Rike ripping off a Lundquist design

lieferung

lieferung

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May 24, 2016
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Justin Lundquist shared this on his IG. Rike seems to have copied (or made plans to) one of his original designs, then deleted the post when he messaged them about it. Not sure if they've done anything with it, but Justin wanted to share it so people can be informed before they support them.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BoW_VrQAQzI/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1d8flrssooj4v

For those unfamiliar, Justin Lundquist is the designer of the Kizer Feist and Kizer Wanderer.

Rike responded in kind: https://www.instagram.com/p/BoXX-vXgUoa/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=q4y93kbuc0lg
 
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lieferung said:
Justin Lundquist shared this on his IG. Rike seems to have copied (or made plans to) one of his original designs, then deleted the post when he messaged them about it. Not sure if they've done anything with it, but Justin wanted to share it so people can be informed before they support them.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BoW_VrQAQzI/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1d8flrssooj4v

For those unfamiliar, Justin Lundquist is the designer of the Kizer Feist and Kizer Wanderer.

Rike responded in kind: https://www.instagram.com/p/BoXX-vXgUoa/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=q4y93kbuc0lg
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Pardon, but folk have been copying successful designs.the entire history of knifemaking...
20yrs ago, I would have had trouble thinking of one major custom maker who had not made a Randall copy at one time or another.
All quite apart from base designs copied for literal ages, or Sheffield bowie's, or etc etc...did the griping maker invent the sheath knife or folder? No...

Unless some unique functional feature or mechanism patented AND invented by maker (which excludes Busse opportunist patenting of holes in a guard or ricasso), the entire "he ripped me off!!!" thing is a non-issue...

If the original is better, and people care, they will stick around...if not, blame your skill or fickle market you decided to try to milk...
 
mtngunr said:
Pardon, but folk have been copying successful designs.the entire history of knifemaking...
20yrs ago, I would have had trouble thinking of one major custom maker who had not made a Randall copy at one time or another.
All quite apart from base designs copied for literal ages, or Sheffield bowie's, or etc etc...did the griping maker invent the sheath knife or folder? No...

Unless some unique functional feature or mechanism patented AND invented by maker (which excludes Busse opportunist patenting of holes in a guard or ricasso), the entire "he ripped me off!!!" thing is a non-issue...

If the original is better, and people care, they will stick around...if not, blame your skill or fickle market you decided to try to milk...
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And that makes it all OK? At least some makers give credit due for their inspiration. Those that don’t, suck it. :thumbsdown:
 
ScooterG said:
And that makes it all OK? At least some makers give credit due for their inspiration. Those that don’t, suck it. :thumbsdown:
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So does saying, I got my inspiration from so and so make it ok? Just asking. Also, one was just a sketch with no explanation of the mechanics. So, just the exterior could be deemed a ripoff. This other one is a real functioning creation. Now, did he have a patent on the exterior design? Just trying to determine when the line is crossed.
 
salduchi said:
So does saying, I got my inspiration from so and so make it ok? Just asking. Also, one was just a sketch with no explanation of the mechanics. So, just the exterior could be deemed a ripoff. This other one is a real functioning creation. Now, did he have a patent on the exterior design? Just trying to determine when the line is crossed.
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As I understand it was a whole CAD design and not just some random napkin scribble. Credit where credit is due, but I do agree that lines can be blurry. I would say (as far I can tell without seeing the original design specs from Justin) that it is definitely heavily inspired and they should have just collaborated but it doesn't look like an outright copy to me, but the posts are a bit confusing. I find it kind of weird that Rike would do it in the first place, since they have their own (kinda weird) designs with a lot of elaborate machining. It seemed like they don't have to do that kind of stuff, especially when the head of Rike supposedly is a "knife guy who isn't in it for money and it's just a side hobby for him"
 
b00n said:
As I understand it was a whole CAD design and not just some random napkin scribble. Credit where credit is due, but I do agree that lines can be blurry. I would say (as far I can tell without seeing the original design specs from Justin) that it is definitely heavily inspired and they should have just collaborated but it doesn't look like an outright copy to me, but the posts are a bit confusing. I find it kind of weird that Rike would do it in the first place, since they have their own (kinda weird) designs with a lot of elaborate machining. It seemed like they don't have to do that kind of stuff, especially when the head of Rike supposedly is a "knife guy who isn't in it for money and it's just a side hobby for him"
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So a CAD drawing has more value or veracity than a napkin drawing? Or can a design and or idea have just as much value regardless of the media in which it is presented? Ok, let’s say you give him the credit for the inspiration. Now, does that obligate you to pay him if they are ever produced and sold? Im a little reluctant to believe the Rike guy himself pinched, pilfered or borrowed the design himself. I’m sure he has a fair amount of people working for him that could have seen this design and presented it to him. Just my thoughts
 
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salduchi said:
So a CAD drawing has more value or veracity than a napkin drawing? Or can a design and or idea have just as much value regardless of the media in which it is presented? Ok, let’s say you give him the credit for the inspiration. Now, does that obligate you to pay him if they are ever produced and sold? Im a little reluctant to believe the Rike guy himself pinched, pilfered or borrowed the design himself. I’m sure he has a fair amount of people working for him that could have seen this design and presented it to him. Just my thoughts
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In my book a CAD drawing is a thought out idea, a napkin scribble is a concept. Is stealing some concept worse or better? I don't know, I don't think it's right either way but the lines get blurry. As somebody who considers himself creative (I did 3D Modelling, Texturing, Mapping, drew some Comics and created Avatars for an old Forum) I always gave credit when something inspired me, I never outright copied anything but given that I read books, watch movies and read comics outside influences were always the case, when I consciously had inspiration that was based of or inspired by somebody elses prior work I gave credit. The operative word is "knowingly" which can be a tricky thing cause sometimes you don't consciously consider it.
 
mtngunr said:
Pardon, but folk have been copying successful designs.the entire history of knifemaking...
20yrs ago, I would have had trouble thinking of one major custom maker who had not made a Randall copy at one time or another.
All quite apart from base designs copied for literal ages, or Sheffield bowie's, or etc etc...did the griping maker invent the sheath knife or folder? No...

Unless some unique functional feature or mechanism patented AND invented by maker (which excludes Busse opportunist patenting of holes in a guard or ricasso), the entire "he ripped me off!!!" thing is a non-issue...

If the original is better, and people care, they will stick around...if not, blame your skill or fickle market you decided to try to milk...
Click to expand...
Randall allowed and even encouraged others to use his designs. This guy doesn't. Your argument is invalid. This design, whether only in plans or fully constructed, is his intellectual property. Or are you implying that an architect doesn't own his or her designs because he didn't build it? It's only plans, right?
Cloning, copying, and stealing designs hurts the industry, and those that defend and support it are not received well here.
 
Kbrasmodeler said:
Randall allowed and even encouraged others to use his designs. This guy doesn't. Your argument is invalid. This design, whether only in plans or fully constructed, is his intellectual property. Or are you implying that an architect doesn't own his or her designs because he didn't build it? It's only plans, right?
Cloning, copying, and stealing designs hurts the industry, and those that defend and support it are not received well here.
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My question is, what makes something someone’s intellectual property? Who says that your architect is the only person/architect on the planet that is living or has ever lived that did not draw the same thing or very close to the same thing first? (This is no plan, it’s just a drawing. No size, no measurements no mechanism no material no nothing. Just a drawing.)
 
salduchi said:
My question is, what makes something someone’s intellectual property? Who says that your architect is the only person/architect on the planet that is living or has ever lived that did not draw the same thing first? (This is no plan, it’s just a drawing. No size, no measurements no mechanism no material no nothing. Just a drawing.)
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How about the post where Rike admitted to stealing the design?
 
Kbrasmodeler said:
How about the post where Rike admitted to stealing the design?
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That is not my question. Their is no doubt as to where they got the idea. We’re way past that. I’m heading over to the legal copywrite and patent forums as I believe I have taken this as far a I can here.
 
Intellectual property look it up. Without a patent, trademark, copyright this guy doesn’t own anything. It’s a free drawing for anyone to use. Don’t post your unprotected intellectual ideas or designs unless you don’t care if someone uses them.
 
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salduchi said:
Intellectual property look it up. Without a patent, trademark, copyright this guy doesn’t own anything. It’s a free drawing for anyone to use. Don’t post your unprotected intellectual ideas or designs unless you don’t care if someone uses them.
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At the end of the day, it is true that this is what holds up in a court of law. But, there has always been an unspoken rule in the knife enthusiast world that designers will not blatantly and maliciously copy another. And those that do will be called out in the community. It shows the honor and integrity of our hobby. And those that violate that trust loses the business of the community

EDIT: note that i say blatantly and maliciously. There are only so many ways for a knife to be designed and there will be similarities or aspects of knife design that are used to a reasonable extent
 
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Dfunk1210 said:
At the end of the day, it is true that this is what holds up in a court of law. But, there has always been an unspoken rule in the knife enthusiast world that designers will not blatantly and maliciously copy another. And those that do will be called out in the community. It shows the honor and integrity of our hobby. And those that violate that trust loses the business of the community

EDIT: note that i say blatantly and maliciously. There are only so many ways for a knife to be designed and there will be similarities or aspects of knife design that are used to a reasonable extent
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Blatantly and Maliciously...I see no evidence of malice. Therefore, since you use the word “and” it means you condone this. Did Lundquist or whatever his name is want the blade to come out the side? Which side? Did he intend for it to be an otf maybe? His drawing does not depict that. Did he intend it to be a necklace knife like Rike? Probably not. Did he intended to be a 3-4” inch blade? I dunno as their are no specs. Now, what if Asheville Steel comes around and says, screw both these jerkoffs as the the basic design idea originated with us? I’m just using this blade as an example I’m sure I can find others. Do you understand my point?
 
Some of you guys really don’t understand that the Chinese don’t have a concept of IP.
That is their culture.
 
willc said:
Some of you guys really don’t understand that the Chinese don’t have a concept of IP.
That is their culture.
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That’s surely seems to be the case. It appears that everything is fair game to those guys.
 
I'm Chinese by race. Actually, I'm Singaporean. I've never lived in China and I don't feel anything for China. I certainly don't think of it as my motherland. Singapore is my home. Not China. With that in mind, I'm just speculating here. As someone who is Chinese only by biological race, I cannot claim to truly understand how a truly Chinese person thinks.

That said, in Singapore, many of the older generation of Chinese are still very much traditionally Chinese, and for them, it's all about dollars and cents. If they can do it without legal trouble and earn from it, they will do it. You can try to debate with them about copying being unethical and morally wrong, but you'll probably get a more meaningful response from a turtle. I can't say for certain that this specific demographic of Singaporean-Chinese are reflective of mainland Chinese, but I'd guess that they are because they have a loyalty to China that I lack.

Only real way to hit home in this regard is to do our very best to ensure these copies do not sell.

*Not speaking about this exact knife / copy, I don't know the full story but all I can say regarding Rike's response is Yikes. With a response like that, they're not getting a single cent out of me.
 
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