating, that’s fine. What I’m telling you is that RHK is using potential litigation as intimidation and that fits a very specific legal definition that opens him up to potential Anti-SLAPP rulings if he doesn’t tread carefully. That’s as objective as it gets. This isn’t my perspective; it’s absolute fact.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Try being objective here. I give two sh*ts who is “passive aggressive” IRL. This an objective dispute over hardness testing and TK drew first blood by insulting RHK.

They’re both playing the intimidation card. No one is “clutching pearls” here except TK.

If RHK wasn’t nervous…why would they send a C&D letter?

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Agree 100% about Hoback. Just using it as another recent example of the power of the internet.
I’d probably still go the C&D route myself because, if I didn’t, I’d say something stupid that would be on the internet forever lol…

This is so true. Lol. That is why employing good PR people is a must!

 

[benchwarmer380]

I’ll repeat this again, since most seem to still be parroting this (and I have no horse in the race, just clarifying): TK doesn’t care that the RC number is “out of spec”, based on his videos. What he has stated is that he believes RHK’s spec range is too soft for the steel being used. Agree with him or don’t, but the knife testing low in RC wasn’t the issue he had.

If that is his opinion, great. But considering that the spec range is published, him personally testing the knives was completely immaterial to his point.

People are harping on that aspect because it very much seems that he is using his tests to bolster his opinion. Otherwise, what was the point of doing them?

 

[ferider]

I’ll repeat this again, since most seem to still be parroting this (and I have no horse in the race, just clarifying): TK doesn’t care that the RC number is “out of spec”, based on his videos. What he has stated is that he believes RHK’s spec range is too soft for the steel being used. Agree with him or don’t, but the knife testing low in RC wasn’t the issue he had.

Much more than this. TK said:

• The hardness that RKH advertises for its knives is “garbage”
• (Paraphrased) RKH lacks the competence to grind steel above 62 HRC
• RKH needs to “improve” and “do a better job”

(Sounds like my ex-wife, BTW )

From Rick's perspective, the above are likely bigger issues than TK opining that RHK’s spec range is too soft.

Roland.

 

[Knives&Lint]

Like sands through the hourglass...

I've been hearing about this here and there over the past few weeks, but every time I tried to force myself through one of videos where someone was whining about it I just couldn't see where the meat of the argument was or frankly what the big deal was to warrant trashing Hinderer the way they were.

Count me as another with no real dog in this fight, but just watching it unfold and shaking my head. I had previously heard of TK and had been somewhat intrigued by his work, and I am a fan of Hinderer knives, but by no means am I what would be considered a fanboy. First of all, IMO the real overreaction here is trashing a well established company in the industry with questionable measurements on 1 out of 12 knives where the one that was "out of spec" was within the margin of error . Whether Rick's response was an overreaction is debatable, but I'm not sure if it helped him any. Perhaps he felt like this was the only way that he could get his position on the matter out there and effectively heard, all in one succinct statement, rather than squabbling on the internet. My guess is however, as with most things these days, people will remain in their echo chambers only listening to content that reinforces their preconceived ideas.

I used to rather enjoy watching YouTube knife content, but I'm finding that this is becoming the case less and less. More often now it seems to be sessions of people getting slobbed on by their fanbase for an hour and a half, or a half dozen reviews a week of knives being churned out of a region I have no interest in purchasing knives from. My point here is to question how much of this is driven by the need for content and views. Call me old school (I'm only 45), but I hearken back to a time when being cool with people was cool and drama was considered bi*** sh**, and it was highly frowned upon to find it necessary to talk down on the next man to promote yourself. If TK can produce superior blades to production knives, great, I'm all for it; if so let the product speak for itself. I actually would've thought he was doing well for himself if he wasn't begging on the internet for people to help him fund backing up his own statements.

 

[Murdamook]

If that is his opinion, great. But considering that the spec range is published, him personally testing the knives was completely immaterial to his point.

People are harping on that aspect because it very much seems that he is using his tests to bolster his opinion. Otherwise, what was the point of doing them?

Well, based on the videos in which he explained everything, he was testing the steel to see if it fell within the stated range originally, then he posted the results in a general post about the XM. He stated his machines have a +/- .5 variability, so the knife could be within range, but the key problem, as he stated it, was the range itself.