?s about defensive blade length based on actual training/experience

DavidMN0 said:
Yes, knives are really only practical as an attacking weapon or as a last resort. I'd never go to a knife first.
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With even more experience than when I wrote that article 12 years ago, I can say that, at very close range, with some attacks, a knife may be the most useful weapon. Being choked is an ideal example of a situation in which the knife is probably the best defensive weapon to be employed.

John
 
Spectre said:
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/the-daily-carry-blade-common-sense-and-the-knife/
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Thx

Interesting.

Hard to disagree with:
"So, the knife should not be used defensively if one has other options, and it is wiser to use time spent practicing knife-on-knife contact practicing other methods of dealing with a knife attack."

"The daily carry blade’s mission is as tool: the only circumstance in which it should be employed defensively is (1) at very close range and (2) when lacking other options. As already discussed, using a small blade means being within contact distance of an attacker, which is a good thing to avoid."

"Please understand, using a knife defensively is only something that should be done in extremely rare circumstances and as a last resort. Those situations will be such that displaying the knife ahead of time is worse than useless; it can get you killed, quickly. Those who choose knives based on experience and forethought, therefore, tend to choose high-quality tools sized for ease of carry and use. Choosing any daily carry knife for its “intimidation factor” is best left for armchair commandos and remote warriors."

A refreshing read, more 'real world' and a nice change from the usual moronic couch ninja braggadocio.
 
If there's a better SD folding knife than the Matriarch 2 ... I'd like to hear someone offer their choice.

It is flat with almost no "footprint."

The deployment is second nature with a bit of practice + muscle memory <which most Spyderco ELU's already possess with hour upon hour of flicking>.

The serrations are the best edge choice for penetrating layers.

The recurve effectively gathers the target.

The point would trail and sever extensively with slashes.

The model itself was designed around the phil. of use of being deployed in high stress situations when swiping, gross motor movements would predominate.

Mat. 2's come with the option of Emerson openers, if that's your thing.

................................................

A Cold Steel XL SE Vaquero is a good choice, with similar features, but with more reach and a more in-line point which would be better for piercing stabs and parrys.
 
I normally stay very far away from these sort of topics for a variety of reasons.

I had formal training while in the USMC back in the 80's, that was with fixed blades however and I still believe that a 6" to 7" fixed blade is very hard to beat if one can carry one.

Personally I am of the belief that anything beats fingernails, could be a rock, broom handle, lead pipe, butter knife etc.

Avoidance is the best course of action that and awareness, that is avoid conflict however possible, ones brain is the best weapon in the end.

That said whatever EDC one carries normally would do fine because they are used to it if avoidance is not possible and none of the above is handy... or a Gun.

That is my take on this for what that is worth and I normally EDC a Military.
 
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Cool discussion...

When I developed MBC, I structured it around a very strong chain of logic that still forms the foundation of the system today--and is the first thing I teach. The key elements of that logic are:

1) You will fight with the knife you actually carry. That should be something convenient and legally permissible in your area. It is not the Bowie at home in your sock drawer.
2) You must quantify and understand the destructive capacity of your carry knife.
3) Real self-defense is all about stopping power. The longer an attacker remains dangerous to you, the greater the chances you will be seriously wounded or killed.
4) You must understand human anatomy, how it works, and how to make it stop working immediately based on items 1 and 2 above.
5) Based on number 1 and 2 above, some knife tactics (like targeting the aorta) simply will not work with smaller knives.

Based on all this and the most common worst-case carry scenario (i.e. you live in Boston or Chicago or work in a federal building and are limited to a 2.5-inch blade length limit), MBC's tactics are structured to provide reliable, predictable stopping power when applied with a 2.5-inch blade. The reliable, predictable part of that has been reviewed and endorsed by trauma surgeons who teach for the International School of Tactical Medicine.

Does that mean I purposely ONLY carry a 2.5-inch blade? No, of course not. Where I can get by with more, I do. However, when I travel to Chicago and Boston, I swap my stock Yojimbo 2s for "Chicagojimbos" that I ground down to 2.5 inches. My standard back pocket knife is also a Kahr Delica 4 that was purposely designed to meet the 2.5-inch restriction.

Most importantly, however, is the fact that the tactics I train will still work--even when I carry shorter blades. As such, my training remains consistent.

Check your laws and talk to your instructor about the details of the anatomical targeting in the system you're learning. Then, do some independent study on human anatomy to make sure the system's approach to targeting is medically valid and that you can actually reach the targets it recommends with the knife you carry. Remember to scale up the depths of your targets to account for large-framed attackers. Sticking a 2.5-inch blade into the belly of a 300-pound guy may be messy, but you'll still be several twelve packs away from his vital organs.

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,

Mike

P.S. If your instructor cites W.E. Fairbairn's Timetable of Death, realize that, while all the targets are valid, the rest of the data is B.S.
 
Michael Janich said:
P.S. If your instructor cites W.E. Fairbairn's Timetable of Death, realize that, while all the targets are valid, the rest of the data is B.S.
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Hi Mike,

I always thought that was funny myself. :D

But I don't talk about these sort of things, reading them can be entertaining however. :thumbup:

Always preferred a .45 center mass followed by two in the brain pan myself for sorting things out quickly.


Jim
 
Nice to see sych figures posting in this thread.
The one and only smaller than 3.5" blade I'd trust my life to in the unfortunate scenario of SD use, I guess it'd be this one

2016-10-14%2010.04.56_zpslxkgscqk.jpg


Juts by how it tears fertilizer bags, slices plant twigs and roots and cuts open plastic containers...

2016-10-14%2013.51.53_zpsxqabhoef.jpg


A true punch-above-its-weight blade
 
Sal and Mr. Janich contributing their thoughts was worth enduring the thread drift away from my original inquiry. Having recently received the Delica and trainer, I find it to be a very comfortable and use-friendly knife to practice with and carry. Once the Yo2 trainer is available, I may give it a closer look also.

Thank you to everyone who contributed something of value.
 
Great to hear from both Sal and mr. Janich in this thread. Things just got (even) more interesting.

Nice to have contributions from not just one but two forum members who have collaborated on knife designs with Spyderco.

I was very tempted by the Yo 2 but in my quest for Spyderco-Perrins, the madness must stop somewhere :-) and Ive lately accumulated several PPTs, a couple of Street Beats and yet another Street Bowie (I foolishly sold the first one as I needed funds for another knife purchase - this was the uncoated version to boot. Doubt Ill stumble over one of those any day soon).

Personally I didnt buy the PPT for self defense (Im just keen on Spyderco-Perrins and use them for chores, kitchen duty etc.) but how do you guys rate the PPT?

I like long bladed Bowie knives as much as the other guy and have several but when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, not a lot of knife blade length is needed.

A local case was about a young man getting stabbed. He bled out very quick from being stabbed with a cheap Asian copy of a German knife made in the standard single edge folder configuration of yore. As I know some cops I went to their stash of confiscated weapons and saw this knife amongst a multitude of other confiscated weapons. It was a single blade three inch knife IIRC.
 
PeteyTwoPointOne said:
If there's a better SD folding knife than the Matriarch 2 ... I'd like to hear someone offer their choice.

It is flat with almost no "footprint."

The deployment is second nature with a bit of practice + muscle memory <which most Spyderco ELU's already possess with hour upon hour of flicking>.

The serrations are the best edge choice for penetrating layers.

The recurve effectively gathers the target.

The point would trail and sever extensively with slashes.

The model itself was designed around the phil. of use of being deployed in high stress situations when swiping, gross motor movements would predominate.

Mat. 2's come with the option of Emerson openers, if that's your thing.
...
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You may want to look at the C12 Civilian.

It might be said that the C12 Matriarch is the little sister, or daughter, of the Civilian. (Yes, both have same numeric designation C12.)

The Matriarch developed as a self defense knife for the women of South Africa, and previously the Civilian developed as a self defense/extrication blade for plain clothes LEO's.

Interestingly, this example seems to directly relate to the OP's question on training and carrying slightly longer vs. shorter bladed knives. Two versions of a defensive knife in two blade length.


Regards,
 
As Mike mentioned, it's a good idea to train with your EDC. The Civilian and similar blades are not suited for daily tasks.
 
Spectre said:
As Mike mentioned, it's a good idea to train with your EDC. The Civilian and similar blades are not suited for daily tasks.
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Most certainly.

IIRC the Civilian was for certain law enforcement personnel who were not able to carry a gun in certain situations.

Very much a specialized tool.

And very good at what its supposed to do, I imagine.
 
Matriarch or lil matriarch are very nice knives,that id love to have in sd situation,unfortunately only carry ladybug on my keychain most times!
 
Hey, All:

Sorry I'm late getting back into this thread. I spent most of this week on the production of Season 9 of "The Best Defense," so my plate was full...

With regard to the other questions asked:

Yojimbo 2 vs. Ronin 2: It's funny that the "R&D" for the original Ronin 2 consisted of my friend Mickey Yurco literally tracing a Yojimbo 2 on a piece of paper and making me a fixed blade version. When I asked Spyderco if it was OK for Mickey to make a few, they graciously agreed. When I took delivery on a few from Mickey at the Blade Show, they were very impressed and snagged one to put in the prototype case. Customer feedback was good and the rest is history.

The primary difference between the two is, of course, the difference between fixed-blade and folder, which basically translates into ease of carry, speed of draw, and legality. If you can legally carry either one, the fixed blade is faster and easier to draw, but less convenient. If your local laws don't allow fixed blades, the Yo 2 is obviously a better choice.

On a side note, the laws in Colorado do allow fixed blades; however, I opt to carry Yojimbo 2s instead because I travel so often and have to play by other states' rules on a regular basis. I don't want to have to change gears every other week to switch back and forth between the two deployment skill sets.

Also, even though I designed the Yo 2 to be Colorado legal, when it was adapted to the Ronin 2 and the scales were shortened to accommodate the sheath function, the blade functionally got longer and is now no longer Colorado legal. As such, just as I've custom ground a few "Chicagojimbos" to fit Chicago's 2.5-inch blade length limit, I've also ground a few "ColoRonins" for the same reason.

As for my thoughts on the PPT and Fred's designs, I LOVE THEM! Long before I met Fred, I was a big fan of his work. Now that we've been good friends for a number of years and had the opportunity to discuss blade design, tactics, and many other topics at length, my respect for him and his down-to-earth approach is even greater. Although some of his designs, like the Street Beat and Street Bowie, still have more belly than I prefer, the PPT's straighter edge and lower point is significantly more Wharncliffy without sacrificing tip strength. It's hybrid blend of a "scaled Reeve Integral Lock" is also an underappreciated element of brilliance that provides the lock strength of a RIL without the problems associated with touching the lock bar while trying to open the knife one handed (i.e. pushing the detent ball deeper and fouling your opening).

On another side note, I wrote an article on Fred for Blade last year and another for FMG. In them, I explained that my favorite design of his--and my favorite neck knife period--is his Neck Bowie. Fred appreciated the articles and to express his thanks made me a custom Wharncliffe Neck Bowie. I promptly shared it on social media and Fred was bombarded with requests for one. To meet that need, he, with Spyderco's blessing, had the design produced by his mid-tech maker, Max Knives. It's called the Fusion and it is now my new absolute favorite small fixed blade/neck knife.

Again, thank you all for a cool thread and for your interest in my "take" on things...

Stay safe,

Mike
 
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