RMJ Tactical Shrike Out Of Its Element.....or is it?

[Mistwalker]

Can you imagine needing to employ that tool in a battlezone? CQC has a whole new name at that point.

TF

Actually I can, it's no different than firing a round, lobbing a grenade, or dropping a bomb. Hell I can look back on my own life to a few times. One night in particular when I was 16 and living on the streets and woke in the darkness to find my feet held down, being held by the hair of the head, and my right arm pinned under a knee...I think, and being repeatedly struck in the face. The person at my feet was trying to steal my boots...my only shoes. I was in St. Louis and it was January. Luckily they hadn't found my left hand yet as I was under several blankets and it was under the old blanket I was using for a pillow... and they didn't know that under that "pillow" was a razor sharp Old Hickory paring knife. Had I something like this hawk the fight would have ended a bit sooner. Of course that wasn't feasible here, but there are completely different rules in a combat zone. You can become engaged in CQC in more than one way. But to answer your question in the context I think you meant it... I see striking someone with this tool as no more...really nowhere near as... vicious than hitting them with bullets or exploding ordnance.... It's just more up-close and personal.

 

[stanley_white]

A tomahawk can be used for CQC however one must remember the amount of room needed to appropriately swing said tomahawk. Low ceilings may restrict how much force can be generated for a strike.

A tomahawk can be used as a breaching tool quite effectively. One of my friends who has quite a few combat deployments under his belt has a tomahawk that he has used effectively for breaching multiple times.

Mistwalker's review was cool to me because it took something originally designed for use in a tactical context and used it in a W&SS context -- good job.

 

[Mistwalker]

A tomahawk can be used for CQC however one must remember the amount of room needed to appropriately swing said tomahawk. Low ceilings may restrict how much force can be generated for a strike.

A tomahawk can be used as a breaching tool quite effectively. One of my friends who has quite a few combat deployments under his belt has a tomahawk that he has used effectively for breaching multiple times.

Mistwalker's review was cool to me because it took something originally designed for use in a tactical context and used it in a W&SS context -- good job.

Thanks Stanley, glad you enjoyed the thread. The whole point was to be able to exploit certain characteristics of a combative tool and put them less combative tasks.

The swinging-room issue is one of the primary reasons Ryan, who is a U.S. Marine, developed the shorter kestrel. He maintains contact with his customers, is constantly researching, and makes every effort to meet the needs of the guys carrying them in the field. So there are now several different configurations available depending on specific needs and A.O.'s. The Kestrel is also less a breaching tool and more designed for cutting organic materials like wood and bamboo.


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[Bushman5]

military and tactical tools DEFINITELY are at home in the woods. Anything military/tactical is built tough, built for abuse. Civvie gear tends to be on the lesser side of tough, built for occasional users.

 

[Mistwalker]

military and tactical tools DEFINITELY are at home in the woods. Anything military/tactical is built tough, built for abuse. Civvie gear tends to be on the lesser side of tough, built for occasional users.

That's a variation of my own philosophy that if you want something that will last buy one that was built with the intentions of long term hard use. I first came to that conclusion with carpentry tools (I'm a carpenter) and then it spilled into lawn tools...buy one that was designed for commercial use and it will last the average home owner several years. Later that expanded to my pots and pans, and then my stove...I love to cook. Then I looked around and realized that it had always applied to my knives and gear, I just hadn't realized it in those terms.

 

[Mistwalker]

Wow, they're not inexpensive, that's for sure. I would really like one to test out, but it doesn't seem excel at chopping, and I don't do too much breaching. How would you stack it against a dedicated chopper for wood processing? Why were they featured on Modern Marvels (the company that is)?

No, they're not inexpensive, but a lot goes into them.

As I said in the video, this hawk isn't exactly designed to chop wood, but it does chop wood better than the average "chopper" would tear through a masonry wall.

Looking at the history of tomahawks I guess they are a modern marvel. Take an early...say 16th or 18th century hawk and make a door in a brick wall.

 

[ROCK6]

To Mistwalker's defense, RMJ's tomahawks are designed for tough use in urban environments. Breaching doors, windows, ripping out probable caches, punching through mud/clay walls for shoot-holes and cutting into electrical wires is always a possibility. Your normal tools wouldn't be used to cut through bricks, but I've used a specially designed knife to dig out and cut wire and used for dismantling sand-bagged bunkers. The bonus is that it's still a sharpened edge that can do pretty well in wooded outdoors use.

ROCK6

 

[Moving Target]

Good review!

I have been eyeballing these 'hawks for a while now but have been hesitant to drop the cash without being able to handle one first.

Let me say that I have held a Kestrel, and I don't doubt its usefulness as a CQB tool. However, in my opinion, it is almost too small to be the perfect all-around field tool/weapon.

The Shrike, at like 18 inches, is already a small-ish 'hawk and a better compromise over the longer, heavier Talon. I don't believe the size is too big to swing or use indoors effectively - I have other modern 'hawks in this size range, but I'm betting the Shrike handles better because of the weight being distributed along the haft differently (less head-heavy than traditional 'hawks).

A couple questions I still have:

Does the prominent sharpened hook of the beard prevent you from "choking up" under the head for close work or small tasks?

Unlike the Talon and Kestrel, there appears to be a seam at the junction of the composite handle and the haft that swells out between the two. How solid is this "gap" and do you forsee any weakness developing there through heavy use?

Thanks again for the solid review. I have a Vec 'hawk in the works (any day now I hope) so I will probably hold off on a Shrike for the time being, but it's good to see someone is out there putting it to work on more than car hoods and windshields.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

A tomahawk can be used for CQC however one must remember the amount of room needed to appropriately swing said tomahawk. Low ceilings may restrict how much force can be generated for a strike.

Not really, there's more than one way to employ a hawk.

If it's extremely close, you choke up nearer to the head, in the case of this model, right at the edge of the composite grip area (to avoid the sharpened beard hitting your own body).

A sort of punching strike will drag the edge along the throat, face, etc. Only a short swing (choked up) is required to drive the spike into the armpit, groin, or down between the collar bones (severing several arteries and nerve complexes, and giving you a good grip to pull the guy off his feet. Once he's on the ground, you now have room to swing for a coup de gras). Likewise, a short sideways swing can get the spike between ribs.

Also, even close in you want reach to be able to hook the beard around the back of the knee, elbows, the other guy's weapon, etc. The sharpened beard and pointed heel make for severing tendons and blood vessels in limbs.

The only real weakness in these tactical type tomahawks for woods use is that they never extend the grip area up to the base of the head, so that you could choke up tight and use the bit in a more knifelike function.

But then, that's why you carry a knife. . .

 

[Mistwalker]

Good review!

I have been eyeballing these 'hawks for a while now but have been hesitant to drop the cash without being able to handle one first.

Let me say that I have held a Kestrel, and I don't doubt its usefulness as a CQB tool. However, in my opinion, it is almost too small to be the perfect all-around field tool/weapon.

The Shrike, at like 18 inches, is already a small-ish 'hawk and a better compromise over the longer, heavier Talon. I don't believe the size is too big to swing or use indoors effectively - I have other modern 'hawks in this size range, but I'm betting the Shrike handles better because of the weight being distributed along the haft differently (less head-heavy than traditional 'hawks).

A couple questions I still have:

Does the prominent sharpened hook of the beard prevent you from "choking up" under the head for close work or small tasks?

Unlike the Talon and Kestrel, there appears to be a seam at the junction of the composite handle and the haft that swells out between the two. How solid is this "gap" and do you forsee any weakness developing there through heavy use?

Thanks again for the solid review. I have a Vec 'hawk in the works (any day now I hope) so I will probably hold off on a Shrike for the time being, but it's good to see someone is out there putting it to work on more than car hoods and windshields.

Thanks man, glad you liked the post.

I just took some more pics that should answer some of you questions. I have been chopping on different things with this Shrike for a while and in my opinion I see no weaknesses at all yet, and no gap at all.

Car doors, windshields, and windows are actually part of the reasons behind the design but give me woods and a sharp piece of steel and I will always find other applications

The kestrel was partially designed for some of our men wearing slightly different "uniforms"

My daughter isn't feeling well and needs my attention at the moment but I'll get the pics up in a little while.


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[Mistwalker]

A couple questions I still have:

Does the prominent sharpened hook of the beard prevent you from "choking up" under the head for close work or small tasks?

Unlike the Talon and Kestrel, there appears to be a seam at the junction of the composite handle and the haft that swells out between the two. How solid is this "gap" and do you forsee any weakness developing there through heavy use?

Thanks again for the solid review. I have a Vec 'hawk in the works (any day now I hope) so I will probably hold off on a Shrike for the time being, but it's good to see someone is out there putting it to work on more than car hoods and windshields.

 

[Moving Target]

Excellent shots! Answered my questions perfectly. Thanks for the quick response!

MT

 

[jw2n]

I had looked at these before, and saw a lot of potential. Before I continue this post, I want to point out that the tools I carry very traditional. I carry a GB or Reeves hatchet. The reason I state this is to demonstrate that I normally do not carry what would be considered military, or tactical, tools (with the exception of some of my knives). However, I can easily see this hawk as a useful item. I am retired from the Army, in which I spent 26 years. The CQC aside, this hawk would be used for dozens of mundane chores that are actually hard on equipment. Opening ammo crates, building improvised hides, improving fighting positions, and so on. So, from a GIs perspective, it would serve as an all around, indestructable "tool".

The second reason I have looked at this is due to the fact that I find myself existing in a mixed urban and rural environment. I am primarily set up to operate in a woods environment. My tools could handle urban work, but not as well as an item like this would. I have given thought recently towards items that bridge the variations found in the two environments.

 

[Mistwalker]

Excellent shots! Answered my questions perfectly. Thanks for the quick response!

MT

No problem man, glad those shots worked for you. I had meant to include such shots to start with...I just got distracted by the season and a four year old .

..... I find myself existing in a mixed urban and rural environment. I am primarily set up to operate in a woods environment. My tools could handle urban work, but not as well as an item like this would. I have given thought recently towards items that bridge the variations found in the two environments.

I know exactly where you are coming from with this. I am surrounded by woods...I can walk out my back door and walk for miles only crossing one paved road...but I am very close to a sprawling metropolitan area. Where I live was considered "out in the county" when I was a kid, now it's inside the city limits.

 

[Mistwalker]

Took the Shrike on a winter hike today, first hike of 2010. The temp was about 17F this morning when I left the house just about sunrise.


I used the Shrike to hack into a few fatwood stumps,

and to chop into frozen ground for wild onions.

and to chop through the ice on a frozen pond to get to some water.

 

[lukeeson111]

THis post is very informative mistwalker keep up the good work...I would enjoy seeing more photos of it in use.

 

[Mistwalker]

THis post is very informative mistwalker keep up the good work...I would enjoy seeing more photos of it in use.

Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it. No worries there is still much more to do. I really enjoyed getting the above pics this morning...even if it was 17 degrees. I did some more fire starting with a firesteel shortly after chopping through that ice and it took me a couple of strikes to realize there was ice built up on the primary edge.

 

[Bushman5]

Mist, how does it throw?

 

[DH1]

I own four 'hawks; a Cold Steel Vietnam hawk, a HB Forge small hawk, a ATV VTAC hawk and a Ranger Knives Renegade hawk... and the RMJ hawks still look to be what I'm looking for in both outdoors and self defense use.

Great thread Mistwalker:thumbup:

 

[Mistwalker]

Mist, how does it throw?

I understand that is a basic thought for most people but personally I have a "thing" for not throwing my tools or weapons in most cases, rather keep it in hand. Besides that the edge geometry on this particular model is not really made for sticking like that and mainly I am studying it from a non-combative "survival" perspective at the moment. I may re profile the edge at some point but at the moment that would be counter productive for me.

I own four 'hawks; a Cold Steel Vietnam hawk, a HB Forge small hawk, a ATV VTAC hawk and a Ranger Knives Renegade hawk... and the RMJ hawks still look to be what I'm looking for in both outdoors and self defense use.

Great thread Mistwalker:thumbup:

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it I definitely like this one a lot better than the old Vietnam era hawk I used to have.