Sanrenmu 7010 vs CRKT Drifter

[bryan123]

Hi everybody, OP here.

Here's an example of how little China cares about intellectual property:

When the communists took over the country and nationalized foreign holdings, the Parker Pen Factory in Shanghai was immediately changed into the HERO PEN COMPANY OF THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC. Some Hero pens that are based on the Parker 51 which is arguably the best fountain pen ever made. Heros are nice pens. Nothing Parker can do about it unfortunately.

 

[trevitrace]

Don't buy Hero pens. Check.

 

[PURPLEDC]

C'mon PURPLE...at least YOU usually don't resort to that kind of lame response. I actually appreciate your perspective (even when we disagree).

That was just pot stirring.

Homie i forgot the emoji. I was just crackin a joke. No harm intended and i apologize.

 

[Stregone]

Invented first:
Blackie Collin's Bolt Lock (public domain) = bullet-shaped bolt aligned longitudinally against the rear of the blade to prevent negative (closing) pressure by means of a spring pressing (against the bolt) longitudinally with the blade direction.

Developed later:
Benchmade's Axis Lock (patented) = bar aligned perpendicularly against the rear of the blade to prevent negative (closing) pressure by means of a spring pressing (against the bar) longitudinally with the blade direction.
Spyderco's Ball Bearing Lock (patented) = ball bearing resting against the rear of the blade to prevent negative (closing) pressure by means of a spring pressing (against the ball bearing) longitudinally with the blade direction.
G. & G. Hawk's DOG Lock (patented) = ramp aligned longitudinally against the rear of the blade to prevent negative (closing) pressure by means of a spring pressing (against the ramp) longitudinally with the blade direction.

A quick google tells me that the axis lock patent has expired, is this not the case?

 

[craytab]

A quick google tells me that the axis lock patent has expired, is this not the case?

Depends on who you ask. It is very complicated. I believe they keep getting extensions. We won't really know until it is challenged in court.

 

[SpySmasher]

The Triad is in the same situation. I believe it is due to expire soon but the word on the street is that they've made enough small modifications that they'll probably get an extension.

 

[davek14]

United States patent law is authorized by the U.S. Constitution. Article One, section 8, clause 8 states:

The Congress shall have power ... To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

 

[craytab]

United States patent law is authorized by the U.S. Constitution. Article One, section 8, clause 8 states:

The Congress shall have power ... To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

 

[davek14]

 

[craytab]

United States patent law is authorized by the U.S. Constitution. Article One, section 8, clause 8 states:

The Congress shall have power ... To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

Quoting our constitution in your continued defense of cloning is not only insulting and disrespectful, it also makes you look ignorant.

 

[LastRodeo]

Quoting the Constitution which gives us the right of Freedom of Speech is disrespectful to whom exactly?

Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't take away their right to express their view.

And for all of you the think the law is black and white and not subject to interpretation, you are not familiar with the Judicial branch of government, whose role is to interpret the laws set forth by Congress.

 

[Hackenslash]

Using Article 1 of the Constitution to define patent laws is kind of like trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer...and missing .

Patent law is so complex and convoluted, you can't possibly take such a simplified approach to it. That's why patent attorneys are some of the highest paid lawyers in the world.

We've dug through the patents and extensions and re-filings on the Axis Lock to the point of ad nauseam on this forum and always arrive at the point where we just don't know for sure, but I might just still be in force until sometime later this year. Do a search and you can follow the same rabbit hole we all have. As Cray already said, the best evidence of it still being in effect to some degree is the LACK of Axis Locks on legit knife makers and no lost challenges in courts. It is, after all, one of the best locking mechanisms in the knife world.

 

[craytab]

Using Article 1 of the Constitution to define patent laws is kind of like trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer...and missing .

Patent law is so complex and convoluted, you can't possibly take such a simplified approach to it. That's why patent attorneys are some of the highest paid lawyers in the world.

We've dug through the patents and extensions and re-filings on the Axis Lock to the point of ad nauseam on this forum and always arrive at the point where we just don't know for sure, but I might just still be in force until sometime later this year. Do a search and you can follow the same rabbit hole we all have. As Cray already said, the best evidence of it still being in effect to some degree is the LACK of Axis Locks on legit knife makers and no lost challenges in courts. It is, after all, one of the best locking mechanisms in the knife world.

Very well stated. Patent law is a rabbit hole. Don't wrap cloning in our flag. It won't work as an argument for those who are in the least bit intelligent.

Further, this isn't the political area. Pay the proper membership and go there if you want to talk politics.

 

[LastRodeo]

I wasn't using Freedom of Speech as an argument for or against patent law. I was stating he had the right to express his viewpoint on the matter.

Calling him ignorant and disrespectful because he quoted the Constitution was wrong. I will defend personal rights and liberties long before IP law.

 

[evilgreg]

I will defend personal rights and liberties long before IP law.

+1 to that.

Also, the guy has a point. I'm all for people getting rewarded for their innovation, but our system that allows folks to pretty much extend IP protections in perpetuity is pretty much broken.

 

[LastRodeo]

As Cray already said, the best evidence of it still being in effect to some degree is the LACK of Axis Locks on legit knife makers and no lost challenges in courts. It is, after all, one of the best locking mechanisms in the knife world.

Just for fun, I have to challenge this. To my knowledge, to have lost in court in a patent dispute, a company would have to have "committed the crime". So a maker would have had to have used the Axis lock on one of their knives and been sued or it had never been challenged in court.

Evidence has been required previously in this thread, so evidence of the lost court challenge is being requested.

 

[craytab]

I wasn't using Freedom of Speech as an argument for or against patent law. I was stating he had the right to express his viewpoint on the matter.

Calling him ignorant and disrespectful because he quoted the Constitution was wrong. I will defend personal rights and liberties long before IP law.

First, he does not have US constitutional rights as a foreigner. Second, there is no freedom of speech here as this is a private forum. Third, i didn't call him ignorant. Fourth, he is a known counterfeit supporter and attempted to use our constitution to promote is agenda of foreign companies being able to rip off US companies which is not only illogical but also disrespectful to what the constitution and this country stands for. Last, I wasn't talking to you. Please take your misguided politics eleswhere.

 

[craytab]

Just for fun, I have to challenge this. To my knowledge, to have lost in court in a patent dispute, a company would have to have "committed the crime". So a maker would have had to have used the Axis lock on one of their knives and been sued or it had never been challenged in court.

Evidence has been required previously in this thread, so evidence of the lost court challenge is being requested.

Sigh....the claim is that there is no evidence and until there is we don't really know one way or the other. So your attempt at some weird evidence revenge is miss guided from the start.

Use the search function. This has been discussed many many times. No need to rehash the whole thing every time someone doesn't understand.

 

[LastRodeo]

The statement was that they had not lost a challenge in court. I requested evidence of the court case. Evidence to support claims was requested throughout this thread.

If there is no court case, the statement "The patent holder has never prevailed when challenged in court" would also be true.

I really don't have a dog in this fight, I just have a problem with the "facts" of some statements.

It sounds like you have a history with davek14, that I have no interest in getting in the middle of.

 

[LastRodeo]

On last thing, the fact that another legitimate maker is not making an exact copy of the Axis lock is not evidence of anything.

Here is a business lesson. A company wants to market their product as better than their competitors. It's lock is stronger, safer, etc.

When you make an exact copy, the only way to get market share is to be cheaper. You cut your price, your competition has to cut their price to get back lost market share. Prices and profits keep circling downward.

It is better business to invent a "ball lock" than to copy the Axis lock.

Another way to keep prices high is if all the competitors enforse MAP pricing. They can't conspire to do that though, as collusion laws exist.