SanRenMu is back. Sort of.

[craytab]

Hey everyone,

This is Ben Schwartz, News Editor for KnifeNews.

I've read through this thread and have decided to take down the article on SRM Knives. Hope it doesn't sound to PR-y when I say I genuinely appreciate the feedback. When I set out to cover SRM I knew it would be a touchy subject, but reading your feedback today I've decided I'm not happy with how the article came out.

Nothing in the story was intended as an endorsement or defense of SRM or Sanrenmu; we try to remain neutral and let the companies speak for themselves. Whenever we profile any company, we do so because we think it will be of interest to our readers. When I heard about SRM I figured readers would want to know about it. However, I neglected to realize just how sensitive a topic I was broaching and, in retrospect, further research, inquiries, and consideration were clearly required in this case.

Again, thank you for the feedback and additional perspective. Even though I've been doing this for some time now, every story is a learning experience.

Ben.

Thank you for doing the right thing. Hopefully, going forward, you can continue to do the right thing.

 

[marcinek]

Good healthy and honest competition creates quality and care. Those are the companies that should be supported and the others shunned.

Especially by the folks here. It's great to know the vast, vast majority do.

 

[craytab]

There is no suppression of Information going on here. Rather the opposite. The truth has been stated. The article that ignored the truth was called out. This community cares about clones and counterfeits. The website took down the article after realizing it was in fact a promotion of lying clone sellers. Good on them. Rational thought is still alive these days.

If you support the cloners and counterfeiters, it would be best for you to find a different community. We don't tolerate it here. Read the rules of this website.

 

[stonproject]

Imagine if the cloners and counterfeiters won this battle and good, reputable companies could no longer compete and were forced to close their doors! Does anyone really believe that these scumbags would care one bit about quality or customer service?
Good healthy and honest competition creates quality and care. Those are the companies that should be supported and the others shunned.

I dont think cloners would win in the knife industry ever. The market is fueled by enthusiasts, and even if Sanrenmu could make perfect clones of say a Benchmade, the majority of people would in this hobby would still get the Benchmade over the Sanrenmu. I think the people the clone market is catering to are people who aren't going to buy an expensive knife anyway.

 

[craytab]

I don't like any form of censorship . I'd rather see an issue treated more fully than simply buried . Provide the full story and let readers decide their own moral position . Most consumers are concerned primarily with the performance and value of a product . Beyond outright counterfeiting , most people just don't care .

They can't understand if the story is suppressed . More information ,rather than less ,is good in my book . Then people can decide for themselves what is important .

Provide full and accurate information , let the free market buyers decide what they buy within the law of the land . I still believe the best arguments to influence consumers center around quality , performance , value and CS . Just judging historically people don't generally respond well to shaming .

You willingly and knowingly buy and support counterfeiting. That is not what we do here. Your opinion on this subject will get called on the continued support you give to counterfeiting, everytime. Let's not suppress the facts.

 

[Legendary_Jarl]

Imagine if the cloners and counterfeiters won this battle and good, reputable companies could no longer compete and were forced to close their doors! Does anyone really believe that these scumbags would care one bit about quality or customer service?
Good healthy and honest competition creates quality and care. Those are the companies that should be supported and the others shunned.

I read today that there is a CRK Sebenza copy by Sanrenmu. The Sanrenmu model 710, I think. While it is clearly based in looks on the Sebenza it is made with cheap steel and sold at 15 dollars at the most. The CRK Sebenza starts at 375, I think. Could you please elaborate as to how a 15 dollar knife made with cheap steel can hurt a Chris Reeve Knife? Regardless if Sanrenmu didn't exist or copy the knife most people won't buy a CRK knife. That kind of price for a pocket knife is beyond what regular people can or would pay for a cutting utencil. People who buy that kind of knife is because they are knife nuts like the people in this forum or because they are recommende to buy that by one of us. They are really buying the Chris Reeves name stamped on the knife and what that means. Sanrenmu never claimed the Chris Reeves name or endorsement as far as I know. So how are they hurting CRK?

 

[marcinek]

I think the people the clone market is catering to are people who aren't going to buy an expensive knife anyway.

I'm sure you aren't using it as one, but that is another common excuse from the clone apologists. "Well, that person wasn't going to buy a Sebenza anyway." Empty. "So what" and "maybe they would have."

As for the market being taken over....look at what happened to Spydeco. Clones almost put them out of business, according to Sal Glesser.

 

[marcinek]

I read today that there is a CRK Sebenza copy by Sanrenmu. The Sanrenmu model 710, I think. While it is clearly based in looks on the Sebenza it is made with cheap steel and sold at 15 dollars at the most. The CRK Sebenza starts at 375, I think. Could you please elaborate as to how a 15 dollar knife made with cheap steel can hurt a Chris Reeve Knife? Regardless if Sanrenmu didn't exist or copy the knife most people won't buy a CRK knife. That kind of price for a pocket knife is beyond what regular people can or would pay for a cutting utencil. People who buy that kind of knife is because they are knife nuts like the people in this forum or because they are recommende to buy that by one of us. They are really buying the Chris Reeves name stamped on the knife and what that means. Sanrenmu never claimed the Chris Reeves name or endorsement as far as I know. So how are they hurting CRK?

I guess that makes it "not theft"?

 

[stonproject]

I'm sure you aren't using it as one, but that is another common excuse from the clone apologists. "Well, that person wasn't going to buy a Sebenza anyway." Empty. "So what" and "maybe they would have."

As for the market being taken over....look at what happened to Spydeco. Clones almost put them out of business, according to Sal Glesser.

You're right I wasn't using it as an excuse. If they were only going to spend a certain amount theres still companies that sell low priced products that deserve the money much more than the chinese clone market.

I know spyderco have been targeted much more in the counterfeit market than any other company (atleast from what ive seen)

 

[Legendary_Jarl]

I guess that makes it "not theft"?

You tell me.

I just went to McDonalds and had a round burger that had bacon, onion, meat and bbq sauce. Are they stealing from Carls Jr. And their Western Bacon Cheeseburger? Both are round and have the same basic ingredients...

 

[danbot]

I read today that there is a CRK Sebenza copy by Sanrenmu. The Sanrenmu model 710, I think. While it is clearly based in looks on the Sebenza it is made with cheap steel and sold at 15 dollars at the most. The CRK Sebenza starts at 375, I think. Could you please elaborate as to how a 15 dollar knife made with cheap steel can hurt a Chris Reeve Knife? Regardless if Sanrenmu didn't exist or copy the knife most people won't buy a CRK knife. That kind of price for a pocket knife is beyond what regular people can or would pay for a cutting utencil. People who buy that kind of knife is because they are knife nuts like the people in this forum or because they are recommende to buy that by one of us. They are really buying the Chris Reeves name stamped on the knife and what that means. Sanrenmu never claimed the Chris Reeves name or endorsement as far as I know. So how are they hurting CRK?

My point really is that these cloners/counterfeiters are not worthy of your $15. They are criminal scum and if they were to succeed in destroying good companies, people would finally realize it and care. But, it would be too late.

 

[danbot]

You tell me.

I just went to McDonalds and had a round burger that had bacon, onion, meat and bbq sauce. Are they stealing from Carls Jr. And their Western Bacon Cheeseburger? Both are round and have the same basic ingredients...

Does McDonalds duplicate Carl Jr's sauce and call it a "Western Bacon Cheeseburger" and sell it for half price?
Weak sauce argument there.

 

[Legendary_Jarl]

My point really is that these cloners/counterfeiters are not worthy of your $15. They are criminal scum and if they were to succeed in destroying good companies, people would finally realize it and care. But, it would be too late.

Again, please elaborate, how are they destroying good guy Chris Reeves who sells overpriced knives for over 500 dollars? They are not claiming the name Chris Reeves, they are not using the steel developed by Chris Reeves, they are not claiming the quality of Chris Reeves, or his endorsement. They merely used the shape. That's like saying Ford is stealing from Ferrari and I shouldn't buy a Ford. Chris Reeves is a different niche of knife just like Ferrari is a different niche of car.

 

[marcinek]

Does McDonalds duplicate Carl Jr's sauce and call it a "Western Bacon Cheeseburger" and sell it for half price?
Weak sauce argument there.

"Weak sauce"?!? Oh, nice.

 

[marcinek]

Again, please elaborate, how are they destroying good guy Chris Reeves who sells overpriced knives for over 500 dollars? They are not claiming the name Chris Reeves, they are not using the steel developed by Chris Reeves, they are not claiming the quality of Chris Reeves, or his endorsement. They merely used the shape. That's like saying Ford is stealing from Ferrari and I shouldn't buy a Ford. Chris Reeves is a different niche of knife just like Ferrari is a different niche of car.

"Used his shape"

Hey, if that excuse works for you, great. I got my car "used" once, wasn't too happy about it.

 

[katanas]

Lengendary-Jarl, give it up, you will NEVER convince the moral police of ANYTHING regarding the copying of designs. The fact that there are design copies (as opposed to counterfeits, which ARE reprehensible IMO )of just about every popular knife made (Buck 110, Trappers, Barlows, etc.) is not relevant to them. I have NO idea why , though I have read their rationalizations over and over. I am aware it is also the policy of this Forum Site so I try to stay away from the topic, YMMV.

 

[Legendary_Jarl]

Does McDonalds duplicate Carl Jr's sauce and call it a "Western Bacon Cheeseburger" and sell it for half price?
Weak sauce argument there.

No, and neither does Sanrenmu. The knife based on the Sebenza is called Sanrenmu 710, made with some cheap Chinese steel.

 

[marcinek]

Again, please elaborate, how are they destroying good guy Chris Reeves who sells overpriced knives for over 500 dollars?

Ah. His knives are "overpriced," so it is OK.

That is a new one.

 

[danbot]

Again, please elaborate, how are they destroying good guy Chris Reeves who sells overpriced knives for over 500 dollars? They are not claiming the name Chris Reeves, they are not using the steel developed by Chris Reeves, they are not claiming the quality of Chris Reeves, or his endorsement. They merely used the shape. That's like saying Ford is stealing from Ferrari and I shouldn't buy a Ford. Chris Reeves is a different niche of knife just like Ferrari is a different niche of car.

If they did claim the name and up the price, they most certainly could do serious damage to his brand. Why would you want to support thieves to buy a not Chris Reeves knife anyway? Do you need a fake status symbol to make you feel better about yourself or something?

 

[Mo2]

I read today that there is a CRK Sebenza copy by Sanrenmu. The Sanrenmu model 710, I think. While it is clearly based in looks on the Sebenza it is made with cheap steel and sold at 15 dollars at the most. The CRK Sebenza starts at 375, I think. Could you please elaborate as to how a 15 dollar knife made with cheap steel can hurt a Chris Reeve Knife? Regardless if Sanrenmu didn't exist or copy the knife most people won't buy a CRK knife. That kind of price for a pocket knife is beyond what regular people can or would pay for a cutting utencil. People who buy that kind of knife is because they are knife nuts like the people in this forum or because they are recommende to buy that by one of us. They are really buying the Chris Reeves name stamped on the knife and what that means. Sanrenmu never claimed the Chris Reeves name or endorsement as far as I know. So how are they hurting CRK?

Its not there design to make. It's not hard to make an original design.