S30V titanium framelocks - the best for the $?

I'm with you tirod - the 172 is one of the nicest production framelocks out there. I gave mine to my Dad and have wanted another since then.
 
Let me be right out in front: I've carried a SnG exclusivley for the last year. I believe it is the best utility knife made. I bought it because the Tarani SBT Buck made in 420J and FRN was decidedly flawed, and I said so at the time. I called it my "delayed action closer."

The 172 I got came at a steep discount because it was a replacement and the previous owner was still not satisified with the ball detent - which, on this knife, just doesn't work. But it's tip down, has a very recessed blade, and I don't believe it will be a problem.

Does Buck blow QC on some knives? I would say yes, indisputably. They don't mean to, it's just production reality. I've had other knives with issues - a Kershaw Boa that won't stay locked, a Spyderco Gen 1 with integral clip that loses tension, etc.

I'm glad to hear of someone actually using their Sebenza for EDC and harder use - but the last thread on Sebenza I got into, the major respondent just talked and talked about food prep, and another got into cutting soft copper wire. I don't recommend knives as sharp prybars, but it sounded pretty lame to claim how tough the Sebenza was by a description of making a sandwich. Glad to hear someone using hard enough to scratch it up. I don't argue that CRK has never seemed to sell a knife that isn't 100%. I wish more could.

My SnG looks scratched up, but not as bad as I thought. The clip is wearing down rounded shoulders where I bump up against metal tables in CNC. The blade is has rust pits where I forgot to wipe off something, and the G10 is getting the "pocketworn" look on the square edges.

One thing I like about the Buck is the profiled handles. Quite comfortable, no real hotspots so far, and the bead blast grips well. I expect it will shed scratches easily because the finish is not smooth slick and as vulnerable - scratches will just hit the highlights. It's the same effect as metal german uniform snaps - they stay relatively subdued. Bead blast TI seems to have that quality.

The hollow grind is a Buck thing, I prefer flat ground. But the convex edge is superior to the SnG in initial sharpness! I said hair popping sharp because it is - the SnG was just ok. How it keeps that edge is something else, but it is every bit as sharp as any Spyderco I've owned.

In the day, all knives had handle materials that were anything but molded. Since the invention of FRN and use on the Gerber LST, which was a wonderful and inexpensive knife, I now see it used on lots of much more expensive knives, hence the comment. Frankly, I see it as a weak, inexpensive material that has no place on anything over $25. With chinese imports using the higher grade 6 material that replicates G10 and acts like it, for a rock bottom price, I no longer buy it. It's just a marketers dream material to make injection molded handles and charge far more than they're worth. Really, what is the most despised knife made? A brightly colored FRN handle with mystery "surgical steel" blade. These things get thrown out with the Xmas trash.

The Buck Mayo TNT isn't the handfilling takes-on-all-comers blade the SnG is, but for those more genteel moments, it certainly has more style than the Sebenza, and from the comments here, looks like it will put up with harder use, just because more people will. If you have so much "invested" in a knife you keep it in a leather slipcase, it's really a pocket queen, not a EDC tool. Kinda like an engraved gold plated hammer, it really belongs on a shelf behind your desk at work.

Kudos to those who use the tool, not worship it.
 
A while ago I was under the lure of the sebenza and finally made up my mind to get one. I was looking at sebenzas on the CR website and thinking how much better they look with at least micarta inlays or better yet cocobolo, yum. While I'm digesting the prices, I look down and see double thumblug as an option. Being ambidextrous I thought yep gotta have those too and I look at the price - $35. All of a sudden the whole deal just seemed like a shake down and the lure vanished. I remember thinking, wow I could practically by a kershaw leek for the cost of that thumblug. Later that day I ended up buying a used BM 710D2 for $86 from a member here on the forums and couldn't be happier. I mean that knife growls at me if I don't give it enough work. I will say that after reading this thread both the Buck Mayo and the Bradley are starting to call to me. Both for less than the cost of a sebenza.
 
Can someone link me to this "Buck Mayo" please? A Google search shows a bunch of different ones.. some cheap.
 
Nice. Thank you. I was getting confused cause the very similar model 171 and 172... then there are the really cheap ones with a slightly similar look as well.
 
Production-wise my vote goes to the Ti Bumps

Custom - It's hard to beat the price/quality of a good Hinderer or Obenauf framelock.

The Buck Mayo was too thin and delicate feeling to me. Reminded me of a WH in that respect. Mine came dull too.

The BM Mini Skirmish is nice but I absolutly hate the smoothed out holes for opening them. Slippery as heck, not good.

Sebbies are ok but to me suffer from grey turd syndrom. The ones I have left are decorated but I still carry my Bumps much more than the Sebbies.

Never held an alias.
 
So how about if I throw the CRK Mnandi in the mix too?

S30V with a Ti framelock... good value?

Definitely not as versatile or tough as any of the other ones listed, but has intrinsic beauty value.

What do you guys think?
 
I wonder what I perceive with a knife with flat slab handles and one contoured. While slab handles do seem sturdier, the same knife with contoured handles should still perform within the material strength envelope without failure. Delicate feeling is subjective - looking at the expanse of drilled titanium, I see strength beyond that of plastic, wood, brass or bone. So my perception is that the ti is stronger than most others. A different subject is whether we actually need it.

The Mnandi is nice - but like the Sebenza comments, you're going to have a hard time assessing it's real utility until users step up and treat it as a tool. Then maybe we'll start hearing about it.
 
brownshoe said:
Mr. J#####



Edited to add: I read your profile and now I understand where you're coming from. I will not engage you in any more discussion. Not worth the time.
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Hmm, that's funny. I did a little reading myself, and it seems where you are coming from is clear as well. I think I'm the one wasting time.

As far as the real topic, I have used and handled many framelocks, and many were very nice. Something that puts me off is wear. I don't like expensive knives getting shaky and wiggly with use. It has happened to every knife I have ever full on EDCed except for my Spyderco Dodo, and my Sebenza. I attribute this to the tight tolerances, superior quality, and most importantly, the pivot bushing system CRK uses. At this point, I won't buy another folder that doesn't present that kind of quality as well as implementing the solidarity of the pivot bushing. The price is worth the dependability.

Tirod,

I assure you, the Sebenza is a user and has many subtle features that make it an outstanding one, at that. All you have to do is take one apart, clean it, and put it back together to know there is something very special about it.
 
Step one - Buy ZDP-189 Leek
Step two - email Kershaw and ask for a Random Leek blade
Step three - send to Kershaw and have them replace ZDP-189 blade with Random Leek blade
Step four - wait patiently, about 10 days or so you'll have one of the most amazing knives you'll ever carry. And as far as I know, only one other person has one other than myself.

The blade and handle match in color, it's light to carry (titanium handle), thin to pocket, stronger than a normal Leek (because of reverse-tanto), oh, and I forgot to mention it's as sharp as a Sebenza!!!!!

AWESOME!
Ryan
 
brownshoe said:
"stone washed" is still a cheap way out of giving an expensive knife a finish. Many people have this problem with the sebenza...do some research.
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That's really a personal opinion...it's actually a very attractive finish and cost is beside the point: The stonewashed finish is used because of the fact that the Sebenza is meant to be a hard use/every day carry work knife. That being the circumstance, the stone wash is appropriate as it doesn't really show scratches and other marks from harder use simply making it look cleaner longer. If you want a prettier knife you can get one of the inlay or graphic models or just elect to have a polished blade put on your knife (or have the blade polished). As a work knife, I've used both stonewashed and polished and the stonewashed is definitely the better of the two if you don't want to have the scars show. Right now I'm carrying one with a polished blade and don't mind it being scratched up....it stood up pretty well today while popping metal pallet strapping with only a couple minor scratched to add on ;)

It's really all about preference though....I happen to really like the Sebenza and have had it in most of the major configurations (had an inlay, had the regular/classic/small/large, graphic, LE) I think the value is there...it's simply a knife you can carry for the rest of your life. After years and years of use the blade still centers and doesn't have any play...same with the lock: there's some good threads on this. Also some good threads on sebs that had locking wear that had the locking side replaced free of charge. CRK really backs up their product and a great product it is. Like everything else it's not for everyone though.

I've never held or seen a Buck Mayo, but I'll have to change that the next time I got to the knife store. It looks like a nice knife and sounds like some good material to boot. I've always liked Buck....got my first 110 from a parking lot sale when I was a kid and they were still here in SD :D
 
it stood up pretty well today while popping metal pallet strapping with only a couple minor scratches to add on

And this was a Sebenza???:eek:


How do you perform that job? Aside from "Where's the tin snips?", I can imagine how I'd do it, but would like to hear your process.
 
tirod3 said:
it stood up pretty well today while popping metal pallet strapping with only a couple minor scratches to add on

And this was a Sebenza???:eek:


How do you perform that job? Aside from "Where's the tin snips?", I can imagine how I'd do it, but would like to hear your process.
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Well, first of all :p I work for the Postal Service....so of course, they're a bit cheap when it comes to equipment for employees. We've got one pair of tin snips in the whole P&D Plant and I don't feel like walking a mile and spending a half hour hunting them down which is what would be the case :D. If the banding is on tight, I just slip the knife through and lever it (pivoting with the tip) upward popping the strap...it doesn't damage my knife though it slightly dulls it and depending on how I do it it REALLY dulls it, but it's easy enough to clean up with some steels and 1200 grit paper in a couple minutes.

When the straps are loose, I just take a short metal bar (about a foot and a half) and twist it through the strapping til it breaks.

Popping the straps works way better with my EDC sized Busse knives than a Sebenza as they're much tougher....the Sebenza can hold it's own though. CRK knows what they're doing :D:thumbup:
 
Yep, just what I thought.

We get 1/4" plate laser cut parts on pallets, and they are pretty tight. I've used the technique you describe to cut plastic strap, but in my present case, each work station has their own tin snips.

Having done a stint of rural delivery, I certainly understand your solution.
 
J85909266 said:
Hmm, that's funny. I did a little reading myself, and it seems where you are coming from is clear as well. I think I'm the one wasting time.

As far as the real topic, I have used and handled many framelocks, and many were very nice. Something that puts me off is wear. I don't like expensive knives getting shaky and wiggly with use. It has happened to every knife I have ever full on EDCed except for my Spyderco Dodo, and my Sebenza. I attribute this to the tight tolerances, superior quality, and most importantly, the pivot bushing system CRK uses. At this point, I won't buy another folder that doesn't present that kind of quality as well as implementing the solidarity of the pivot bushing. The price is worth the dependability.

Tirod,

I assure you, the Sebenza is a user and has many subtle features that make it an outstanding one, at that. All you have to do is take one apart, clean it, and put it back together to know there is something very special about it.
Click to expand...


So who else besides CRK uses pivot bushings?
 
my fav ti handle/frame lock /S30V knives are either a strider SnG or though its not a frame lock per se a spyderco Ti ATR, the compression lock is similar and imho would be as good as a frame lock.

imho the Ti ATR was an excellent knife overlooked by the masses, i have 3 and i dont do a lot of production stuff anymore, in fact, i would say the spyderco Ti ATR is my favorite production knife.

too bad they disco'd it, they were pretty pricey though, but IIRC i paid ~$200 for all mine so ya didnt have to pay retail, which was IIRC ~$350.
 
Mr. Sifu1A, the Titanium ATR was spyderco's shot across the Sebenza's bow since it is a US made Ti handled S30V blade. Unfortunately it had production errors and many of the knives were flawed and not worth the price tag. If you've got 3 good ones, you're lucky. The price was originally about $300 but dropped to less than 200 before they were gone. These mistakes led to it being canned. It was reborn as a steel handled ATR made in Japan. Some feel this is just another indication that the Spyderco factory in US is not up to making top production grade knives. I believe the steel handled knife also has been canceled, but I am not sure of the reason. Spyderco has no current production knife with Ti handles. Probably because the US factory can't handle Ti and with the current exchange rate, it'd be real costly to make in Japan.
 
I had a 172, but gave it away as a present. I have a habit of resting my thumb over my pocketed knives and the 172 has a couple of sharp spots that irritated me. Otherwise, very good knife. My personal favorite for the money is an Alias II. Mine has good fit and finish, strong lock up, and no blade play when opened. The ergonomics are excellent. My only criticism is that it is a little harder to open than my Sebenza and my Mike Obenauf, the latter of which is superior to any other framelock I own, or have owned.
 
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