S110V or ZDP-189

If you don't make it a practice to wipe and oil it as some once every few weeks or once a month you will probably enjoy the s110v for a longer time as it, over the long period, requires less maintenance. Holy qualifiers batman.
 
Something that hasn't been mentioned here, is that some people's perspiration is more acidic (or caustic, or something) than others. Some people can rust or discolor a "stainless" steel pocket knife on a warm day just by carrying it in their pocket. I just mention that because all kinds of variables are at play here when you're talking about rust and the resistance to it (climate, dryness, hard- or soft-water, etc.).
 
riffraff said:
Something that hasn't been mentioned here, is that some people's perspiration is more acidic (or caustic, or something) than others.
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My Spyderco Native can be used as evidence for being a sweaty bastage :D
 
yultuz said:
The composition of S110V:
Carbon 2.8%, Chromium 14%, Vanadium 9%, Molybdenum 3.5%, Cobalt 2%, Niobium 3.5%.
The composition of S125V:
Carbon 3.3%, Chromium 14.5%, Vanadium 12.5%, Molybdenum 2.5%.
The composition of ZDP-189 according to a source:
Carbon 3%, Chromium 20%, Vanadium 0.1%, Molybdenum 1.3%.

ZDP-189 has less Vanadium, however, this only affects its edge holding capability. Because its Carbon and HRC are high, its edge holding capability should already be high. S110V hes less Chromium than ZDP-189. So why the rust/stain/wear/corrosion resistance of S110V is higher than that of ZDP-189?
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I just want to add a little to what Joshua also was explaining. For corrosion resistance you need Chromium to be "free" (in solution) with the Fe-C matrix. Chromium, Vanadium, Molybdenum and Niobium, apart from being in solution also form carbides during heat treatment. The whole trick of powder steels is to try and form as many fine grained carbides as possible thus achieving both high wear resistance and high toughness.

My guess is that because the CPM powder steels contain a high degree of Vanadium, which will form carbides readily, there will be more "free" Chromium in solution to act as a rust inhibitor. In ZDP-189, on the other hand, most of the Chromium will be tied up as carbides leaving a smaller (not enough?)amount free to act as rust inhibitor.

//Rickard//
 
That makes sense.

I think this also comes down to maintenance. Any steel will rust (H-1 the exception?), it just depends on the type of steel as to how long it will take. While I take good care of my knives, I've never had a spot of rust form on any of them. Even the MC Ti/ZDP beater I carry almost daily. I treat that knife rough, and it has held up perfectly since April 07.
 
You have reached Don Vito's answering machine. The Don is unable to reply to your post at this time. Please repost in 20 to 30, or with good behavior, possibly 15.

Thank you!
 
Coronite said:
My guess is that because the CPM powder steels contain a high degree of Vanadium, which will form carbides readily, there will be more "free" Chromium in solution to act as a rust inhibitor. In ZDP-189, on the other hand, most of the Chromium will be tied up as carbides leaving a smaller (not enough?)amount free to act as rust inhibitor.
//Rickard//
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Good point! I think you're right!
 
This is another topic related to ZDP-189 and corrosion resistance:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391163.
I live a humid place and I sweat too much in summer. I don't maintenance my knife much. Although I like edge retention and hardness, I think I'll supposed to give ZDP-189 up.
Anyone really compared the edge retention of S110V to that of ZDP-189? In some test, S110V is behind ZDP-189:(
 
Anyone really compared the edge retention of S110V to that of ZDP-189? In some test, S110V is behind ZDP-189
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Don't think that Vassili's tests are the answer to everything. While worthwhile, and fun, they only test a part of the performance. He uses a thread to test it. I'd suggest that if the test material was drywall, or something that would really give the harder, large carbides an edge the S90, and S110V would have the advantage.

example: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584171

Note that he is referring to CATRA testing conducted by spyderco which gave
440C 360-400
VG10 500-510
S30V 550-580
S90V 750
ZDP 189 750
S125V 1200
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Note* released by Sal in Spyderco forum, copied here& referred to several times. Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Note that he is referring to CATRA testing conducted by spyderco which gave

Note* released by Sal in Spyderco forum, copied here& referred to several times. Joe
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I had seen these results and it had attracted my attention that S110V is absent in results. Then I had thought that S110V hadn't been worthed to mention alongside of S125V.
 
Grasshopper, just because you don't see something doesn't mean its there!

The reason 110V hasn't been mentioned is because its new. Kershaw is the first to bring this steel to the market.

That said, Thomas quoted Crucible as saying 110V was "S90V on steroids". With S125V now a thing of the past, the 110V is at the top of Crucible's line.
 
SPXTrader said:
The reason 110V hasn't been mentioned is because its new. Kershaw is the first to bring this steel to the market.

That said, Thomas quoted Crucible as saying 110V was "S90V on steroids". With S125V now a thing of the past, the 110V is at the top of Crucible's line.
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Was S110V released after S125V?
 
Grasshopper, just because you don't see something doesn't mean its there!
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You're hurting my brain! :confused::)

Choosing between a composite (zdp-189) Shallot and a S110V Shallot is like choosing between fillet mignon and lobster. I wanted both, but I had to choose just one. Such is life.:(

For what it's worth, I picked the S110V Shallot.
 
Was S110V released after S125V?
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Don Vito (SPX) is correct on this one as usual. The CATRA testing was done several years before S110V even existed.

Trust us that it is a very new and excellent steel, as good as anything on the market. ZDP is also an excellent steel with it's own set of strengths and weaknesses, just like S110, S90V, S125V, etc.

Personally, I believe you should have a knife or two in both steels ( ZDP & S110V), along with one in SG2, another excellent, top shelf steel. Then there is CPM 154cm, S30V, VG10,and 3V ( non stainless). All of these have been done by Kershaw/ZT so you can stick with Kershaw for all your needs :)
 
Still, the best thing to do is buy both the S110V and ZDP-189 versions and try them out for yourself.
Then you'll know which one is better. :thumbup:

mike
 
Take a look at the location Yultez. I do not believe it nearly as easy for him to "just buy both." If he is currently in Turkey there may be many financial reasons to only order one.

Another consideration in the decision is availability. One of the best sites to purchase knives online in New Graham. They have the ZDP version in stock but are already sold out of the s110v. It looks like it will become harder to get the s110v version in the future. This is pretty logical, there are a small collection of knives and makers using ZDP-189 but there are only two versions of one knife made by only one maker using s110v.
 
iamtoast said:
Another consideration in the decision is availability. One of the best sites to purchase knives online in New Graham. They have the ZDP version in stock but are already sold out of the s110v. It looks like it will become harder to get the s110v version in the future. This is pretty logical, there are a small collection of knives and makers using ZDP-189 but there are only two versions of one knife made by only one maker using s110v.
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I already have 3 ZDP-189. I'll buy 5 more. I'll select them from S110V and will buy from eBay.
 
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