SanRenMu is back. Sort of.

Status
Not open for further replies.
I was under the impression that the people of China weren't allowed to buy anything but culinary knives.
 
Sadly Sanrenmu is a manufacturer for the Chinese lines of some popular brands. For this reason I cannot buy budget knives even from companies I like because I don’t know which ones are made by who. Sadly this stuff is as clear as mud.
 
BeyondTheBox said:
Lol not sure what reading more would do. If you have a point to make please do. Don't hint that I can learn if I somehow read more without any direction as to what specifically I should read. Just teach away mon senior.
Click to expand...

Well, based on your post in another thread you don’t know what a flipper or an Emerson wave are. You also don’t know why clones are bad. Those are three things often discussed on this forum. Perhaps you could start there?

There truly is a lot to learn on here if you want to. That is one of the main reasons many people come here.
 
Last edited:
danbot said:
SMH. You've come to the wrong place if you are proud to own rip-offs. Too cheap to buy an honest knife from a reputable company. Sad.
Click to expand...

It's a wrong thing to assume that I don't own an "honest knife" from a "reputable company". I've got those also. I just don't agree with the entire notion of patents or intellectual property, or, rather, not in the way we currently handle and restrict based upon them.

But I've got Gerbers, Cold Steels, Spydercos, Byrds, Moras, CRKTs, SOGs, and several others both current and past. I've also got a couple SanRenMu and Ganzo.

SpySmasher said:
The way you see it is ridiculous.

They don't pay license fees for patented mechanisms. They don't pay designers. They don't pay all that much to their workers either. They don't do any QC or design testing. They use inferior materials to create cheap knock-offs from the work of talented, hard-working people and sell them to self-indulgent leeches.
Click to expand...

I'll say again for this, I disagree completely with patents and think they might to be dispensed with. Designers hello them to create and lead the way. They reap the benefits for it, because there will always be people out there willing to pay the extra for the "real deal", especially when they use better and more cutting edge steels (pardon the pun).

Are the rip-offs cheap? Yup. That's why they sell. For those of us who are either can't afford the real deal, or simply don't see the sense in it and don't like spending money in that way. There rest just seems like virtue signaling to make you feel better. If that's what you need then preach on preacher man. You won't offend this leech. Insert wink and gun here.

unwisefool said:
You're right, it's not a popular opinion and for good reason, people don't like thieves.

Benchmade does have some expensive knives, but the majority of their designs are not that much higher than other brands.
Click to expand...

I detest thievery myself. I don't, at all, consider this to be a case of such.

Do they copy? Yup, sure do. But it seems to me that you all are conflating things to a major degree. They aren't branded Benchmade. They aren't trying to pass their products off as anyone else's. And nobody is buying them trying to pretend they have a Benchmade (just using this brand for example since it started without this example). To me that's a clear line between ripoff and copy and I take no issue with copy. There are all kinds of examples of copies out there, like every puukko or Scandi grind. Down to even the fact that we're still forging blades. Someone already did it.

Anyway, we're likely not going to agree here. You're probably going to keep saying the same words in different arrangements and it's not going to change my mind as I've clearly illustrated here that my stance is against the entire notion where your argument begins... With patents and "intellectual property".
 
bearfacedkiller said:
Well, based on your post in another thread you don’t know what a flipper or an Emerson wave are. You also don’t know why clones are bad. Those are three things often discussed on this forum. Perhaps you could start there?

There truly is a lot to learn on here if you want to. That is one of the main reasons many people come here.
Click to expand...

Reading about semantics and opinion based thoughts isn't at all my idea of learning. A flipper or folder or flyer... Colloquialisms, nothing more. They're knives, I get it. I'll pick up the terms based in context as I go. They are off zero importance really. But sure, let's say you've got a point there, I'll concede that. I have room to learn the terminology used in the knife forum world.

Let's get to what's really being discussed and not throwing in random stuff to confuse the issue with inconsequential and tangential things. It's not that I don't know why clones are bad to those claiming it so, it's a fundamental disagreement of principals. I understand what people are saying, so far at least. I disagree with the points made. If the product is inferior then it isn't competition, thus it isn't something even worth talking about as far as I'm concerned. I think everyone else should take this stance too.

In reality it's all just a way for people to get all self righteous and indignant as a smoke screen to justify how much they spend on their interest. It's faux outage. That's the way I see it as it stands. If someone has more info that hasn't been stated yet and I might not have taken into consideration, then I'm open to it and to changing my tune. I can only base my opinions and conclusions on the information I have at the moment I'm making them. So no need to go getting all ruffled here guys.

As for the "employees not paid well" or "paid pennies", that would be accurate if you were comparing them to American jobs and minimum wages. But things are very very very different in other countries and growth always had a beginning. I wouldn't dare take away the jobs they have as I'm sure they're very proud and happy with what they have and make. You can't compare wages without comparing economical standings varying costs of living.
 
I didn't know of the brand Sanrenmu until a few months ago and I certainly didn't know that they had copies of other knives until today.

Then again, I don't know every knife made by every maker and my job is NOT to protect their intellectual property. That is why laws, lawyers and governments exist. I certainly have no interest in the price range and design of CRK and the like so I wouldn't know if something is a copy or not.

I watched some videos on youtube(mainly Skallagrim & Slingshot Channel) where they featured some knives of that brand and I decided to get some. What I got was of really high quality and great design. The Sanrenmu 7094 is the best & most useful 15 dollars I spent on a knife. That is all I know.

About the cloning, I do not agree with it. But, it is not as if only the Chinese brands do it. I've seen Gerber, for example, copy CRKT and Fox. I don't see much Gerber trashing around here other than quality flaws... I think this brand is being trashed here in particular because it is Chinese.
 
PS, looks like I wasn't wrong after all, calling my knife a flipper. I'll admit, by dumb luck, but still, I'll take the wins where they come. Lol

I feel like this is a "neener" moment...

Flipper knives might add in studs or holes as they see fit, but are often operated by a single small lever, used to facilitate the deployment of the blade with one hand. Ernie Emerson devised the Emerson Wave system, which seems to be directly, or at least tangentially, tied to the way a flipper knife works.
 
BeyondTheBox said:
PS, looks like I wasn't wrong after all, calling my knife a flipper. I'll admit, by dumb luck, but still, I'll take the wins where they come. Lol

I feel like this is a "neener" moment...

Flipper knives might add in studs or holes as they see fit, but are often operated by a single small lever, used to facilitate the deployment of the blade with one hand. Ernie Emerson devised the Emerson Wave system, which seems to be directly, or at least tangentially, tied to the way a flipper knife works.
Click to expand...

A flipper tab and a wave are pretty different. You push on a flipper tab to open a knife when you pull it out of your pocket. The wave is a small hook that catches the seam of your pocket as you pull the knife out and pulls the blade open.
 
BeyondTheBox said:
Lol not sure what reading more would do. If you have a point to make please do. Don't hint that I can learn if I somehow read more without any direction as to what specifically I should read. Just teach away mon senior.
Click to expand...
You could start by reading the rules. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...t-mad-at-me-if-you-ignore-these-rules.349040/
You’ve already devolved into political discussion in violation of GKD rules. There’s a place for that type of discussion and it ain’t here. See, that’s what I mean by “read more, post less”.

Here’s to hoping you stick around long enough to learn about knives and the knife community.
 
BeyondTheBox said:
...It's not that I don't know why clones are bad to those claiming it so, it's a fundamental disagreement of principals. I understand what people are saying, so far at least. I disagree with the points made. If the product is inferior then it isn't competition, thus it isn't something even worth talking about as far as I'm concerned. I think everyone else should take this stance too.
Click to expand...
If the product is inferior, then it isn't competition?

GET REAL! These "non-competition" knives that you love so much just about destroyed Spyderco a few years back. They force real designers and manufacturers to raise the prices of their own goods. Why? Because of the added expenses incurred from customer complaints, that's why. Pretty basic, really. Can you not understand that?
 
"I detest thievery myself. I don't, at all, consider this to be a case of such."

So wait, why is taking someone else's design and making money off it but not paying the designer not theft?
 
BeyondTheBox said:
It's a wrong thing to assume that I don't own an "honest knife" from a "reputable company". I've got those also. I just don't agree with the entire notion of patents or intellectual property, or, rather, not in the way we currently handle and restrict based upon them.
Click to expand...
The "way we currently handle and restrict" based upon patents has not changed since patents were first conceived. A patent expires for a reason. Those that will not wait for that are stealing and those that knowingly buy and/or sell their stolen designs are complicit in their theft. Simple.
BeyondTheBox said:
Are the rip-offs cheap? Yup. That's why they sell. For those of us who are either can't afford the real deal, or simply don't see the sense in it and don't like spending money in that way. There rest just seems like virtue signaling to make you feel better. If that's what you need then preach on preacher man. You won't offend this leech. Insert wink and gun here.
Click to expand...
Your aversion and disdain for patents and IP is virtue signaling to make you feel better (justified) for supporting thieves.
 
BeyondTheBox said:
I'll say again for this, I disagree completely with patents and think they might to be dispensed with. Designers hello them to create and lead the way. They reap the benefits for it, because there will always be people out there willing to pay the extra for the "real deal", especially when they use better and more cutting edge steels (pardon the pun).
Click to expand...

These are the ignorant and offensive words of somebody who has neither owned a business nor produced one iota of intellectual property.

My company used to produce high quality electronics kits that catered to a very specific hobby market. We priced them at what the market would bear and made fairly small margins, but it was a successful product line. That worked fine for a few years...until China showed up. They stole our designs, undercut us with cheaper parts and labor, and completely drove us out of the market within a year.

Please, keep going the way you've been going. I eagerly await the inevitable outcome.
 
BeyondTheBox said:
It's a wrong thing to assume that I don't own an "honest knife" from a "reputable company". I've got those also. I just don't agree with the entire notion of patents or intellectual property, or, rather, not in the way we currently handle and restrict based upon them.

But I've got Gerbers, Cold Steels, Spydercos, Byrds, Moras, CRKTs, SOGs, and several others both current and past. I've also got a couple SanRenMu and Ganzo.



I'll say again for this, I disagree completely with patents and think they might to be dispensed with. Designers hello them to create and lead the way. They reap the benefits for it, because there will always be people out there willing to pay the extra for the "real deal", especially when they use better and more cutting edge steels (pardon the pun).

Are the rip-offs cheap? Yup. That's why they sell. For those of us who are either can't afford the real deal, or simply don't see the sense in it and don't like spending money in that way. There rest just seems like virtue signaling to make you feel better. If that's what you need then preach on preacher man. You won't offend this leech. Insert wink and gun here.



I detest thievery myself. I don't, at all, consider this to be a case of such.

Do they copy? Yup, sure do. But it seems to me that you all are conflating things to a major degree. They aren't branded Benchmade. They aren't trying to pass their products off as anyone else's. And nobody is buying them trying to pretend they have a Benchmade (just using this brand for example since it started without this example). To me that's a clear line between ripoff and copy and I take no issue with copy. There are all kinds of examples of copies out there, like every puukko or Scandi grind. Down to even the fact that we're still forging blades. Someone already did it.

Anyway, we're likely not going to agree here. You're probably going to keep saying the same words in different arrangements and it's not going to change my mind as I've clearly illustrated here that my stance is against the entire notion where your argument begins... With patents and "intellectual property".
Click to expand...

You can support companies that steal IP or detest thievery, not both. Your personal feelings about what constitutes thievery don't matter in that equation.

So saying you detest thievery is just a weak attempt to disguise the fact that you don't particularly care about this kind of thievery. Which, hey, that's a position that one can absolutely hold, but when you also claim to detest thieves it makes you a liar.
 
Wow, pretty disappointed in knifenews for this. Sanrenmu is pretty much trying to male it seem like they provided the designs to the American companies. Check out this excerpt from the article:

"Main also frankly acknowledges the mixed blessing of that Sanrenmu association. Although the company is a household name in China, its reputation abroad – and specifically in the US – is somewhat checkered. In the crucial early days, accusations of copying designs from other companies kept Sanrenmu just short of general acceptance. “As Sanrenmu is mainly interested in the Chinese domestic market, we payed little attention to this,” Main admits. “However we think it is time we get our say: the fact is that Sanrenmu has never copied other designs.”

He tells us the company worked as an OEM for other, large knife companies, sometimes even sourcing existing Sanrenmu designs for those companies to use. This practice – along with the fact that Sanrenmu brand products intended only for the domestic Chinese market found their way overseas through third party resellers – lead to confusion and misinterpretation. “We have had bad press because we never defended ourselves,” Main summarizes. “The SRM brand, however, wants to shake free of these assumptions.” SRM will not make knives for any other company. “All designs are made in-house by Chinese designers, we have no intention to sell these designs on to others. This is the main ethos of SRM. We are taking quality and putting it in the hands of everyone.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top