Rust-proof Steels -- H1 vs. X15 T.N.

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glen200300

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Jan 25, 2006
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Check out this thread from the Benchmade forum archive:

http://benchmadeforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/368106573/m/252108283


The topic:

X15 T.N. vs H1 Steel on Dive Knife


Some highlights:

"...BM initially started with H1 and then switched to X15 T.N. Stainless. What is it and why did they do it[?]"

a response,

"The main reason for the switch [from H1 to X15 T.N.] was edge retention.
True, H-1 is a bit more corrosion resistant than X-15 but according to tests done by CATRA in England X-15 has nearly twice the edge retention of H-1 (For reference, X-15 has about 2/3 the edge retention of our 440C).
Response from users showed us that the substantial increase in edge retention is more important to our typical customer than the increased corrosion resistance."


also this response,


"I am not too happy with the rust resistance of x15. I bought a H2O recently as my dive knife. Several rust spots appeared on the blade as soon as I surfaced after a 45 mins dive. I immediately rinsed the knife with fresh water but rust still formed on the handle after a couple of days. The rust looks particularly ugry against the yellow coloured handle. I do not expect saltwater steel to be totally rust free but the x15 does not appear to be no better than the other cheaper dive knives. The edge of the blade is good. I hope BM will try titanium."


one person asked if H1 could rust as well - here's a response,


"Our 100SH2O knives [H1 version] live in the toughest environment for knives - out in the sea spray, then back to the boat house.
Not all the guys give them a rinse when they wash the boat down.
I did discover some rust weeping out at the screws. I removed the scales, rubbed the tang down with Marine Tuff Cloth and reassembled. They have stayed rust-free since, over a period of quite a few months."



So it appears that X15 T.N.'s corrosion resistance is inferior. It also appears that H1 can rust as well, contrary to claims of its 100% corrosion resistance...
 
glen200300 said:
It also appears that H1 can rust as well, contrary to claims of its 100% corrosion resistance...
Click to expand...

That's not my experience - I've deliberately left my H1 Spyderco Pacific Salt wet and salty for days without a hint of rust apart from a slight white powdery discoloration. As far as I can tell it can't be rusted. Maybe it was the screws?
 
Ming65 said:
Maybe it was the screws?
Click to expand...

I thought this as well...

I also wonder if there's a difference between Spyderco's H1 and Benchmade's -- different source, QC or treatment that could possibly affect its corrosion resistance?
 
Yeah I have never heard and H1 blade actually blade rusting. I personally, haven't put mine to the test but it does have pretty good edge retention.
 
H-1 will not rust in any reasonable amount of time. Perhaps extended saturation in a high concentration saline solution for a year or more.

Under NORMAL use, it will never rust.

Edge retention is also irrelevant, as H-1 work hardens, and gains edge retention. Not sure how high it goes though.

It's also a hell of a lot cheaper than X-15.
 
I
did discover some rust weeping out at the screws.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet that the screws were not H-1.
I don't think that you can get H-1 to rust that easily.

Edge retention is also irrelevant...
Click to expand...

I would'nt say that edge-retention is totally irrelevant, but I will say this:
Regardless of blade-steel, if you use it, you're going to have to sharpen it sooner or later.
H-1 has the advantage of being rust-proof AND being rather easy to sharpen.
And it obtains a very keen edge indeed.
 
The only flaw in the Salt is the FRN handle that isn't nearly as good as the rest of the package.
 
I hear that as you sharpen H1 the harder it gets. Some reports get as high as RC64 when sharpened a lot! Wow, this must be awonder steel! How true is this??
 
dannyvi said:
I hear that as you sharpen H1 the harder it gets. Some reports get as high as RC64 when sharpened a lot! Wow, this must be awonder steel! How true is this??
Click to expand...
According to a Spyderco representative that posted on this subject in the Spyderco forum not too long ago, it's completely true. It gets even higher than that on the serrated blades too.

I would find the exact post for you, but you can't search H1 because it's too short, and I don't remember anything else about the title of the thread.
 
hmmm... so most think that the screws probably weren't made of H1. This seems like a sizable oversight.

Also if the edge retention issue is irrelevant, what do you think prompted the switch to X15 T.N. ?
 
J85909266 said:
According to a Spyderco representative that posted on this subject in the Spyderco forum not too long ago, it's completely true. It gets even higher than that on the serrated blades too.

I would find the exact post for you, but you can't search H1 because it's too short, and I don't remember anything else about the title of the thread.
Click to expand...

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19120&page=2&pp=15&highlight=hardness

Page #2 Post #19

Here is the relevant quote.

TazKristi said:
H1 is a precipitation-hardened alloy. And yes, it is also work-hardened. Meaning that anything that you do that causes heat through friction will harden the steel further; it’s also important to note that tests have shown that it does not become brittle. The work-hardened properties of H1 have been proven by analysis independently performed by Crucible Specialty Metals. It is this that explains why an H1 blade with a SpyderEdge has better edge retention than it's PlainEdge counterpart. In the end, the analysis from Crucible found the Rc at the spine was 58, however at the edge it had increased in both the PlainEdge (to 65 Rc) and the SpyderEdge (to 68 Rc).
Click to expand...

It's one of those steels you'll want to use, without fear of having to worry about how hard sharpening it will be;)
 
glen200300 said:
hmmm... so most think that the screws probably weren't made of H1. This seems like a sizable oversight.

Also if the edge retention issue is irrelevant, what do you think prompted the switch to X15 T.N. ?
Click to expand...

Well, maybe irrelevant is a bad choice of words. If the edge retention increases with use, than the use of X-15 because of edge retention alone, is a bad choice. I'd like to see tests of work hardened H-1 vs. X-15 to really get a feel for the two.
 
Yeah, but edge retention is the reason originally quoted on the Benchmade forum - at the expense of corrosion resistance.

Something doesn't add up here - especially if smcfalls13 is correct and X15 is a lot more expensive (I don't think the retail price for the knife changed).

I'm guessing something was wrong with the original H1 run, bad HT maybe.
Or there might have been a problem with their supplier... and the "even better X15" statements are just marketing BS.


Both are still available online, but I don't know if I want the H1 version or the knife at all anymore...
 
Ming65 said:
That's not my experience - I've deliberately left my H1 Spyderco Pacific Salt wet and salty for days without a hint of rust apart from a slight white powdery discoloration. As far as I can tell it can't be rusted. Maybe it was the screws?
Click to expand...

I made the original post that highlighted the rust on our boat knives.

My original thought was that it would be the screws rusting, but when I disassembled the knife I found that it was from the tang. The screws were completely clean.

The salt water was trapped under the scales and over a period of months the tang started to rust.
After I treated the tang with marine tuff cloth and reassembled the knives there has been no reoccurance - but H1 can rust.

I think the move from H1 to X15 TN was a bad idea. For us rust resistance is much more important that edge retention.
 
Steven Andrews said:
I made the original post that highlighted the rust on our boat knives.

My original thought was that it would be the screws rusting, but when I disassembled the knife I found that it was from the tang. The screws were completely clean.

The salt water was trapped under the scales and over a period of months the tang started to rust.
After I treated the tang with marine tuff cloth and reassembled the knives there has been no reoccurance - but H1 can rust.

I think the move from H1 to X15 TN was a bad idea. For us rust resistance is much more important that edge retention.
Click to expand...

Huh, there you go, I'll take your word for it Stephen. I do seem to remember you mentioning that in a review somewhere.

IWB in my board shorts during summer has to be one of the most toxic, corrosive, sweaty environments possible:barf: , and that's where my P-Salt spends most of it's time - but I guess it does get rinsed off from time to time. Still my P-Salt is as maintenance free as it get's for my uses.

I wonder who these 'users' were who preferred X15 TN for it's edge holding? - what kind of sample and what kind of use etc? I read the original thread and didn't see any specific reference made
 
The Salts have the advantage that there isn't really anywhere for salt water to get trapped for a long period, and by long I mean months.

The Pacific Salt is my knife of choice when I'm out in the boat.
 
Unfortunately, when it comes to the properties that a given metal exhibits. the end line user may actually value something else.

I'm wondering how many buyers of highly rust resistant knives actually value edge retention higher?

If a firm gets a sufficient number of comments in this strain, they may change the choice of metal.
 
I've seen the 'soaking the H1 in salt water for 3-months' threads. But I'm wondering about the lack of oxygen in these tests. Regularly exposed to salt water then exposed to the air would be more likely to produce rust IMO (as Steven did).

From this day forth, in the interests of furthering mankinds essential knowledge of steel, I resolve to never clean the salt water, sweat and grime off my P-Salt. Results to follow.
 
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