Rick Hinderer sent Cease and Desist to Youtuber for saying the steel was soft in his knife?

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DeadboxHero said:
"E110" is for portable hardness testers
ASTM E110-14

They don't share the table of requirements but reference them in Annex A1.1.2 "shall be within tolerances given in E18 for rockwell hardness testers."

The requirements for indirect verification procedures are in ASTM E18-20, A1.4, Table A1.3.
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Reported for eroticism.
 
not2sharp said:
How different had he invited the clown over to his shop and invited him to rerun his tests correctly. It would have been a teaching moment for everyone and it would have debunked the misinformation and been a net positive for the brand. There is no negative exposure, just a nice opportunity to properly present the brand to a new audience.
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Doesn't Hinderer send the knives out for HT? What would be the point of going to the Hinderer shop?
 
TransparentKnives said:
Alright, I'm going to clarify a few things. I don't typically hang out in Bladeforums, so I won't be going back and forth with anyone.
1. Contrary to what the C&D says, Rick Hinderer never reached out to me. Even when we were in the same chat room during the USA Made Blade livestream, Rick did not respond to me when I @'d him. When I joined the livestream with Whitty to talk about the situation, Rick chose to lurk in the comments rather than defend his position publicly.
2. I do not care about .2 Rockwell points. At all. My argument was that M390/20CV/204P are high wear resistance steel variants best run harder if used at all. I said 59 HRC M390 (the lower end of Hinderer's target range) is does not perform satisfactorily for me. 61 HRC (the higher end) I find personally acceptable, though I prefer higher in a high performance cutting tool. Keep in mind 59-61 is a very wide range. Additionally, I stated that if Hinderer's goal is durable, robust blades then perhaps a steel like 3V or MagnaCut would be more appropriate rather than taking a steel with low toughness by design (due to high carbide volume) and lowering its hardness to take away one of its only advantages as a blade steel. For those unfamiliar with the effect of hardness on edge retention, please see controlled cut tests by people like outpost76.
3. I have covered this numerous times, but the low thermal conductivity of steel means heat travels very slowly from the point of introduction. Grinding a flipper tab off under coolant would not affect the hardness on the flats where the blade was tested. This can be easily proven by testing any blade on the flats before grinding off the flipper tab slowly and under coolant, and then testing it again afterwards. The result will be the same. These are repeatable and easy to perform tests. In addition, I find it ironic that Hinderer would complain about a flipper tab when A) there is video evidence of him grinding with no coolant on Youtube, B) he was doing so on the bevels themselves C) recent Instagram posts show him sharpening on a belt grinder with no coolant again which has been shown by knifesteelnerds and others to lower the hardness at the edge where it matters and cause burning and fatigue at the apex.
4. Other companies have sent me soft blades before, as lemons and one-offs happen. WE Knives for example apologized and sent me a new blade with proper heat treat when I got a soft Bishop. I applauded them for it.
5. A +- .5 range can go either way. Assuming that something at 58.8 average Rockwell is automatically 59.3 doesn't make sense. It could also be 58.3. I left the door open to it possibly being in spec because, again, I do not care. I personally think the spec is suboptimal.
6. I did not say Hinderer uses "soft steel" in general. I made no claims about their other blade steels, except for their S45VN which I actually complimented because it performed well in cut testing. I took issue only with the spec and performance of their 20CV, nothing more nothing less.
7. The claim Hinderer has made and wants me to make in an apology video that M390 at 62 HRC or above is "chippy" would not only force me to lie because it isn't true, but also undermine companies doing a good job. Clark runs M390 at 63 HRC. Cultrotech runs it 62-64 HRC using Yanook heat treating. Spyderco runs Paramilitaries at 62 HRC. These knives perform well. Why should I say that good knives are bad just because Hinderer is upset? Take a 62 HRC M390 Para2 and a 59 HRC Hinderer (in spec). Cut test them. Tell me which performs better.
8. I'm sorry for being poor. I just started making knives in earnest. I promised to show receipts and donate any money not used on the gofundme to charity. If you don't believe me, that is your right. I'm just a stranger to you, especially if you've never heard of me before. However, I do not agree that being poor means I should be shit on by a larger company for having my own opinions on proper steel choice, optimal heat treat, and applicable edge geometries.
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Dude, I don’t really feel like I’m on your side and much of what you’ve posted doesn’t jive with your actions…
But…WTF are you doing? You just voluntarily deposed yourself without legal counsel.

No point in editing your post, that’s permanent, but use some gofundme money to consult an attorney.

And don’t think you can do a Drive By. This place is about interaction and accountability. You can’t drop Post #1 and think you’re done. That won’t win you hearts and minds.

You’ve only hurt your standing in the knife community. Again, I’m skeptical of your intent and motive, but I feel compelled to tell you you’re effing up.

I wish you good luck, kind of.
 
Hackenslash said:
Dude, I don’t really feel like I’m on your side and much of what you’ve posted doesn’t jive with your actions…
But…WTF are you doing? You just voluntarily deposed yourself without legal counsel.

No point in editing your post, that’s permanent, but use some gofundme money to consult an attorney.

And don’t think you can do a Drive By. This place is about interaction and accountability. You can’t drop Post #1 and think you’re done. That won’t win you hearts and minds.

You’ve only hurt your standing in the knife community. Again, I’m skeptical of your intent and motive, but I feel compelled to tell you you’re effing up.

I wish you good luck, kind of.
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If you actually followed this from the beginning you’d see he’s been honest from the start. But Hinderer and his buddy got mad about a little bad pub that would have blown over in a day and thought they could intimidate Transparent. That didn’t work so he’s trying again through litigation.

Considering the fact Bohler themselves say it should be heat treated 60-62 makes a pretty weak argument for RHK against what Transparent has been saying all along. It won’t be too hard for a decent lawyer to get this thrown out. Its just sad and embarrassing he is making a guy who lives at home and mods knives in a garage jump through these hoops. All RHK has done is create a bigger mess for himself by this engaging in this BS lawsuit.

Rick Hinderer is doubling down on the Streisand effect and it’s wild to watch it unfold.
 
Ryan Stoltman said:
If you actually followed this from the beginning you’d see he’s been honest from the start. But Hinderer and his buddy got mad about a little bad pub that would have blown over in a day and thought they could intimidate Transparent. That didn’t work so he’s trying again through litigation.

Considering the fact Bohler themselves say it should be heat treated 60-62 makes a pretty weak argument for RHK against what Transparent has been saying all along. It won’t be too hard for a decent lawyer to get this thrown out. Its just sad and embarrassing he is making a guy who lives at home and mods knives in a garage jump through these hoops. All RHK has done is create a bigger mess for himself by this engaging in this BS lawsuit.

Rick Hinderer is doubling down on the Streisand effect and it’s wild to watch it unfold.
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I'm sure when Transparent winds up in jail he's employ the time honoured tactic of picking a fight with the biggest guy in the yard. Please let us know how that goes from the beginning.
 
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Ryan Stoltman said:
If you actually followed this from the beginning you’d see he’s been honest from the start. But Hinderer and his buddy got mad about a little bad pub that would have blown over in a day and thought they could intimidate Transparent. That didn’t work so he’s trying again through litigation.

Considering the fact Bohler themselves say it should be heat treated 60-62 makes a pretty weak argument for RHK against what Transparent has been saying all along. It won’t be too hard for a decent lawyer to get this thrown out. Its just sad and embarrassing he is making a guy who lives at home and mods knives in a garage jump through these hoops. All RHK has done is create a bigger mess for himself by this engaging in this BS lawsuit.

Rick Hinderer is doubling down on the Streisand effect and it’s wild to watch it unfold.
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I’ve followed this from the beginning. Check out my posts earlier in this thread.

I disagree with everything you’ve written. I can be as dismissive of you’re intellect as you’ve been of mine.

The difference is, I won’t be. Have a great day.
 
Hackenslash said:
I’ve followed this from the beginning. Check out my posts earlier in this thread.

I disagree with everything you’ve written. I can be as dismissive of you’re intellect as you’ve been of mine.

The difference is, I won’t be. Have a great day.
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From what Transparent wrote up it seems pretty down the line with what he’s said the whole time. I don’t know how I was dismissive of your intellect. But there was no intent. Anyone can do some research and find Bohler’s minimum HRC suggestion is 60.

Have a good night man.
 
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TickTock said:
Doesn't the testing at knife steel nerds show 1 hrc only makes a 15 tcc (total cards cut) difference when tested on CATRA? I can't believe it makes that much of a difference honestly
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Man, I’ve stopped quoting CATRA since the last M390 thread. There’s so much involved in Larrin’s studies that sometimes it’s hard to parse expected TCC and actual TCC. Plus, in that thread most people willingly admitted running it at a higher HRC will result in the billed edge holding capability, but a lot of them were stating corrosion resistance for their reason for buying. Again, this is why Brian’s statements don’t do much in terms of defamation. Some people are looking at specific steels for entirely different reasons.
 
Ryan Stoltman said:
How is disagreeing a burn? The only intellect I’ve questioned is yours. You’re doubling down too.
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Thanks for the clarification. Did you read the site rules? I will direct you too the rule that insulting other members is not allowed.

But if I can expand that your whole white knight gig is to say I'm not a smart guy so ispo facto the lightweight who picked a fight with a heavyweight is right I got bad news for you.
 
Paratrooper06 said:
Brian Kim next week:
“I measured the centering of Spyderco knives and 1 in 12 knives are off-center. Overpriced. Here’s a link to my GoFundMe. Donate to my cause as I will NOT be silenced! I promise I will post receipts of all my legal fees.. no really I will!”
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Man, Spyderco better pay that dude royalties. I think I have one Spyderco out of the 10 or more I own that IS centered. Haha.
 
Danke42 said:
Thanks for the clarification. Did you read the site rules? I will direct you too the rule that insulting other members is not allowed.

But if I can expand that your whole white knight gig is to say I'm not a smart guy so ispo facto the lightweight who picked a fight with a heavyweight is right I got bad news for you.
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If stating your questioning intellect is an insult then the world has gotten softer than I even thought.

White knight? I’m here for civil discourse on a subject that has engulfed my hobby. I don’t know Rick or Transparent, but I see something I think is wrong. And as many people have already said if saying something you don’t like about a maker or what they are doing is picking a fight then we’ve all done it. But most makers don’t throw a hissy fit and try to turn nothing into a fight.
 
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