?s about defensive blade length based on actual training/experience

mc5aw

mc5aw

Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
295
Opinion-based questions for folks who have taken defensive knife courses/seminars with legitimate trainers (Hockheim, McCann, military, etc.) ... Do you EDC and train with a 3" or 4" blade? What is the thinking behind your preference? In Spyderco terms, it's similar to a Delica vs. Endura argument, but I'm interested in the reasoning for a given choice of trainer and EDC. Not looking for the best paper cutter, box opener, ninja blade, Rambo death tool, etc.; just hands-on pros and cons for both blade lengths.

I got away from Spydercos a while back, and am now looking to reenter the fray for EDC as well as knife classes. I like that both the Delica and Endura have dedicated trainer models available.

Thank you in advance.
 
It doesn't matter. A box cutter works fine and it's what, like an inch? Carry whatever you think you can access and use in an emergency, and leave the ruler at home.
 
Thank you for your input. The training classes I am participating in don't allow me to work with a generic Lowes box cutter, thus my inquiry about 3" and 4" blade lengths.
 
Different instructors use different techniques, and sometimes prefer different shaped blades. Maybe you should ask which one your particular instructor suggests, and some here might be able to compare or discuss what they prefer.
 
Take a look at the blades that Spyderco sells as dedicated defensive blades (Yo2, Reverse, Ronin, etc). These are designed by very knowledgeable self-defense instructors. That might give you some guidance.
 
Most of Spyderco's self-defense specific knives tend to be closer to the 3" (or 3.5") end of the spectrum. The PPT, Yojimbo, Kahr Delica, standard Delica, and such tend to be a reasonable EDC size so that actually carrying the knife daily isn't a hassle. The Yojimbo 2, for example, was designed to provide maximum cutting power in a knife roughly the same size as a Delica. This allows the knife to be carried openly or concealed, and still be comfortable.

As mentioned above, Id ask your instructor's opinion first. They may have techniques/philosophies that require a specific style of knife.
 
Able Dog said:
Most of Spyderco's self-defense specific knives tend to be closer to the 3" (or 3.5") end of the spectrum. The PPT, Yojimbo, Kahr Delica, standard Delica, and such tend to be a reasonable EDC size so that actually carrying the knife daily isn't a hassle. The Yojimbo 2, for example, was designed to provide maximum cutting power in a knife roughly the same size as a Delica. This allows the knife to be carried openly or concealed, and still be comfortable.

As mentioned above, Id ask your instructor's opinion first. They may have techniques/philosophies that require a specific style of knife.
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+1 Thank you for this response! I looked at the Yo2 and viewed Mr. Janich's related video and factored that into my own training equation. The parameters I have are fairly broad: folder with locking blade, within legal length, no bias against manufacturer. In my state there is a bit of gray area re: knife law, thus something similar to the Applegate folder would not be permitted as it can be classified as a "dagger".
 
Hi Mc5aw

Size preference is often associated with "legal to carry in my area". Most MBC minded knife afi's don't want to have to deal with carrying an illegal knife for which there may be hassles. 4" blades are becoming illegal in many areas so the tendency of 3.5", 3.0" or even 2.5" blades become a consideration. Endura and Delica's are a common choice. We're planning trainers for the Michael Janich Yo2 and the Karahawk. If I can get a 3.5" version of the Stretch 2 refined, we'll add that. Most important is sharp and reliable.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Mc5aw

Size preference is often associated with "legal to carry in my area". Most MBC minded knife afi's don't want to have to deal with carrying an illegal knife for which there may be hassles. 4" blades are becoming illegal in many areas so the tendency of 3.5", 3.0" or even 2.5" blades become a consideration. Endura and Delica's are a common choice. We're planning trainers for the Michael Janich Yo2 and the Karahawk. If I can get a 3.5" version of the Stretch 2 refined, we'll add that. Most important is sharp and reliable.

sal
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Thank you Sal for the response. I agree on the trend toward smaller blades, and just ordered a Delica and Delica trainer. I look forward to working with both of them. The Yo2 also piqued my interest, but I believe the Delica's profile will fit my hand better.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond.
 
mc5aw said:
+1 Thank you for this response! I looked at the Yo2 and viewed Mr. Janich's related video and factored that into my own training equation. The parameters I have are fairly broad: folder with locking blade, within legal length, no bias against manufacturer. In my state there is a bit of gray area re: knife law, thus something similar to the Applegate folder would not be permitted as it can be classified as a "dagger".
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A number of knives "could be" classified as a dagger.

For many years (beginning around '96) I carried a Fairbairn Applegate Folder (I think possibly your knife reference), a 4" bladed covert to be at or under any regional 4" blade limitations on concealed folder knives as a primary knife (always referred to as a knife, or default definition a tool). For a number of years this was replaced with Cold Steel TiLite because the TiLite included a number of addition options related to less lethal force (the quillons are very aggressive in the blade closed position, and the will open the blade in raking maneuvers, fun stuff to practice with ;-)

The codes where I live and travel appear to qualify a "dagger" as a "dangerous weapon" citing a few qualifiers in various locations within the codes, including two significant features (more than one sharpened edge, and fixed blade). My knife fits neither qualifier. I have handed this knife to various police officals, federal agents, and TSA officials in the past and it was always returned to me without issue (I would say, because of how I responded during a stop).

Regional codes should be given thorough review for specific application and fallout of the definitions and terms. If a city code is vague, look to the county code, then to state code, then to federal code as it governs all the land (assuming we're talking U.S.). For my area the overall interpetation points to a dagger being a
1) fixed-blade
2) more than one sharpened edge
3) designed for thrusting as a weapon.

If however during a stop or in conversation overheard by "others", I made a reference that my knife is a weapon, dagger, stiletto, etc., etc. I could be in trouble. If ever stopped and asked about weapons on my person, I stick with the primary rational that my knife/knives are tools (NOT weapons, any more than a pencil could be used offensively and/or defensively). So, I would not say (or produce) I have a knife when asked about weapons (that would be a dumb action in my mind).

When laws and regional codes are vague, best to think about these types of things before hand, and have responses ready for appropriate times.

Carrying knives specifically marketed as weapons ... would seem to illustrate premeditation in my mind (the guy looking for trouble).

If you're gonna carry a knife, be prepared as to how you would present it and answer questions about it should you be asked. Your answers relate to potential future repercussions.

Sorry for the long post, hopefully something useful to you here ...

BTW, the Spyderco Military models have replaced those earlier 4" folder carry knife examples for me quite nicely. It is hard to justify a substitution for length in my experiences (carry length allowable is my general rule).

Regards,


Regards,
 
Spey ... Excellent points and info. I have a strong aversion to word "weapon" as it pertains to personally owned firearms and knives, and never refer to what I own as "weapons".

As I mentioned, in my state the knife laws are somewhat ambiguous, so erring on the side of caution is wise. The dagger classification is equally vague, and seems to include obvious daggers as well as anything with a false edge that could be sharpened into a second edge. I did a good deal of comparison shopping and review reading, and feel the Delica will suffice nicely.

Thank you again for your input.
 
I practice MBC and have seen what small blades will do if they're sharp. Even box cutters, which you can also get trainers for, BTW.

Almost all of us use either an Endura or Delica trainer exclusively.

My carry knives run around 3 1/4 inches on average.

I HIGHLY recommend Janich's system. Once familiar with the philosophy behind it you'll understand why.
 
Depends on what's legal, what's practical and what makes sense against the expected threat as well as the probability of that threat happening anywhere else than in our imagination.
 
After the "Can I legally carry it?" question is answered, carry the largest folder you possibly can. I carry the Tatanka almost every single day. Sometimes, I carry The CS Rajah II or XL Espada.

Here is how to think - Lets say you are at the mall. An Islamic terrorist is stabbing and beheading people. All you have is your knife you carry every day. A lot of thoughts would be going through your head. "Gee I wish I had a smaller knife" would not be one of those thoughts.

Knife size cannot take the place of skill and training. Small knives in the hands of trained people can be very effective. Those same people would even be more effective with a bigger knife. Bigger knives cut and penetrate deeper.

P.S. By the way, my hypothetical story is a very real possibility with the traitors we have running this country. They are importing them by the thousands.
 
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Dave Hunnicutt said:
After the "Can I legally carry it?" question is answered, carry the largest folder you possibly can. I carry the Tatanka almost every single day. Sometimes, I carry The CS Rajah II or XL Espada.

Here is how to think - Lets say you are at the mall. An Islamic terrorist is stabbing and beheading people. All you have is your knife you carry every day. A lot of thoughts would be going through your head. "Gee I wish I had a smaller knife" would not be one of those thoughts.

Knife size cannot take the place of skill and training. Small knives in the hands of trained people can be very effective. Those same people would even be more effective with a bigger knife. Bigger knives cut and penetrate deeper.

P.S. By the way, my hypothetical story is a very real possibility with the traitors we have running this country. They are importing them by the thousands.
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I have to agree on that. Many laugh at the "extra large folders" as gimmicky and cumbersome, but if you get used to carry them and use a smaller blade for mundane tasks and chores around people, I bet you'll be glad of the extra reach when you need it, and it'll be in your pocket at that time.

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If and if a knife is used with defensive purpose, reach and length is key, both to offend more effectively and to prevend the offender to get close enought to hurt you.

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Size does matter sometimes, and this is one of the very few instances where extra inches might save your life someday, or get you out of real trouble (i.e. intimidation factor)

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Practice, awareness, tool length, mindset, training, tool's size...all are part of the equation, in one or another way

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If your state laws allow, carry the largest, sharpest and meanest you can find

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I don't notice the size of the Tatanka or the Rajah II in a pair of Levis. The XL Espada with it's 7.5" blade is not quite as easy to carry. But, still no big deal.

One other very important thing. I do not carry a knife because I think I am going to stand toe to toe and duel someone like in the typical knife fighting class. A knife is a last ditch tool to stop a mass murder in process where my best chance is to ambush an attacker mowing down people with a gun or stabbing people with a knife. This is where a big knife is KEY. You need a big knife that will give you penetration to hit something important or the capacity to remove a limb (Rajah II / XL Espada). If you are fighting fair, you are doing something wrong.

It is a different world now.

P.S. I carry a G-10 Dragonfly for small tasks.
 
Lol. I didn't see the need of actually carrying my large folders in public.
However if more people do that I might have to as well. Don't want to be out knifed ;-)
 
Whatever blade you choose.

Get it with a wave feature.
Or finger f##k so much that you have developed muscle memory with it.
 
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