S30V titanium framelocks - the best for the $?

[SIFU1A]

Mr. Sifu1A, the Titanium ATR was spyderco's shot across the Sebenza's bow since it is a US made Ti handled S30V blade. Unfortunately it had production errors and many of the knives were flawed and not worth the price tag. If you've got 3 good ones, you're lucky. The price was originally about $300 but dropped to less than 200 before they were gone. These mistakes led to it being canned. It was reborn as a steel handled ATR made in Japan. Some feel this is just another indication that the Spyderco factory in US is not up to making top production grade knives. I believe the steel handled knife also has been canceled, but I am not sure of the reason. Spyderco has no current production knife with Ti handles. Probably because the US factory can't handle Ti and with the current exchange rate, it'd be real costly to make in Japan.

i havent ever heard any of that, imho it didnt have anything to do w/a seb, it was originally designed as a knife for glock, try to find one now for less than $200 lol. i do know that imho the ti ATR is a LOT better knife than a seb, i carried my ATR quite a bit but VERY rarely carry my seb, i just dont really care for them myself(i suppose that puts me in a minority, but i just dont see the big deal about them). i do know the very early Ti ATRs had detent problems but that was worked out very early in the run. i have NEVER heard negative stuff about the ATR, not ever and i check out the spydie forum daily, if there were so many bad ones floating around ya would think that some of the owners would post problems they have on that forum, but no, i never saw any of that. where in the world did ya get this info??

i have had 2 of the SS ATRs too and also had good luck with them,

as far as spyderco not being up to making top production grade knives, again, we must agree to disagree.

i do agree ti is expensive now, and hard to get, thats imho why they dont make any ti knives right now, not that they cant handle it lol.

 

[spinynorman]

Kudos to those who use the tool, not worship it.

This, in the same post where we are treated to a long rant about the supposed evils of FRN. I do not know what to be more impressed by - the silliness of these remarks appearing in a single post, or the hypocrisy.

 

[Shavin' Sharp]

Mayo TNT is in stock a lot of places for 189. Too, short of a blade and IMO my Blade-Tech Rijbak with its Ti frame lock very heavy 3 -3/4" SV30 blade for less money can't be beat. It's got every bit the blade a ZT0200 has and I have and like both but Rijbak is the ultimate ti frame lock. My thread "didn't need it but...." shows the Rijbak and ZT0200 side by side. (I have never seen a frame lock with as precise fitting and full on thickness exactly behind the front of the blade tang near close to this Blade-Tech)

Thanks for your great comments Jill, we set out to make a great frame lock... and I believe we did!

 

[CaptInsano]

Production-wise my vote goes to the Ti Bumps

It's purty too.

 

[Slatts]

I've owned Sebenzas, Skirmishes, Aliases, TNTs, Ti Bumps, and probably a few other TI framelocks.

The Titanium framelocks are my favorite knife style. I've never found one I didn't like. I just like some more than others.

Personal favorite... Sebenzas
Most often in my pocket... Mini Skirmish 635-503
Best Value... Alias II
Most intriguing but not carried.... Ti Bump

 

[tirod3]

This, in the same post where we are treated to a long rant about the supposed evils of FRN. I do not know what to be more impressed by - the silliness of these remarks appearing in a single post, or the hypocrisy.

If you care to elaborate - which I did about the deficiencies of FRN - maybe I could understand your point beyond just trashing another's opinion.

I complained about the weakness of FRN from the marketing view. In addition, it has physical problems due to the nature of the material. It's nylon first - like in rope, which is not known for a resistance to bending. It also cold flows, assuming a different shape according to the stress it's put under.
My Endura had problems with this, and the integral clip became weak - all which have been addressed in later generations. Liners and metal clips were used to beef up stress points. The fiberglass content in American FRN is just too low to adequately strengthen the material. It certainly shouldn't command a premium at retail - it's about the cheapest stuff out there.

Connecting that to my comment on those who use tools, not worship them, is a stretch I never implied. Posts often contain separate, discrete ideas that are sometimes contained in different sentences at different places in the post. My point about using the tool is an oblique reference to the typical Sebenza responder who brags that their knife is the best in the world, without using it for actual knife chores beyond food prep and pocket jewelry.

Cutting metal pallet strapping is a bit on the extreme side - but the Sebenza does seem to handle it as necessary, something lesser knives could fail to do - like a 400 ss FRN cheapie.

 

[knarfeng]

Gol darn it tirod, I thought we had this out last year.

FRN does not "cold flow" at temperatures less than 120°F, which is the glass transition temp for 66 Nylon. FRN gets a reputation in the engineering realm for cold flow because it is often used at temperatures above the glass transition temperature, but below the "Heat Deflection Temperature". The "heat Deflection temperature" is the standard use temp for non-structural plastics. But Nylon, if put under enough stress will "cold flow" at temperatures below that temp. HOWEVER, it will not cold flow at temperatures below the glass transition temperature.

So unless you use your knife at temperatures over 120F and subject it to one hell of a lot of pressure, the FRN will not cold flow.

 

[spinynorman]

The fiberglass content in American FRN is just too low...

Love it. As if there's a single flavor of American FRN, another of Swiss FRN, yet another from Chile... that's some derned sophisticated materials analysis yer doin' there, sport.

 

[Scott Dog]

I think the Sebenza offers the most value in a S30V framelock. It does what I want in a knife and I like it. In fact I like it better than all of the custom framelocks I have including my Mayos and Obenaufs. Brownshoe I think you are being too hard on CRK and too generous with Buck. Many of your complaints about the Sebenza are subjective so I feel it isn't fair to call you a liar. My current EDC (large left hand classic Micarta inlay half serrated Sebenza) cost more than many of the nice "custom" folders I own. For me as a southpaw, the Buck 172 isn't an option as they are all made right handed. The Sebbie does what I want, I like it, I like dealing with CRK and I don't mind spending the money on their products.

 

[tirod3]

Knarfeng,

Sorry if I still use the term incorrectly. I am trying to communicate that the material bends under stress - like being clipped in a pocket - which causes it to move into a new, temporary shape. The example in this case was to squeeze the slabs together until they touched the blade, and force the clip into a position that negates gripping the pocket - so that it slides out when sitting down. Give it two-three days, it returns to the molded condition.

Spyderco addressed that and solved the problems, other than telling me how to describe it in an accurate phrase. I appreciate your detailed reply. What do I call that particular characteristic?

Foreign makers are using a higher glass content FRN which is difficult to visually distinguish from G10 - it's that dry and stiff. Glass content in FRN is the main variable that determines it's strength and how it's used, from knife handles to truck tool boxes, etc. Just something I ran across in the forums, spiny, as reported by a maker importing from Asia.

 

[brownshoe]

Tirod, that was your post 777 and I see you're in MO. It's your lucky day, go to the boats

 

[knarfeng]

I gots no fancy term for it. It can happen if the handle was molded using an incorrect temperature profile leaving latent stresses in the handle. Another possibility for taking a set would be if the material gets torqued as it is mounted and it is reacting to the stress. Either way, it is a production flaw rather than an inherent material characteristic that has a name.

You are correct that there are various grades of FRN and the higher the glass content, the stiffer the material. But I don't know what grades anyone is using.