SanRenMu goes Sandvik

[Planterz]

 

[stoffi]

Pics got the job done!

 

[Steel130]

Oops double post.

 

[Steel130]

So if SanRenMu is a knockoff company and Spyderco uses them to manufacture some of their blades. Then wouldnt buying Spyderco still br supporting a knockoff company? Unless the SanRenMi Spydies use arent making knockoffs anymore. Man im confused.

 

[Gadfly22]

My usual 2 cents:

1. None of Sanrenmu, Enlan, Ganzo or Navy market their US-brand-looking knives as though they are the US-brand originals. Doing that is counterfeiting and is clearly illegal. Those brands market under their own names, so you know what you are getting and aren't bamboozled.

2. Copying a knife design is not (to my knowledge) illegal and not (to my mind) immoral. If you see a grey pinstripe suit that's an original Armani and a grey pinstripe suit that looks like an Armani but says "Acme", no problem. Likewise the shirts many of us have with a little logo on the left. Maybe it's an alligator or a guy playing polo -- or not. But it's a copy of a design by a different company. No problem.

3. Trademark is a different issue. But I think there's some controversy about the validity of trying to turn the lapsed-patent functional Spydie hole into a protected trademark. It may be a "registered" trademark in the US, but not recognized elsewhere. But, in any event, the Chinese knives in question clearly announce that they are NOT Spyderco brand knives.

4. Likewise patent. The patented Benchmade AXIS (all caps) lock works in a specific and protected way. The Chinese company "Axis" (initial cap) may work in that same way and violate the patent -- or not, since I've never dissected them tp compare. They may work like a "bolt" lock or an Arc lock or by some other mechanism. But if patents are being violated, there are legal ways for a company to deal with the infringement. If they don't care enough to do so or there are other considerations (e.g., there's no infringement at all), I'm not obliged to be an enforcer.

5. You get what you pay for. The Chinese brand knives I have (about 25 of them) aren't uniformly great. But most are worth 3-4 times what I paid for them. But I don't have a warranty or get a really great steel or get a super smooth action. For those things, I buy Benchmade, Spyderco and Kershaw. And I buy lots of them, sometimes inspired by the Chinese version (specifically the Ganzo G710 made me buy a Benchmade Rift).

But everyone is entitled to their own preferences. For me, variety of knife options is an end in itself. For others, only top-quality knives will do.

 

[Steel130]

My usual 2 cents:

1. None of Sanrenmu, Enlan, Ganzo or Navy market their US-brand-looking knives as though they are the US-brand originals. Doing that is counterfeiting and is clearly illegal. Those brands market under their own names, so you know what you are getting and aren't bamboozled.

2. Copying a knife design is not (to my knowledge) illegal and not (to my mind) immoral. If you see a grey pinstripe suit that's an original Armani and a grey pinstripe suit that looks like an Armani but says "Acme", no problem. Likewise the shirts many of us have with a little logo on the left. Maybe it's an alligator or a guy playing polo -- or not. But it's a copy of a design by a different company. No problem.

3. Trademark is a different issue. But I think there's some controversy about the validity of trying to turn the lapsed-patent functional Spydie hole into a protected trademark. It may be a "registered" trademark in the US, but not recognized elsewhere. But, in any event, the Chinese knives in question clearly announce that they are NOT Spyderco brand knives.

4. Likewise patent. The patented Benchmade AXIS (all caps) lock works in a specific and protected way. The Chinese company "Axis" (initial cap) may work in that same way and violate the patent -- or not, since I've never dissected them tp compare. They may work like a "bolt" lock or an Arc lock or by some other mechanism. But if patents are being violated, there are legal ways for a company to deal with the infringement. If they don't care enough to do so or there are other considerations (e.g., there's no infringement at all), I'm not obliged to be an enforcer.

5. You get what you pay for. The Chinese brand knives I have (about 25 of them) aren't uniformly great. But most are worth 3-4 times what I paid for them. But I don't have a warranty or get a really great steel or get a super smooth action. For those things, I buy Benchmade, Spyderco and Kershaw. And I buy lots of them, sometimes inspired by the Chinese version (specifically the Ganzo G710 made me buy a Benchmade Rift).

But everyone is entitled to their own preferences. For me, variety of knife options is an end in itself. For others, only top-quality knives will do.

good points.

 

[flash900]

My usual 2 cents:
For me, variety of knife options is an end in itself. For others, only top-quality knives will do.

My problem is -- I can't decide which.

I keep buying Chinese, even though I'm disappointed with about half my purchases. (I usually buy two of each, figuring at least one will be unsatisfactory -- and I'm usually right.)

A recent order had two excellent cheapos -- a Sanrenmu GR 605 and an Elan M07. Both highly recommended.

But my latest order -- two Enlan M027s -- is disappointing. The folders look good, but neither opens or closes smoothly. Without knowing for sure, I can only say that they feel as though they have cheap washers.

Pity.

Which brings me to the Mingren 910 Plus.

This $36 folder is about the quality of a good Enlan but with a Sandvik steel.

Is it a knockoff? I wouldn't say so -- for one thing, it has a secondary lock.

Is it a knockout for the price? Again, I wouldn't say so.

The secondary lock on mine broke off after just a few openings. At first, the blade was stuck open but I managed to adjust it and now it works fine, without the secondary lock. It feels substantial and good in the hand.

But would I trust it? How much could you trust a knife that breaks on the first day?

 

[Gadfly22]

My problem is -- I can't decide which.

I agree 100% -- but I tend to buy the Chinese brands when I feel the knife-buying urge and just want something really inexpensive on a whim, without thinking too much about the pros and cons and the higher costs of a Spyderco or Benchmade.

I've been pretty lucky with my purchases, though the last couple of Navy knives came very dull, and another package opened in transit, and some rough G-10 scuffed up the micarta on the knife it was packaged with. But I choose to take those risks, so I can't complain.

But I'm now winding down (I hope) on a Benchmade buying binge, so I guess the pendulum has swung to the quality side.

 

[stoffi]

I've been buying a lot of Chinese knives now (SRM, Enlan, Ganzo and Navy) and it's sort of bitter-sweet. I like them and I don't. I mean, the price is great for most of them; except the newer ones, like the Mingren (SRM?) 910 Plus and so on. Having said that, I got the Mingren 910 Plus today and I think it's quite good, but it was way too expensive for me when shipped (customs + tax). More on the 910 Plus later on... so, the problem with these knives is that you get a pretty good knife for the most part, but almost all of the 14 chinese knives I got are too heavy, off balance (pommel-heavy), slippery (when they have slick metal grips; G10 is good though) or whatnot. There's always something, but most of it is something that you can modify on your own later on, at a small cost (skeletonize, upgrade washers, change screws etc.).

I was initially impressed with the Mingren 910 Plus, but I did however, bend the secondary lock while fondling the knife a bit (WTF?!), but it was OK since I could bend it back easily. I'm probably gonna exchange the secondary lock for a better washer later on. The blade is completely off center in the closed position and most of the pictures I've seen on this model seems to share the same flaw (leans to the right, when tip down in photo). It's also very pommel-heavy. I could go on about all the details, but my point is that there is always something about the chinese knives I've got that isn't perfect, but one must ask oneself: does it matter? I guess the only thing I would consider is whether or not these knives are safe to use in terms of lockup. I'm not always so reassured, especially with the axis-lock Ganzo 704s I've got (old- and new model). I mean, they barely engage. The knives themselves though, are really nice. The Enlan EL-02 (Umnumzaan-inspired handle design, anyone..?) seems to have a very secure axis-lock though (engages further) and I quite like it overall. It has slightly better balance than the 910 Plus and the G10 is the grippiest I own. Enlan EL-01 is a nice blade too, but it's very heavy and the three I got were not very consistent with each other in terms of fit and finish. Also, they all had different generation pivots, which I think are proprietary.

 

[jbmonkey]

Still don't get it? OK, I'll spell it out for you.

SRM is a despicable company. They steal designs, trademarks, and patents. So when they get "stolen" from, I have zero sympathy. I just laugh.

funny thanks for the video laugh.

we would have to say the same thing about microtech too then.....because of this same kinda of crime commited by srm......i can assume we are gonna hold every brand to the same standards....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/901807-The-Original-0777?highlight=microtech+0777

 

[like em sharp]

SRM is a despicable company. They steal designs, trademarks, and patents. So when they get "stolen" from, I have zero sympathy. I just laugh.

Question:

You rail on and on about how SRM is despicable and how they steal everything, but if that's the case why do Western manufacturers keep doing business with them?

Either those manufacturers don't care that SRM does it, or they have an agreement in place that allows SRM to sell modified versions of those knives in China. If the former is true I'm wondering why I should care. If the latter is true you're slandering the company for no reason other than it makes you feel good.

 

[diegokid]

I'm a new member. Last week a poster (who I wish I could thank, mentioned SRM 910+ for 17.99 CAD. Ebay's lowest price was $78 US. I doubted he was correct, but went to Bushcraft Canada, which sells some very expensive and exotic knives. They were closing out their SRM 910+s. Shipping is $18 so I bought three 910+s. They arrived today and I'm extremely pleased, marked Sandvik and fit and finish and blade action was fantastic out of the box. Don't get me wrong, it's no Sebenza, but I can't afford one!

BTW the action was smooth compared to the Navy K-631 and the Enlan EL-03C I bought recently. I had to repeatedly work and clean the pivot point on the Navy that had the feel of concrete on concrete when I first opened it. It's getting smoother, but no where neat the 910+ out of the box and the Navy cost me more.

 

[IABIGBUCKGUY]

I'm seeing the Sanrenmu Mingren 910 plus selling for $38-$40 on that big auction site and I really want to buy one but I want to here some more reviews of the knife. Has anyone pulled the trigger and bought one yet besides diegokid ????

 

[nopyo]

I wouldn't buy one just because it has that secondary lock (same as the CRKT LAWKS). It's an inconvenience and just another thing to break.

Also, the way I see it, the only point of buying a SanRenMu is to have a 10-dollar knife that isn't completely crap. Beyond 20 dollars, there's no point in buying a knife that isn't backed by an American company.

I'm sure the 910 is a solid product, and SanRenMu's warranty sounds good on paper, but buying a $40 knife without the possibility of having it serviced in the US is not really a good idea.

 

[IABIGBUCKGUY]

I know what your saying. I wish I could just find one here locally at a flee market or ? Just to Handle it and see for myself if its worth the money

 

[Fanglekai]

I wouldn't buy one just because it has that secondary lock (same as the CRKT LAWKS). It's an inconvenience and just another thing to break.

Also, the way I see it, the only point of buying a SanRenMu is to have a 10-dollar knife that isn't completely crap. Beyond 20 dollars, there's no point in buying a knife that isn't backed by an American company.

I'm sure the 910 is a solid product, and SanRenMu's warranty sounds good on paper, but buying a $40 knife without the possibility of having it serviced in the US is not really a good idea.

I agree. For $10 or less they're ok. Kershaw has a surprising number of budget knives, and they are backed by a lifetime warranty.