S110V or ZDP-189

There is quite a bit more to the edge retention they just the hardness. The micro-structure is very important. 13C26 has a very fine grain structure and gets very sharp. 440C has some very large carbides that tend to rip out of the very edge edge partially reducing edge retention. ALL of the metals you listed much be compared on many more factors than just HRc.
 
I used to be very picky about the hardness of steel. I still prefer steel to be harder, but as mentioned there is a lot more to edge holding than hardness. For example, when I first found out that S60V was hardened to Rc 56, I was heartbroken. This was supposed to be some super modern alloy to beat all others, but with that hardness how could it be any good? Well I was wrong. Even at Rc 56 CPM S60V holds an edge very nicely. There may be a few tasks where harder steel would last longer, but for most of the things people need cut (paper and cardboard) extra wear resistance is still of great benefit.

Edit: If you want to take your edge down to six degrees per side, that's another story.
 
Yultuz asked:
Why are they no longer made?
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The steels were too difficult to process and roll. They ended up making only one, maybe two melts of S125V. It's difficult to find, but there is some around with custom makers. Phil Wilson has some and is willing to make a knife in it. He states that he can make 3 knives in the amount of time he needs to make 1 S125V knife. For obvious reasons production in quantity is ruled out.

S140V was talked about a couple of years back but I'm unsure if any melts were made, and it existed only on paper, or if some was actually produced.

Does S110V have better edge retention than VG-10 or BG-42?
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Absolutely. It has better edge retention than ZDP and S90V also. It's an amazing steel, and is capable of being run at higher RC's than S90 even. Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Absolutely. It has better edge retention than ZDP and S90V also. It's an amazing steel, and is capable of being run at higher RC's than S90 even. Joe
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On my tests it is far behind ZDP189 (for high sharpness holding up to 200 cuts) and I do not know any other tests done so far any other test results to discuss. It is also behind BG42 and I did not really tested yet CPM S90V and VG10.

However hardness is not only contributor to edge holding - best edge holding I have was for Dozier D2 with 60-61HRC.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Gentlemen,
You're so willing to give info. Thank you very much.
However you made me hesitant to buy Kershaw Shallot S110V or ZDP-189...
 
yultuz, I have both of these knives, and love them. They take a wicked sharp edge, and hold it a long time.

Two things to consider: the Composite Blade Technology is unique to Kershaw, as is the 110V. No one else has released anything in 110V, and both of these knives are limited production runs.

If you like the Shallot (frame lock, SpeedSafe, etc.) these are the top two in the lineup. If you were to but one, and become unhappy with it, you will have no problem selling it and recovering your investment. Contact 2brothers via PM here and talk with him about this. I don't think you will be unhappy if you do.

Either one of these knives will give you years of excellent service, and you get Kershaw's outstanding customer service!
 
Unless you plan on scuba diving with it, I respectfully disagree. My ZDP Leek, manufactured in July 2006, doesn't have a spot of rust on it anywhere.
 
SPXTrader said:
Unless you plan on scuba diving with it, I respectfully disagree. My ZDP Leek, manufactured in July 2006, doesn't have a spot of rust on it anywhere.
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Really? This is good! However the discussion above has left an impression on me like that ZDP-189 may be rusted if it's used in kitchen for 2-3 years. I don't scuba dive. Have you tested yours on acidic fruits?
 
there are a boatload of carbon steel kitchen knives, can't imagine what would happen to ZDP-189 that wouldn't happen a thousand times faster to 1095.
 
I'e used my ZDP-189 for apples, oranges, and tomatoes...I also and trimmed my Christmas tree with it. It has been put away dirty multiple times, and not cleaned for up to 48 hours after use with everything listed above. There is zero oxidation or patina on the blade.
 
yultuz, I use my ZDP Shallot in the kitchen frequently. I don't hold it under running water, unless I'm prepared to take it apart later and clean and re-lube it properly. I've cut pickles (no change in color) celery, eggs, chicken, fish, meat, apples, pineapples, oranges, grapefruit, garlic, lemons, limes, potatoes and just about anything you can think of that you would use in food prep.

When I'm finished, I wipe the blade clean and put a drop of mineral oil on a paper towel and wipe the blade. I do this with all my kitchen knives, including 1095, 154CM, 3V, D-2 and SG2. With just a few seconds of preventative maintenance, you'll have no rust.

And if you want to use it for food prep, stick with mineral oil for the pivot, too. Non-toxic!
 
Sorry to have given the impression that the ZDP-189 blade would rust out. I was answering your questions about edge retention. The specific example I was thinking of the time was D2 (not even CPM-D2) vs. s30v. In one set of tests the D2 had edge retention nearly the equal of s30v on dry materials but when used on citrus fruit and wet carpet the extra corrosion resistance of the s30v won out over other factors and the D2 fell behind by a significant bit.

As to these two specific knives in these two specific steels at their specific hardness, I can not make any predictions but to say the ZDP version has higher hardness, and a bit thinner blade, but the s110v is supposed to have better corrosion resistance.
 
I own both but have zero experience with either as I am keeping them in box as part of a collection.
 
However, Spyderco forum has full of rust spot, oxydation issues:

Jake Bauer said:
I Agree. VG10 Is a fantastic edge holder, and is easy to re sharpen. Yes ZDP holds an edge longer, but is harder to sharpen and I've heard some people who have had some mild rusting problems.

TrailingEdge said:
I did have some minor rust show up on the ZDP (as Jake mentioned); so I don't carry it so much.

in
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601281

Another thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=580385
is all about rust problem in ZDP-189.

shangchi108 said:
so I'm very happy and impressed with the performance of ZDP. I haven't noticed any of the rust problems that others have reported.

in
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584171
 
SPXTrader said:
yultuz, I use my ZDP Shallot in the kitchen frequently. I don't hold it under running water, unless I'm prepared to take it apart later and clean and re-lube it properly. I've cut pickles (no change in color) celery, eggs, chicken, fish, meat, apples, pineapples, oranges, grapefruit, garlic, lemons, limes, potatoes and just about anything you can think of that you would use in food prep.

When I'm finished, I wipe the blade clean and put a drop of mineral oil on a paper towel and wipe the blade. I do this with all my kitchen knives, including 1095, 154CM, 3V, D-2 and SG2. With just a few seconds of preventative maintenance, you'll have no rust.

And if you want to use it for food prep, stick with mineral oil for the pivot, too. Non-toxic!
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I can't care so much. I usually hold my knife under running water and fold it without wiping and put it into my pocket. I'm such a person. So, is ZDP suitable for me?
 
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