I'm hearing complaints regarding the S30V and am wondering if this isn't a step backwards from the earlier BG 42. I'm planning on buying my first Sebenza (large) this weekend and purposely sought out one with BG 42 as I feel it is the best blade steel I've used bar none. No, I havent used the newer S30V but HAVE heard stories of lower HRC's applied to this steel to increse toughness. I feel the BG 42 at 60-61 HRC is definetly ,at least sounding, superior. Who's used both in a Sebenza and could share their edge comparison stories. Searched around abit and couldn't find this covered earlier.
-
Preorders are LIVE for the 2024 BladeForums Traditional Knife
Traditional Knife Information Thread - make sure you go in there and read up.
Requirements: Be a Gold or higher member or have been a member of the forums since 6/2023 with at least 100 posts in the Traditional Forum. Preorder is for people who live in the continental US only, international orders will be separate.Delivery expected in Q4 2024, hopefully before the holidays.
S30V really an improvement over BG 42??
- Thread starter GELADEN!
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1999
- Messages
- 1,648
If you do a "search" here in this sub-forum, the S30V blade Sebenza has been discussed alot. You might have to go back over a year or so.
Before you poo-poo S30V and CRK's heat treat you may want to define exactly what you are going to cut. I have had both BG-42 and S30V Sebenzas. I have found for general cutting (kitchen, paper, cardboard applications) I had to sharpen my S30V Sebenza a lot less than the BG-42. However, I am a commercial carpenter and have used both Sebenza cutting some not very pretty stuff (plywood, fiberboard, insulation, occasional drywall--nasty stuff, in other words.) What worked better for me wasn't either knife, but a flat grind profile. I personally feel that blade shape lends itself to better, tougher cutting than the hollow grind.
Also, I ought to let you know that there are some pretty high profile custom makers that are changing their minds on heat treating S30V. In the past, I think some of the "experts" around here have been extolling the virtues of a higher heat treat==60 or so.
I have done several deals in the past with Mike Obenauf (Kit Carson's son in law) Kit does the heat treating there. He used to heat treat S30V at around 60RC. But I guess there were some brittleness issues, so now Kit is heat treating everything that comes out of his shop at 58-59. Seems to me that's what CRK came up with a year and a half ago. Maybe he did enough research and has the raw data to justify the 58-59 RC of a S30V Sebenza.
Barry H
Before you poo-poo S30V and CRK's heat treat you may want to define exactly what you are going to cut. I have had both BG-42 and S30V Sebenzas. I have found for general cutting (kitchen, paper, cardboard applications) I had to sharpen my S30V Sebenza a lot less than the BG-42. However, I am a commercial carpenter and have used both Sebenza cutting some not very pretty stuff (plywood, fiberboard, insulation, occasional drywall--nasty stuff, in other words.) What worked better for me wasn't either knife, but a flat grind profile. I personally feel that blade shape lends itself to better, tougher cutting than the hollow grind.
Also, I ought to let you know that there are some pretty high profile custom makers that are changing their minds on heat treating S30V. In the past, I think some of the "experts" around here have been extolling the virtues of a higher heat treat==60 or so.
I have done several deals in the past with Mike Obenauf (Kit Carson's son in law) Kit does the heat treating there. He used to heat treat S30V at around 60RC. But I guess there were some brittleness issues, so now Kit is heat treating everything that comes out of his shop at 58-59. Seems to me that's what CRK came up with a year and a half ago. Maybe he did enough research and has the raw data to justify the 58-59 RC of a S30V Sebenza.
Barry H
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2000
- Messages
- 3,208
In my opinion, Chris takes his knifemaking very seriously. Each and every detail of his knives are as a result of painstaking review. Chris helped develop S30V. I know that a lot of people critisized Chris for making the hardness of the S30V at 58-59 but to be fair you have to give the guy credit. Every change that he has made to his knives are based on his desire to make them better knives. Personally I can't tell the difference but I am not a hard user of knives. I have yet to read a respected knifemaker that doesn't feel that S30V is a large improvement. S30V was made to be a knife steel. Let the "pros" say what they may. I for one think that if Chris wants it done, then it will make a better knife. He is deeply dedicated to producing an excellent product.
Professor
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 1999
- Messages
- 3,417
...was based on the theoretical premise that S30V needed to be harndened to 60+RC to gain optimal cutting performance.
Theory schmeory. I've been toting an S30V small Seb for a little over a year now, and toted the same in BG42 prior to that. In my unscientifically-based opinion, it cuts and retains its edge every bit as well as BG42, even at its supposed relative "softness." If anything, I will say that it sharpens easier on my Spydie ceramics, whereas BG42 required me to break out the Edgecraft Diamond sharpener.
I have a lot of respect for who the naysayers actually were, but in this case, I think they were significantly off target, from a "don't knock it til you've tried it" standpoint.
Professor.
Theory schmeory. I've been toting an S30V small Seb for a little over a year now, and toted the same in BG42 prior to that. In my unscientifically-based opinion, it cuts and retains its edge every bit as well as BG42, even at its supposed relative "softness." If anything, I will say that it sharpens easier on my Spydie ceramics, whereas BG42 required me to break out the Edgecraft Diamond sharpener.
I have a lot of respect for who the naysayers actually were, but in this case, I think they were significantly off target, from a "don't knock it til you've tried it" standpoint.
Professor.
........thanks for all the replies gentlemen. I just returned from a torrential downpour to LA where I retrieved my prize NIB Sebenza in BG42! I'm very happy with this acquisition and as far as the steel goes....it's gonna be a personal thing I guess. I just love this blend from Latrobe! That dull silver sets me off. As far as the overall package goes WOW what a mit full of steel it is! Kinda unfair to call it a plain version since I see elegence in craftsmanship and design oozing out of it. Now to settle in with the new friend......Steel is somewhat of a mystical alloy as there is no perfect steel.....just great ones.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2002
- Messages
- 2,761
The last time I poo-pooed S30V my butt was sore for weeks!
[Woo-hoo, my 700th post, and what a post it is!
]
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2002
- Messages
- 2,761
Ya know, I knew that last post was going to be my 700th post, and i contemplated writing something interesting, thought provoking, profound maybe, I'm thinking i missed profound by a little bit, but one thing i always say, you can NEVER get enough of good old poop jokes.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 1999
- Messages
- 842
When the word about the change to S30V hit the street last year I started getting a lot of questions from customers and owners about the new steel. I suppoose folks figured that since I was a major CRK dealer that I should be up on all of the latest innovations from Boise. I can follow the reasoning but, unfortunately (and understandably), Chris doesn't run all of his plans and decisions through his dealers.
I was as uninformed as the rest about the new steel so I started doing some research as soon as I could. Conversations with Chris and reading what information I could garner through trade pubs and internet sources, etc. was informative but I had no personal experience with the stuff so, last July, I sent my personal LS to Chris for a blade swap to S30V. That way I could try it for myself and get a first-hand feel for this new "wonder steel".
I don't have any scientific testing regimen. I figure the truest test of any tool is to just use it as if nothing had changed and see how the performance compares to the previous configuration.
My knife gets used daily for all kinds of cutting but it's primary job is cutting up cardboard boxes and packaging. I receive shipments fairly regularly and if I don't stay on top of disposing of the packaging materials I quickly find myself "up to my ears" in boxes and stuff. We have a recycling bin for cardboard at the complex where my store is so it is convenient to keep the clutter down. The boxes must be collapsed or cut up to go into the bin. I like cutting them up into small pieces, (A shrink could probably make something of that), so the knife gets a good workout in that area. I also use the knife when I'm doing woodworking in my home shop where it does extra duty as a wood chisel, scraper and plane.
I used the knife for about six weeks before I needed to sharpen it. It wasn't dull but it had lost that fine keeness that makes these knives so exceptional. This performance wasn't that much better than the BG42 blade that I had replaced. It too performed this well with about the same interval between sharpening.
However, when it came to resharpening the S30V I really discovered the advantages of this steel. It "came back" on the Sharpmaker in record time. I spent less than a minute rehoning this blade with the fine (white) stones and it was back to out-of-the-box condition, just like that. I was amazed at the ease of resharpening this stuff.
With the BG42 I would have to spend much more time and frequently had to put the diamond sleeves on the sharpmaker to really get it back to original condition. I also noticed that the S30V had less tendancy to pick up "dings" on the edge than the BG42 when I accidently would strike metal or other hard material.
All-in-all, I have to say that I really think that this steel is a definite improvement over the BG42 when it comes to toughness and resarpenability when heat treated the way Chris does it in the 58-59RC range.
Taking it up to 60 and over would seem to be a waste of the effort and defeat purpose of developing this new steel. More brittle, harder to sharpen just like BG42. What would be the point?
I was as uninformed as the rest about the new steel so I started doing some research as soon as I could. Conversations with Chris and reading what information I could garner through trade pubs and internet sources, etc. was informative but I had no personal experience with the stuff so, last July, I sent my personal LS to Chris for a blade swap to S30V. That way I could try it for myself and get a first-hand feel for this new "wonder steel".
I don't have any scientific testing regimen. I figure the truest test of any tool is to just use it as if nothing had changed and see how the performance compares to the previous configuration.
My knife gets used daily for all kinds of cutting but it's primary job is cutting up cardboard boxes and packaging. I receive shipments fairly regularly and if I don't stay on top of disposing of the packaging materials I quickly find myself "up to my ears" in boxes and stuff. We have a recycling bin for cardboard at the complex where my store is so it is convenient to keep the clutter down. The boxes must be collapsed or cut up to go into the bin. I like cutting them up into small pieces, (A shrink could probably make something of that), so the knife gets a good workout in that area. I also use the knife when I'm doing woodworking in my home shop where it does extra duty as a wood chisel, scraper and plane.
I used the knife for about six weeks before I needed to sharpen it. It wasn't dull but it had lost that fine keeness that makes these knives so exceptional. This performance wasn't that much better than the BG42 blade that I had replaced. It too performed this well with about the same interval between sharpening.
However, when it came to resharpening the S30V I really discovered the advantages of this steel. It "came back" on the Sharpmaker in record time. I spent less than a minute rehoning this blade with the fine (white) stones and it was back to out-of-the-box condition, just like that. I was amazed at the ease of resharpening this stuff.
With the BG42 I would have to spend much more time and frequently had to put the diamond sleeves on the sharpmaker to really get it back to original condition. I also noticed that the S30V had less tendancy to pick up "dings" on the edge than the BG42 when I accidently would strike metal or other hard material.
All-in-all, I have to say that I really think that this steel is a definite improvement over the BG42 when it comes to toughness and resarpenability when heat treated the way Chris does it in the 58-59RC range.
Taking it up to 60 and over would seem to be a waste of the effort and defeat purpose of developing this new steel. More brittle, harder to sharpen just like BG42. What would be the point?
Thanks for the detailed reply Dennis. "Taking it up to 60 and over would seem to be a waste of the effort and defeat purpose of developing this new steel. More brittle, harder to sharpen just like BG42. What would be the point?..........I guess I have my answer to all this. "The point" would be to increase wear resistance or edge retention in our blade world speak. Sure it'll be tougher to sharpen, that's the wear resistance your working against. Basically you loose wear resistance as you increase toughness (decrease hardness). So if BG 42 was too hard to sharpen and possibly chipped in certain applications (I never chop with a folding knife) than S30V IS an improvement. I personally appreciate the edge resistance (wear resistance) in BG 42 that by definition is superior to S30V at the expense of a tougher resharpen. S30V CAN'T best BG 42 in edge retention as given by their respective Rockwell hardnesses in this application, Rc58-59 and Rc60-61. I just wish it was an option with CR knives that both were still available.
- Joined
- Dec 14, 1998
- Messages
- 4,870
Yes!
S30v is an improvement over bg42.
It is tough yet will re - sharpen nicely.
It is a mix between the old 3V and s90v.
S90V is much tougher. It is harder to sharpen...
The heat treat on the S30v is very important.
Crucible's heat treating specs leave much to be desired.
I use my own method to get 59 rc...
S30v is an improvement over bg42.
It is tough yet will re - sharpen nicely.
It is a mix between the old 3V and s90v.
S90V is much tougher. It is harder to sharpen...
The heat treat on the S30v is very important.
Crucible's heat treating specs leave much to be desired.
I use my own method to get 59 rc...
- Joined
- Jan 19, 1999
- Messages
- 842
Rockwell hardness isn't the only determining factor when it comes to edge retention. Wear resistance as determined by grain structure and toughness is as essential, if not more so, as hardness for edge retention. Consequently it isn't, necessarily, axiomatic that BG42 has better edge holding characteristics simply due to it's higher hardness. As Darrel says, it's all in the heat treatment.
What I was trying to say was that if raising the hardness on S30V to RC60 or above would reduce toughness to that of BG42, increase the effort that it takes to sharpen it to the same as BG42 and not result in significantly higher edge retention, then what would be the point of using S30V? Why not just stick with BG42? The effort would be wasted on S30V if there was not a significant improvement in, at least some of the areas.
Personally, as related above, having used both steels I don't see any real advantage in edge retention with BG42 over the S30V as provided by CRK. I saw pretty much the same performance with both blades and found the S30V significantly easier to sharpen. That, plus it's superior toughness, puts me pretty solid into the S30V camp.
Having said all that, however, I do agree with you that it would be good if BG42 were an option. That makes sense, if nothing else, from a sales point of view. There are lots of folks who, like you, aren't totally sold on the new metal and would prefer the option of having their knife made with BG42. I've had several requests for that very option. I would love to be able to fulfill those requests.
What I was trying to say was that if raising the hardness on S30V to RC60 or above would reduce toughness to that of BG42, increase the effort that it takes to sharpen it to the same as BG42 and not result in significantly higher edge retention, then what would be the point of using S30V? Why not just stick with BG42? The effort would be wasted on S30V if there was not a significant improvement in, at least some of the areas.
Personally, as related above, having used both steels I don't see any real advantage in edge retention with BG42 over the S30V as provided by CRK. I saw pretty much the same performance with both blades and found the S30V significantly easier to sharpen. That, plus it's superior toughness, puts me pretty solid into the S30V camp.
Having said all that, however, I do agree with you that it would be good if BG42 were an option. That makes sense, if nothing else, from a sales point of view. There are lots of folks who, like you, aren't totally sold on the new metal and would prefer the option of having their knife made with BG42. I've had several requests for that very option. I would love to be able to fulfill those requests.
- Joined
- Dec 14, 1998
- Messages
- 4,870
Dennis,
BG42 is good steel. So is 440C, ats34, etc.
The upgrade that S30v can offer performance wise that I have found with my own heat treat is ... I can cut soft steel with it. When I try this with BG42 the edge will not take the shock.
The edge retention on the S30V ... with the heat treat I use is superior to the Bg42 by about 5-8 percent. There are too many variables to make a high tech comparison but I try to get most of the test blades as close as possible.
The bending range on the S30V is much better. The shock at the edge cutting soft steel bar (1/4 x 3/8) is much better with S30V. I drove the blade through the bars several times before it gave out.
I know this seems over the top for a blade...
BUT I like to think the blade will cut through a zipper if it has to.
I like both steels. The S30V is tougher. Holds a great edge on this end anyway.
Heat treat is EVERYTHING!
BG42 is good steel. So is 440C, ats34, etc.
The upgrade that S30v can offer performance wise that I have found with my own heat treat is ... I can cut soft steel with it. When I try this with BG42 the edge will not take the shock.
The edge retention on the S30V ... with the heat treat I use is superior to the Bg42 by about 5-8 percent. There are too many variables to make a high tech comparison but I try to get most of the test blades as close as possible.
The bending range on the S30V is much better. The shock at the edge cutting soft steel bar (1/4 x 3/8) is much better with S30V. I drove the blade through the bars several times before it gave out.
I know this seems over the top for a blade...
BUT I like to think the blade will cut through a zipper if it has to.
I like both steels. The S30V is tougher. Holds a great edge on this end anyway.
Heat treat is EVERYTHING!
- Joined
- Jan 19, 1999
- Messages
- 842
Darrel
I agree that BG42 is a good steel. In fact, until S30V came along I considered it to be about the best in the stain resistant category.
I also know that ATS34 and 440C are great performers when the heat treatment is right but that it is very easy to to get the heat treat wrong with these steels, especially ATS34.
In my use the edge retention of the S30V seemed to be about the same as the BG42 but I haven't done any scientific testing as I'm not equipped for that so your results are very interesting. As I said earlier, I'm pretty much sold on S30V and your data helps to confirm that opinion. Thanks.
Yep, heat treat is the key. If it isn't right it doesn't matter which formula is used.
I agree that BG42 is a good steel. In fact, until S30V came along I considered it to be about the best in the stain resistant category.
I also know that ATS34 and 440C are great performers when the heat treatment is right but that it is very easy to to get the heat treat wrong with these steels, especially ATS34.
In my use the edge retention of the S30V seemed to be about the same as the BG42 but I haven't done any scientific testing as I'm not equipped for that so your results are very interesting. As I said earlier, I'm pretty much sold on S30V and your data helps to confirm that opinion. Thanks.
Yep, heat treat is the key. If it isn't right it doesn't matter which formula is used.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 1999
- Messages
- 842
Sorry. Double post.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
Dennis Wright :
That is only true if the material you are cutting is capable of readily wearing steel from the blade, and/or you like you let your knives get *very* blunt before sharpening them. On most materials like carboard, ropes, foods etc., the edge will roll and blunt down to 5% of optimal with little wear. It can then be brought back to 100% with a few passes on a smooth steel which illustrates that little wear was induced which is also easily clearly visible under magnification. The property which contributes most to edge retention in this manner is strength which is more highly correlated to hardness than carbide structure. After the steeling the cutting can be repeated, and the process continued for several cycles until enough material has been worn off the edge to merit a honing.
Assuming you are applying a secondary bevel with the Sharpmaker, any steel steel will act like that unless it has corroded, fractured or significantly impacted. Taking a blade from ~5% of optimal to 100% is just a few passes on whatever grit you desire. A secondary bevel removes only a few microns of material from the edge. I have done this with S90V at 59 RC, D2 at 62 RC, and CPM-10V at 62/63 RC. If you are of the opinion that it is extremely difficult to remove that minimal an amount of steel from a knife, regardless of steel, take the edge and cut right into the hone with the same force you use to sharpen. Note how readily the material is hogged off of the edge.
-Cliff
That is only true if the material you are cutting is capable of readily wearing steel from the blade, and/or you like you let your knives get *very* blunt before sharpening them. On most materials like carboard, ropes, foods etc., the edge will roll and blunt down to 5% of optimal with little wear. It can then be brought back to 100% with a few passes on a smooth steel which illustrates that little wear was induced which is also easily clearly visible under magnification. The property which contributes most to edge retention in this manner is strength which is more highly correlated to hardness than carbide structure. After the steeling the cutting can be repeated, and the process continued for several cycles until enough material has been worn off the edge to merit a honing.
Assuming you are applying a secondary bevel with the Sharpmaker, any steel steel will act like that unless it has corroded, fractured or significantly impacted. Taking a blade from ~5% of optimal to 100% is just a few passes on whatever grit you desire. A secondary bevel removes only a few microns of material from the edge. I have done this with S90V at 59 RC, D2 at 62 RC, and CPM-10V at 62/63 RC. If you are of the opinion that it is extremely difficult to remove that minimal an amount of steel from a knife, regardless of steel, take the edge and cut right into the hone with the same force you use to sharpen. Note how readily the material is hogged off of the edge.
-Cliff
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2000
- Messages
- 6,104
Cliff,
Personally, I'll put steel composition ahead of a few Rockwell points any day. All you have to do is look at various steels at the same hardness to know that it's the steel that determines toughness, strength, and wear resistance.
It may be "the property that contributes most", but it is only one factor.
Personally, I'll put steel composition ahead of a few Rockwell points any day. All you have to do is look at various steels at the same hardness to know that it's the steel that determines toughness, strength, and wear resistance.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
OwenM :
Which accounts for the type of blunting described in the above to such a degree that the rest of the factors are ignored. Hardness is also the critical factor in many durability issues. For example it directly controls the level of indendation through impaction, as this is exactly what it measures.
Strength is very critical to RC they are highly linear correlated, small changes to RC can swamp out huge alloy changes. Impact toughness is also very sensitive to RC. A small change of 1-2 points of hardness can cause changes of 100% in toughness, larger changes can make an inherently tough steel very brittle, steel composition can however induce great impact toughness changes as well so it is also very critical in that regard. Ductility is also strongly correlated to RC but also dependent on steel composition in a similar manner to impact toughness.
Wear resistance and corrosion resistance are far more steel dependent, RC is only a small factor can can usually be ignored. Where it is a factor, it isn't the hardness directly that effects the properties but the underlying change in carbide content that the particular heat treating scheme induced. In particular for wear resistance, where Vanadium is a carbide former, wear resistance can be simplified to a direct proportion to the percentage of vanadium carbide as it is so much harder than the other carbides it swamps them all out.
In short, in many aspects of knife performance hardness is the dominant factor (edge denting / rolling) and small differences can induce large changes in the performance of the steel. In other areas of performance it is still critical and the right hardness is necessary to optomize a steels performance (impact toughness, ductility). Some performance aspects are also nearly independent of hardness (wear resistance, corrosion resistance and heat resistance).
The entire spectrum of performance becomes optimal when the steel is chosen which has the best combination of properties (which means the tasks for the knife have to be well defined and understood), the steel is treated to maximize these abilities, the blade ground so as to maximize cutting ability with the necessary functional level of durability and minimize sharpening time, and the handle crafted so as to be comfortable with the necessary level of security.
In any of these factors are significantly off, the performance of the knife can be gutted regardless of the rest of the aspects.
-Cliff
Which accounts for the type of blunting described in the above to such a degree that the rest of the factors are ignored. Hardness is also the critical factor in many durability issues. For example it directly controls the level of indendation through impaction, as this is exactly what it measures.
Strength is very critical to RC they are highly linear correlated, small changes to RC can swamp out huge alloy changes. Impact toughness is also very sensitive to RC. A small change of 1-2 points of hardness can cause changes of 100% in toughness, larger changes can make an inherently tough steel very brittle, steel composition can however induce great impact toughness changes as well so it is also very critical in that regard. Ductility is also strongly correlated to RC but also dependent on steel composition in a similar manner to impact toughness.
Wear resistance and corrosion resistance are far more steel dependent, RC is only a small factor can can usually be ignored. Where it is a factor, it isn't the hardness directly that effects the properties but the underlying change in carbide content that the particular heat treating scheme induced. In particular for wear resistance, where Vanadium is a carbide former, wear resistance can be simplified to a direct proportion to the percentage of vanadium carbide as it is so much harder than the other carbides it swamps them all out.
In short, in many aspects of knife performance hardness is the dominant factor (edge denting / rolling) and small differences can induce large changes in the performance of the steel. In other areas of performance it is still critical and the right hardness is necessary to optomize a steels performance (impact toughness, ductility). Some performance aspects are also nearly independent of hardness (wear resistance, corrosion resistance and heat resistance).
The entire spectrum of performance becomes optimal when the steel is chosen which has the best combination of properties (which means the tasks for the knife have to be well defined and understood), the steel is treated to maximize these abilities, the blade ground so as to maximize cutting ability with the necessary functional level of durability and minimize sharpening time, and the handle crafted so as to be comfortable with the necessary level of security.
In any of these factors are significantly off, the performance of the knife can be gutted regardless of the rest of the aspects.
-Cliff
.........ohh what a can of worms that has been opened!!!! " A crappy hard steel will wear better than a high quality softer steel every time"...HARDNESS is first on the list for wear resistance (edge retention) the other considerations are important but second to this MOST important factor in this specific property. It's the whole point I was trying to establish at the beginning of this thread and my assumption that this new wunderkind CPMS30V is more attractive to knifMAKERS than it is to knife users in at least the consideration of edge retention is concerned.That attraction being that it is more fab friendly.
Thanks to all for the fine technical info. Now I know why the small Sebenza I bought on an impulse at the gun show Saturday was on sale. It's a 1/02 model. And no, I don't feel bad about it at all. I got a good deal on a great knife.
Thinking I'd buy a diamond bench stone to sharpen an old ax, I noticed this fine looking pocket knife while I was asking for advice. I suddenly realized that I was very tired of my (go on, laugh) medium Beretta folder, I bought what looked to me to be the best similar-sized knife he had. The more I use it the more I like it. It won't replace my carry guns, but I now see what I've been missing.
Believe it or not, the dealer tried a couple of times to talk me down to a more 'reasonable' price level. He was likely the most honest guy at the show.
Thanks again, I really have enjoyed the discussion.
John
It's a 1/02 model. And no, I don't feel bad about it at all. I got a good deal on a great knife.Thinking I'd buy a diamond bench stone to sharpen an old ax, I noticed this fine looking pocket knife while I was asking for advice. I suddenly realized that I was very tired of my (go on, laugh) medium Beretta folder, I bought what looked to me to be the best similar-sized knife he had. The more I use it the more I like it. It won't replace my carry guns, but I now see what I've been missing.
Believe it or not, the dealer tried a couple of times to talk me down to a more 'reasonable' price level. He was likely the most honest guy at the show.
Thanks again, I really have enjoyed the discussion.
John