Rust-proof Steels -- H1 vs. X15 T.N.

From this day forth, in the interests of furthering mankinds essential knowledge of steel, I resolve to never clean the salt water, sweat and grime off my P-Salt. Results to follow.
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Ming, I hope you're not going to fillet fish with that Pacific Salt and not clean it!:barf:

:D :D :D

I'll be looking forward to the results.

Cheers,
Allen.
 
From Orthogonal1:

I'm wondering how many buyers of highly rust resistant knives actually value edge retention higher?
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Good question.
Every steel is a compromise in one aspect or another.

What I really want does not exist:
A blade-steel that never dulls, has a razor edge, and is impervious to all manner of wear and tear and corrosion.

So, I have to settle for what's available.
And I need a blade that can get very sharp, keep that sharpness for a respectable amount of useage, resist chipping, and is easy to sharpen when it does get dull.
And if it also happens to be rust resistant too, then that's just icing on the cake.
IMO, H-1 has all of that.

I don't mind sharpening my knives when they get dull, but I don't one that is a pain in the butt to sharpen.
And I'm a bit lazy when it comes to rust-prevention too.
I don't want to be constantly wiping down my knife and oiling my knife.
And I live in the Carolinas where it is rather humid for much of the year, and I love to spend time at the lake and at the beach.
So for myself, H-1 is a really nice compromise for an EDC folder.

Now, if Spyderco would make a Pacific Salt with a titanium handle....the Titanium Salt!:eek:

Allen.
 
I gave a very good friend in the landscaping business one of my Salt 1 knives with the full serrations. He uses it for trimming and even for jobs I don't want to know about like digging in the dirt to transplant small plants. He has told me that on more than one occasion he has left the knife out all night and on two of those occasions it was left sitting in pine mulch (very acidic) when it rained. It has yet to show even so much as anything more than surface scratches from use. No rust whatsoever.

Who ever wrote that about H1 rusting is mistaken. It will not rust period.

STR
 
That is my new carry knife currently. Its a Chris Reeve Small Sebenza blade that I placed in a body I custom made for it. I think its a BG42 blade but can't be absolutely sure. I actually got it from the guy I originally built it for and had to replace the handles on it due to one scale he cracked accidentally. I used it as an excuse to see if I liked green canvas micarta enough to use it more.

You can read about the knife thouroughly here at this link. It tells the whole story.
http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/759073/

Sorry for the slight derail.

STR
 
allenC said:
Ming, I hope you're not going to fillet fish with that Pacific Salt and not clean it!:barf:
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No I'll only rinse it in seawater however. My Dad has an old pair of fishing shorts that he never washes, maybe I can lend it to him.......
 
Thanks for the clarification, Steven! Clearly H-1 can rust.

I agree that H-1 seems to be a better choice than X15 for a dive knife (I'd also opt for the superior corrosion resistance)

Steven, do you now prefer the Pacific Salt to Benchmade's 100SH20 (H-1 version) ? I'd prefer a fixed blade, though...

Thanks for your help
 
I heard (rumor?) that Spyderco is working on a fixed blade H1...don't know if it's true, but that'd be nice. :)

I just received my Pacific Salt (PE, yellow) and love it!
 
Mathman, I just asked (on the 24th) in the Spyderco forum if there were any updates on it. Here's the response from Sal:

Sal Glesser said:
We have several, still "in the works".

sal
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glen200300 said:
Thanks for the clarification, Steven! Clearly H-1 can rust.

I agree that H-1 seems to be a better choice than X15 for a dive knife (I'd also opt for the superior corrosion resistance)

Steven, do you now prefer the Pacific Salt to Benchmade's 100SH20 (H-1 version) ? I'd prefer a fixed blade, though...

Thanks for your help
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The 100SH2O knife is attached to the boat for use by any one of the crew. The sheath is screwed to a mount on the wooden transom at the stern.

I like to carry my own personal knife, so I bought the P-Salt. I didn't really feel the need for a personal fixed blade as we have the Benchmade on the boat if we need one.

They are both great knives, you just have decide whether a fixed blade or a folder suits your needs best.

STR said:
I gave a very good friend in the landscaping business one of my Salt 1 knives with the full serrations. He uses it for trimming and even for jobs I don't want to know about like digging in the dirt to transplant small plants. He has told me that on more than one occasion he has left the knife out all night and on two of those occasions it was left sitting in pine mulch (very acidic) when it rained. It has yet to show even so much as anything more than surface scratches from use. No rust whatsoever.

Who ever wrote that about H1 rusting is mistaken. It will not rust period.

STR
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The Salt that you mention hasn't been exposed to the arduous conditions that our knives have. Ours go out on the Atlantic all year round, on our inflatable inshore rescue boats. They get soaked in sea spray every time they go out and are then returned to a heated boat house, usually without getting a rinse first.
After a period of many months I found that tang was rusting where water had got trapped in the tight gap under the scales.
Rust. On H1 steel. On the tang. Not the screws.
 
You've got me interested in what you do Steven. I know it's a slight detour in the thread but do you care to elaborate?
 
I'm a wholetime firefighter in Jersey, Channel Islands, Great Britain.

In addition to the other roles that we have, we also operate two RNLI-spec D class inshore lifeboats.
 
Steven Andrews said:
I'm a wholetime firefighter in Jersey, Channel Islands, Great Britain.

In addition to the other roles that we have, we also operate two RNLI-spec D class inshore lifeboats.
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I think I speak for many when I say thank you for your service.
 
glen200300 said:
CIt also appears that H1 can rust as well, contrary to claims of its 100% corrosion resistance...
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All materials containing iron can rust given harsh enough conditions, and even those that don't contain iron can oxidize heavily which have similar detrimental effects on the materials. However for some materials the conditions are so extreme (high heats, chemicals and/or really long exposure times) that very few people will ever notice them.

Stephen, have you used knives made out of the more traditional high corrosion resistant martensitic alloys like 420HC or 440C? I assume these rust but how does it effect their function. Did you actually see failures with the blades due to severe pitting, or was it just a sharpness and sharpening issue?

-Cliff
 
Steven you are the only person out of countless to make this claim of seeing rust on H1 steel. Many other users have had them in and out of salt water as diving knives, marine boat knives, and more. There are also countless testimony written here and elsewhere of vinegar bath, salt water bath, acid and I can't remember what all else and none of them have rusted. You should offer to send that knife in to Spyderco to evaluate if it rusted. Even they have not been able to make one rust in their own tests.

STR
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Stephen, have you used knives made out of the more traditional high corrosion resistant martensitic alloys like 420HC or 440C? I assume these rust but how does it effect their function. Did you actually see failures with the blades due to severe pitting, or was it just a sharpness and sharpening issue?

-Cliff
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Our old knives were cheap dive knives - I presume they were 420HC. The tip had been ground down to make it blunt and they were covered in rust and looked unprofessional. I recommended the Benchmades as a replacement.

The H1 100SH2Os have held up really well. The blades remain immaculate and shave sharp (maintained by me :) )
After the initial disassembly and Marine Tuff Cloth application, rust has not reappeared.
I wonder if the rust could have been from contamination with "normal steel" during the manufacturing process??
 
It is possible that the same tools are used to machine the various steels and that there could be some adhesion. However the enviroment and level of extended exposure it likely signficantly greater than most R&D so it also isn't unlikely that it could have exceeded the limits. You could try taking it apart and buffing off the protectant and checking it another year later.

-Cliff
 
It has to be something of that nature Cliff. To me the best way to make something rust really fast is to do the same procedure as anodizing only in COKE or Diet Pepsi and crank up the voltage. I've made titanium corrode and rust this way. Big pits form at 125V and they take on that typical rust color after you clean it off under the tap water rinse.

I've done this same thing with H1 pins left over from ugrades on Salt knives I've rebuilt for forum members and all the pins do is take on a coat that is aluminum gray in color. No rust is evident and no real corrosion to speak of just a thin oxide layer a gray color. I would think if H1 was ever really going to corrode it would be then since this does a real number on titanium. Coke is pretty corrosive on its own but with a current running through it things speed up dramatically.

STR
 
Sal, can we get a few details about the H-1 fixed blade designs? Do you at least have a rough idea for a release date?

Right now, there aren't too many options available. The Benchmade 100SH20 isn't available without serrations. This isn't a deal-breaker for me, but the blade is already so short! (only 3.23") Also I'd prefer a spear tip -- more versatile. I was looking at the Boker Orca (in X15) and the Mission MPK (titanium), but no way I'm spending 200-300$...
 
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