Room for improvement?

COLLECTIVE DIVERSITY
the cornerstone of any successful forum

I feel that if a new knifemaker or collector asks for critique, encouragement, advice, it is fine to offer,
its all in the way that we deliver this constructive critique that makes all the difference.

I see a plethora of knives that are posted here that are not my cup of tea but still enjoy looking at all the trends developing and encourage all to share.
I see no valid reason to disembowel the poor guy that is just kindly asking for advice or just sharing his latest purchase.

(I am Dan Favano and I approve this message)
 
The Virginian said:
This forum is fine.

I wish Les could still post here, but it isn't my site and I don't make the rules.

"There will always be oil and vinegar when it comes to people but thats life everywhere and especially on Internet forums" = best comment on this thread (IMO).

The comments on this thread where someone wishes other folks would be or do this or that are nonsense. People are who they are. Deal with it. Worry more about yourself and less about others.
Click to expand...

Thanks buddy

And I also agree whole heartidly with your comment
 
Lorien said:
I totally understand what you're saying, and agree. But to play devil's advocate I see two benefits of this;
-folks who do this are compelled to buy a higher priced membership, which helps keep BF afloat w/o ads everywhere
-especially in the case of dealers, it exposes forumites to 'what's hot', what's selling etc.

I don't know if I like the arrangement of organizing the sale of knives directly through this forum. Not sure if that's what we're talking about here, but there is certainly more of that now than in the past, so it's obviously somewhat acceptable.

As for arguments and squabbling, there is certainly much less of that than in the past. But it seems to have come at the cost of less participation and discussion. How do we encourage the participation and discussion that we all appreciate, while at the same time encourage new members to participate more without having to have 'a thick skin'?
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Well if that is what you are talking about Ill flat out tell ya I am on here to promote the makers that I call friends and like to work with simple as that.

I have payed the freight to do so and long as I am not breaking rules I will do so as much as I want

Every time someone does a WIP or even shows a knife he is promoting that makers work

This whole thread has something to do with Stevens comments on the two art knives, that btw I thought where very well done

Somebody spit out what's up if I wanna go around in circles I can sit down with my three daughters and ask them who left the milk out :)
 
If someone posts a knife and asks for constructive criticism then when someone says
that the grind lines are poorly done and the finish is rough, etc., the maker needs
to listen and look and not take it personally. The advice is given as asked for. New
makers who are justifyably proud of their work may feel slammed but if you don't know
what needs work, you'll never improve.

Some of my early stuff, which I was really positive about, was actually crap and I needed
to be told that so I could improve. When 4 mastersmiths tell you that your work just
isn't acceptable, it's bitter to hear. But if you want to improve, you've got to hear it.

Bill
 
There are 61 people in this room as I post and only 14 are members.
Lorien, Kohai999, RogerP, JParanee, SharpByCoop,sheathmaker, Kevin Jones, The Virginian, betzner, Avigil, Bruce Bump and all the other regulars should be proud.
You guys are the reason 61 people are here Wednesday at noon.
If it aint broke....

Much Respect from Texas.
 
JParanee said:
This whole thread has something to do with Stevens comments on the two art knives, that btw I thought where very well done

Somebody spit out what's up if I wanna go around in circles I can sit down with my three daughters and ask them who left the milk out :)
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Joe, there's nothing up. I brought up for discussion how could this forum be more than it is, because I personally feel that it isn't currently reaching its potential. The actual topic here is, what is this forum's potential? Where are its limitations? How can identified limitations be overcome? etc...

Just about every person who's posted in this thread so far has at some time in the past noted limits that they see in this forum and some great points have been raised here already.

This is a discussion for the collective. Please believe me when I tell you that nobody left the milk out. This is not about laying blame or passing judgement on people's individual actions. I thought I had made that pretty clear at the outset, and I do not understand why individual's names are being brought up here. This topic is not about individuals, it's about a forum of individuals. Are there ways to concurrently increase quality of content, the number of individuals, and their willingness to contribute their time for the betterment of the forum?
 
Besides W.I.P's, great images showing greater knives, and community building, let's face it:

Everyone wants to watch a good fight. LOL! THe internet is rampant in this regard, as the disconnect and anonymity provide this.

That said: At the other end of every keyboard is a human being. We need to honor our community with respect for each other. I do.

On the net: HOW you voice your opinion has more traction than the opinion itself. (In the broadest sense.)

##############

There was spirited and valid discussion about the merits of engraving on an art-styled knife. I thought about this and concocted a little graph:

orig.jpg


The area of most concerns and often volatility is the grey area. That's where the fun begins! :eek: We leave the area to the left as mostly acceptable.

I make a great living in this gray area. But, I have to acknowledge the drawbacks.

Good thread.

Coop
 
I was going to be a wall flower and just soak up the discussion. I realized that if everyone sat in hiding benefiting from other people who are not afraid or unwilling to comment this place would die. I have learned most of what I know about knife making here on the forums, it has given me access to people that have helped me learn the rest of what I know.

I feel the biggest potential for me is the BF "Hive Mind" where some of the worlds greatest Collectors and Makers are found. I have been on the receiving end of some critiques and criticism, and it is hard to take sometimes. I think that 90% of the hurt feelings come from the internet being a flat medium and it is very difficult to get a feel for the "Spirit" that someone is speaking in. I have been grateful in the past for the smiley faces or Winks to help decipher when someone is being sarcastic. Just recently Coop used one in what I felt was an obvious case of joking, but the original poster got bent out of shape. Some people refuse to use the faces and I understand that too.

I try not to be a Negative person, so I always try to find something to compliment about a knife, then talk about the bad things. It is not hard to find at least one thing to like in a knife or a maker. One thing that limits this place IMO is... a new maker will put up his work for critique and someone comes down hard on it. That info will be there forever, 10 years down the road the new maker has made a name for himself and someone searches for info because they may be considering purchasing one of his blades and finds statements like: "your grinds are completely off, and need to be more crisp" the "the thumb ramp throws the flow out of whack" "I hate jimping on any knife" They may reconsider buying from that maker.

Just a thought, and I don't know if it is even possible... Is there a way to have Collectors and Makers (who have paid for their status) have access to a private forum where knives can be critiqued freely away from the masses view? This is not an attempt to hide flaws or crappy work, I feel it would make for an atmosphere where people can talk freely and not be afraid it will come back to bite them as they improve down the road.

I always find it interesting that collectors that have purchased a high end knife (An Investment) don't put up photos of that knife for critique or actually post a thread saying "I just bought a knife from <INSERT AWESOME MAKERS NAME HERE> and was surprised to find the fit off a little bit off and the weight / balance not where I would like it" Because they hurt their ability to sell it for what they paid down the road. But they are more than happy to nit pick new makers or less know makers work

sorry in advance for the wall of text and poor punctuation. :rolleyes:
Ryan Weeks
 
RyanW said:
I always find it interesting that collectors that have purchased a high end knife (An Investment) don't put up photos of that knife for critique or actually post a thread saying "I just bought a knife from <BURT FOSTER> and was surprised to find the fit off a little bit off and the weight / balance not where I would like it" Because they hurt their ability to sell it for what they paid down the road. But they are more than happy to nit pick new makers or less know makers work
Click to expand...

An example-

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Burt-Foster-Knife?highlight=burt+foster+2011

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Like I said

I think this place runs pretty smooth compared to most

I believe this is the largest custom knife forum in the world

For a place that is this diverse I think it is a wonderful melting pot

As for maker posting there work here that don't like criticism. Well there is shop talk and other forums for that

I personally don't post negative comments because frankly I don't care. If I see a knife that is very good but has something that keeps it from being great I might say something but I have to like the knife to even want to make a comment then it is only one mans opinion

As for makers that don't want a history of comments about there work on the Internet that goes both ways good and bad and my only suggestion is if it worries them so not to post or keep it in shop talk



Lorien you know I like and respect the hell out of you but you freely admitted that someone's comments prompted this thread so all I am asking is what are your thoughts ? I am sure they will be well received
 
Joe said, "I think this place runs pretty smooth compared to most

I believe this is the largest custom knife forum in the world

For a place that is this diverse I think it is a wonderful melting pot

As for maker posting there work here that don't like criticism. Well there is shop talk and other forums for that

I personally don't post negative comments because frankly I don't care. If I see a knife that is very good but has something that keeps it from being great I might say something but I have to like the knife to even want to make a comment then it is only one mans opinion

As for makers that don't want a history of comments about there work on the Internet that goes both ways good and bad and my only suggestion is if it worries them so not to post or keep it in shop talk"

I'll agree with all of that. And like others here it don't seem broke to me.

Bill
 
I like this forum. Been here for a while now. Over the years my fellow BFC members have taught me a lot, at times entertained me, and I've made a few good friends along the way. The forum has its imperfections and it has changed a bit over the years, as all things do, but let's not forget that all of these things are but a reflection of the people that comprise this community. And those of us who count ourselves a part of this community right now are each trying to make the most of our time here, and that's what keeps this place going.

A few people have already talked a bit about diversity and that's one thing that I'd like to emphasize here as well. Diversity allows us to broaden our perspectives; to see, learn, and enjoy new things that we might otherwise have missed. This forum at times tends to have an ABS tilt, which is fine with me, but I also enjoy seeing what's new in the tactical genre, the art knife world, and the international knifemaking community. I do find myself extremely grateful for the contributions of Coop and a few others who offer us a glimpse into other parts of the knife world, but I would love to see more participation from the outskirts of our seemingly Arkansas-centric community.

But when a skilled maker of tactical knives posts a detailed WIP, or a Brazilian maker puts forth the effort to overcome a language barrier to post his work here and receives only a few comments, he might not come back. And that's our loss. So, for my part, I will try a bit harder to encourage these participants as much as I can in the hopes that they feel a bit more welcome here and help richen our community for it.

Beyond that, I will continue to enjoy my readings, viewings, and conversations here and accept the occasional outbursts of douchebaggery that come along with it :)
 
SharpByCoop said:
. . .

orig.jpg


The area of most concerns and often volatility is the grey area. That's where the fun begins! :eek: We leave the area to the left as mostly acceptable.

. . .

Coop
Click to expand...


Maybe that is because those who think that knives in the red area below are boring and suck do not feel compelled to piss on every thread where a knife in that category is posted up here.

1zdydqa.jpg


I hope I will not get into a copyright infringement problem for that. ;) :D

BTW, nice post, Coop!
 
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JParanee said:
Lorien you know I like and respect the hell out of you but you freely admitted that someone's comments prompted this thread so all I am asking is what are your thoughts ? I am sure they will be well received
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Joe, first of all thank you very much my friend, you are too kind. :)

There was no specific comment by any one individual that prompted this thread. I had a very general discussion with someone, (no particular individuals were discussed by the way- I tend to avoid talking about other people) that was prompted by a specific but general concern, and it was the general discussion we had which prompted the thread. Our discussion had a lot to do with the idea of making this forum even more global in nature than it currently is.

That all might be moot, however, as it's been pointed out that there is a growing global interest in this forum, as evidenced by the involvement of an increasing number of makers and collectors located beyond N. America who are now posting here. This is a VERY good thing that ought to be recognized and encouraged, (not that I'm saying it's not).

Now, I think that some people touched on some of the limitations here vis a vis criticism vs. critique and when and how to apply either. That topic has been ongoing for a great many years and it was in the hopes of broadening the discussion that the thread was started. That is only one aspect of what occurs in this forum, and like most of you, I share the feeling that things are working well from that perspective. As for moderation, again, that's been thoroughly discussed and I think the general consensus here is that everything is working fine the way it is.

But things can always work better. I'm sorry I don't have any specific ideas as to how, but that's why I started the thread- to stimulate ideas on how our collective can engage in conversations which lead to specific ideas on how to evolve our little piece of the world wide web.
 
STeven, I figured you had criticized Knives that you have in your collection. Thanks for the link.

I agree with Joe and others. That History is just that, it is always nice to grow and improve. I respect pretty much everyone in these forums and have learned from the "Atta Boys" and the "Better luck next time". Looking back at my earlier knives I (and some not too long ago) I can see with much more clarity what was wrong with them now. I just have to remember that, just because STeven says it is so, doesn't mean it is right. Having said that I shouldn't look for STeven to buy one of my knives if I don't listen.
 
I think the viewpoint, as expressed here, that I most agree with is Joe's. Though I hate to give him any kinda credit.:D:D
 
RyanW said:
.... just have to remember that, just because STeven says it is so, doesn't mean it is right. Having said that I shouldn't look for STeven to buy one of my knives if I don't listen.
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Ryan....if I have an opinion, it is just that.

My observations may work for you, or not. They are offered in the hopes that you will consider them, not accept them as a Mandate From He Who Must Be Obeyed. I don't remotely take myself that seriously, and hope that no one else does.

That said...I make the effort....my good friend Joe and a LOT of other Forumites say nothing when they see something that could CLEARLY benefit from a suggestion...and that is just lazy...it is also their option.

John White does not make knives that interest me in general because many of the details he focuses on are not my cup of tea. Neither one of us is hurting because of it, and AFAIK, not a lot of harsh words have passed because John doesn't make knives that I like...that is the way life is, there is not a whole lot of benefit of my commenting on John's knives....I try to keep the constructive comments focused on those who can benefit from it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I always appreciate your comments STeven. And have tried to follow many of your suggestions on my and others knives!

Joe I used to spend most of my time in Shop Talk, it is a train wreck most of the time IMO.
 
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