Say it ain’t so, Case!

[sabre cat]

Thanks. I try. You were just the guy who finally bit on that line. Surprised it took so long.

I'm surprised also. Nobody was taking the bait and it was driving me nuts.

 

[KingMC]

I like the fact this can't even be discussed in the Traditional Forum.

Just like most of the subforums here the Traditional subforum is designed to be an area for a certain group of knives to be discussed, and as such has guidelines and rules as to the content to prevent too much off-topic content; it just so happens that pocket clips are not common on the prototypical 'traditional' knife thus they became a disqualification for discussion there to help with on-topic content.

I hate the traditional subforum. I ended up there because I searched trapper lock because my dad wanted one. I commented on a post someone else made on said trapper lock and was berated by a bunch of butt hurt old timers because, a trapper with a thumb stud apparently isn't a trapper and I was in the wrong forum. I will never go back there lol.

I don't see how this is relevant to the conversation, you had a bad experience that may or may not have been self-inflicted due to topic being discussed (thumbstuds being off-topic in the traditional subforum) but I don't see how that's relevant to this thread's topic. I don't spend any time in the traditional subforum but that has zero bearing on how good of a subforum is being run over in the traditional sub.

 

[Wowbagger]

Funny you should mention the Case Trapper.
Just got another one today. One of my all time favorite handle shape /users.

I decided some time ago that the full size trapper is too thick to have a pocket clip (for me). Or I would have added a clip(s) to the Trappers I have.

I took the pocket clip off my Ti Lite for the same reason and now carry it in a belt pouch.
The Para 2 is just the right thickness for clipping to a pocket and still being able to get past it to other items in the pocket. Some comparisons (see photo).
The new Trapper has gun stock diamond texture on the scales. I have wanted one of these for years. Why do I never see one in the forums ? ? ? ?



For anyone who cares here's the other side of the Trapper. Thankfully it has less undyed bone on that side. What is it with knife companies leaving random and unattractive undyed areas in the bone. I could understand it they had kind of a balanced, planned theme but this just looks like a mistake to me. I will keep it and grow to love it but . . .

Any way I'm not disappointed that I missed getting a pocket clip on my Trappers.
Let us know how they are. Maybe I can be swayed .

 

[jimmyd1982]

The virtues of a traditional knife are purely aesthetic -- nostalgia, looks, and SOME immunity to the cultural stigma surrounding knives. None of their virtues are related to the actual utility of knives themselves. Which is ironic considering how much time "traditional only" guys and gals will spend trying to convince you (themselves?) of how utilitarian traditional knives are.

Explaining the obvious and simple value of a pocket clip to them is useless.

You left out one of the biggest advantages traditionals have over most modern folders, a lot of them have multiple blades.

 

[leghog]

The virtues of a traditional knife are purely aesthetic -- nostalgia, looks, and SOME immunity to the cultural stigma surrounding knives.

...and blade geometry with resulting cutting and slicing ability which traditionals by and large, as a genre, have hands of fists over more modern designs.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I would argue one big advantage traditionals have is cutting geometry. The majority of traditionals use grinds better suited to slicing than the majority of modern folders. Speaking only for myself, I find the convenience of modern materials, construction methods, pocket clips and one handed opening outweighs the aesthetics and cutting geometry that comes with traditional knives, but I do wish there were more blades that combined those aspects.

I didn't mention that because while I agree that the majority of traditionals use more slicy grinds than the majority of modern knives that is not absolutely the case. There are many modern knives just as slicy as traditionals and if utility is what "traditional only" enthusiasts really cared about, they'd buy those slicy modern knives with all their other utilitarian virtues.

Slicy geometry is not a virtue of all traditionals nor missing from moderns as subsets of knives.

I'm speaking as someone who likes the aesthetics of traditionals and owns several but I don't fool myself about their qualities or think that any deviation from the old ways is somehow "worse."

...and blade geometry with resulting cutting and slicing ability which traditionals by and large, as a genre, have hands of fists over more modern designs.

 

[Dean51]

I'm trying to put it kindly but the clip on the Case trapper just looks like a cheap after thought. It doesn't look like it belongs there. Having said that, it is kind of sad it was moved out of the traditional forum on the second post. The mod is aware there have been traditional's with pocket clips before. The melon tester in post #14 is a perfect example.
While I understand the rules of the traditional forum, it is those rules that are helping to kill traditional knives. To say the traditional knife is dying would not be an understatement. Change is not bad and you can change the bath water with out throwing out the baby.

I would bet Case is feeling the pressure from the cheap Teddy Roosevelt Case knock offs aka Rough Rider. Case is trying to do something to increase sales but a pocket clip or thumb stud isn't the answer.
Maybe Case should try some new interesting patterns, instead of the same old poop in a new color.
Upgrade their steel to 1095 and AUS-8 and for the first time in Case history a good heat treat. Instead of the very soft 420HC and CV mystery steel.

 

[jimmyd1982]

While I understand the rules of the traditional forum, it is those rules that are helping to kill traditional knives. To say the traditional knife is dying would not be an understatement.

Not an understatement, just completely incorrect.
Some of the best selling knives in the world are traditionals. Just look at Swiss army knives, Buck 110's, Opinel's, etc.

 

[Dean51]

Just my opinion but I do not consider Swiss army knives traditional. They're in they're in their own class.
Case, Bear and Son, Buck, GEC those are the bigger U.S. companies left.
The list of makes that are gone to history is much longer than the surviving companies. Schrade, Camillus, CSC, Queen, Uncle Henry, Old Timer, Ulster, and the list goes on and on.
Rough Rider, Frost etc are just cheap knock offs, not traditional.

I saw a post on AAPK in chart form, I didn't think much about it until I broke down the numbers a bit.
89% of the traditional users were over the age of 40.
Of those 53% were over the age of 60.
Of the remaining 11% only 3% were under 29.
That doesn't leave a lot of new users flocking to traditional knives.

 

[r8shell]

I didn't mention that because while I agree that the majority of traditionals use more slicy grinds than the majority of modern knives that is not absolutely the case. There are many modern knives just as slicy as traditionals and if utility is what "traditional only" enthusiasts really cared about, they'd buy those slicy modern knives with all their other utilitarian virtues.

Slicy geometry is not a virtue of all traditionals nor missing from moderns as subsets of knives.

I'm speaking as someone who likes the aesthetics of traditionals and owns several but I don't fool myself about their qualities or think that any deviation from the old ways is somehow "worse."

There are certain tasks, like whittling, for which a traditional knife with multiple, thin, short blades are best suited. IMHO. I enjoy the variety of patterns, materials, history of traditional knives. I also like modern one-hand-opening clipped knives, I just don't discuss them in the traditional area of the forum. It's a spipjslippery slope, and sometimes folks don't all agree on where to draw the line. The clip on that Case looks tacked-on to me without much thought to aesthetics, but I can see the utility of it.

 

[jimmyd1982]

It's a spipjslippery slope, and sometimes folks don't all agree on where to draw the line.

 

[Reitwagen]

This:

Maybe Case should try some new interesting patterns, instead of the same old poop in a new color.
Upgrade their steel to 1095 and AUS-8 and for the first time in Case history a good heat treat. Instead of the very soft 420HC and CV mystery steel.

 

[fielder]

At last! I love pocket clips even on otherwise traditional knives, so much more convenient. I'll buy one.

 

[SpySmasher]

...and blade geometry with resulting cutting and slicing ability which traditionals by and large, as a genre, have hands of fists over more modern designs.

As Insipid Moniker indicated, I addressed that above.

You left out one of the biggest advantages traditionals have over most modern folders, a lot of them have multiple blades.

There are certain tasks, like whittling, for which a traditional knife with multiple, thin, short blades are best suited. IMHO.

This is the same argument, essentially, as the blade geometry argument and it has the same answer: while many traditional knives have multiple blades, not all do. Nor is it the case that all modern knives have only one blade. Flexcut makes a series of modern, multi-blade folding knives designed specifically for whittling and woodwork. Heck, they make one specifically for whittling spoons.

The only aspects of traditional knives which are EXCLUSIVE to traditional knives are the aesthetic ones. Like many people, I love that aesthetic but when I am buying one all I am really buying is the best looking or most nostalgic knife, not the most utilitarian. I would never accuse anyone because I don't really know, but I wonder how many "traditionals only" folks would ever admit that they are the ones carrying "pocket jewelry." I feel like that description is most often directed at the "titanium flipper" crowd.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Sound idea, poor execution. Looks like a clunky afterthought. Machine out the bolster instead and do a narrow clip with the screws aligned with the clip rather than flanking it. Should be made as low-profile as possible.

 

[Astronaut FX]

Just like most of the subforums here the Traditional subforum is designed to be an area for a certain group of knives to be discussed, and as such has guidelines and rules as to the content to prevent too much off-topic content; it just so happens that pocket clips are not common on the prototypical 'traditional' knife thus they became a disqualification for discussion there to help with on-topic content.

That explanation, while appreciated, doesn’t really help make sense of how a feature change to a production traditional knife is off topic in the Traditional Forum. Seems the most logical place for it to me, especially when they have a 90+ page thread on modified traditionals.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...traditional-only.982153/page-89#post-18001517

User mods, on topic...manufacturer feature change, off topic. Not for me to say I suppose, and certainly not worth making a stink about, just sharing my perspective on what seems odd.

 

[jimmyd1982]

That explanation, while appreciated, doesn’t really help make sense of how a feature change to a production traditional knife is off topic in the Traditional Forum. Seems the most logical place for it to me, especially when they have a 90+ page thread on modified traditionals.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...traditional-only.982153/page-89#post-18001517

User mods, on topic...manufacturer feature change, off topic. Not for me to say I suppose, and certainly not worth making a stink about, just sharing my perspective on what seems odd.

Did you actually look through that thread? The modifications are things like changing the scales or changing blade shapes, they aren't changes that turn a traditional into a modern folder.
And it's not like the people that post in traditional are locked out of general, they can still post their opinions about it.

 

[Pilsner]

The folding knife I’m carrying and using most often at the moment is a very traditional German lock back - Mercator K55K. The design dates back to the mid 19th century.

I adore modern knives and have far more of them than traditional knives. However, with few exceptions, the sliciest knives I own are the aforementioned Mercator, SAK’s, Opinels, Douk Douk, etc. The blade stock is thinner in nearly every case, and they all have a full flat grind.

One of my favourite folders is the Fällkniven PXL-WH, but I would be lying if I claimed it was as slicey as any of the knives listed above. It cuts beautifully, but with the thick blade stock and convex grind, it will never slice like Mercator.

 

[shinyedges]

Not an understatement, just completely incorrect.
Some of the best selling knives in the world are traditionals. Just look at Swiss army knives, Buck 110's, Opinel's, etc.

Anyone who thinks traditionals are dying out hasn't tried to acquire a gec beer scout or Barlow recently. They sell out and are flipped for ridiculous prices stupid fast.

 

[Pomsbz]

Anyone who thinks traditionals are dying out hasn't tried to acquire a gec beer scout or Barlow recently. They sell out and are flipped for ridiculous prices stupid fast.

A few hundreds worldwide and the numbers are still dropping. If they weren't so rare as to form their own collectors market, they wouldn't be worth a fraction of the amount.