Schatt & Morgan

Razor

Razor

Joined
Dec 8, 1999
Messages
3,975
Is the fit and finish on these knives any better than on a Queen? I kinda got the fever for the barlow that KC has on his sight. Would a knife with a overall length of 5" be to big for pocket carry?
 
I'm assuming you're probably talking about one of these Big Daddies?

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Fit & finish is pretty good overall, but in general, I'm not that crazy about S&Ms. Personally, for knives that are in the same price range as GECs (or more), I expected a little more attention to detail from the two that I've purchased. From a distance, they're great looking knives, but the devil is in the details. And they both came new, out of the box, as dull as butter knives with pretty poor grinds. So, I guess my opinion would be that if you can get a good deal on one, and if you don't mind having to probably put a little "love" into it, they're not bad knives.

As far as pocket carry goes, it's not a knife I would want to carry around much in my pocket - it's pretty big and heavy. But what one person versus another finds acceptable in the pocket is pretty subjective.

Or, if you don't really need a barlow quite that big, look at the GECs. There are even rumors of a "daddy" version coming out at some point...
 
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When GEC opened in late 2006 they took some personel from Queen for the new startup. Both Queen and S&M knives from 2005 and before (especially the File & Wire series I through III) are finely made knives. They still may have less than sharp edges, but the build quality is top notch. At least the dozen or so that I have owned have all been quite good.
 
Can't speak for the File&Wire Series with higher grade stainless, but the Keystone range with 420 has left me shortchanged. They look nice knives but the fit&finish on the ones I have/had was not that good: gaps a plenty, blade play. Not a cheap knife either. They seem to say 'collector shiny' to me rather than out right user, some good&interesting patterns granted, but the run of the mill Queen knives are cheaper and better (D2/carbon) GEC far better. A 5" knife is not a pocket knife to me, it's a deadweight:D Each to his own though.
 
willgoy said:
A 5" knife is not a pocket knife to me, it's a deadweight. :D Each to his own though.
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When it comes to pocket knives, I'm pretty much a 4's guy myself . . . no more than 4" closed and 4 ounces maximum.
 
I love the Schatt & Morgan designs a lot. Their bone jigging is beautiful! That said I have gotten and seen too many knives with blade wobble from them. Initial sharpness is never an issue with me because I reprofile anyway.
 
With the exception of my Heritage single blade jack, I've been very happy with my S&M's. Most have come sharp enough to use out of the box, but not hair shaving sharp. The 420HC models are easy enough for even me to sharpen too :D

I'm carrying a baby Sunfish today and I have to say it is my current favorite, and the FnF is terrific for a single spring knife, no gaps or rubs, blades nestled in just right and only needed a touch up to be nice and sharp.
 
I am sending in my two blade jack from the SM 2011 series, for spring issues. I carry my single blade jack everyday. The 2012 premium stockman was too thick, with loosey goosey springs and a barely there half stop. Half stop on the spey and sheepsfoot blades was nonexistent. I am excited to see that they are producing a scout knife, but I will need to see it firsthand at a show or in store before I buy it. I would like to see them stick with higher end steel, rather than 420, but they did it before on their line.
 
To answer your question, No the grandaddy barlow is not too big for pocket carry at all! In fact, I normally carry it with a handfull of other knives.




This is a pocket dump on a typical day! I don't put knives in the same pocket without a slip sheath on at least one.




As to fit and finish. It can be hit or miss. I have purchased two of the S&M file and wire barlows. One for me. I had to fix the gaps and blade wiggle. It was not too hard, but a bummer if you don't know how to.

My dad liked mine so much, he asked for one. I bought his, and it had nice tight bolster/liner fit. No gaps. No blade wiggle.

The blade stock seems a bit thinner, and they seem to be ground down to a bit thinner edge than the Queen grandady barlow I have. (Single blade Queen/Burke collab). I also had to fix some blade wiggle on that one.
 
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My Schatt and Morgan must be bad. It's a red boned folding hunter clip blade (...keystone handle inlay....). It's fit and finish is top notch. I will concede that it wuz not sharp. I soon fixed that. My take on them is that they are at least the equal of any of the GEC cuttlery (...i think because of the better manufacturing processes with CNC tooling...). Ive been collecting case and boker tree brand pocket knives since i wuz a kid (...long ago...). The Schatt and Morgan (...and GEC stuff for that matter...) is first class as to fit and finish. A new Schatt and Morgan is just as good (...if not better...) as to fit and finish as any of my old case or boker knives.

Hope this helps a bit.
leroy
 
I don't want to upset my apple cart here, but S&M has been somewhat hit or miss. I am giving away a 2011 S&M Heritage single blade jack. I think it is a pretty good knife; I carry my rosewood twin a lot. Just because I like rosewood better for the time being. The edge grinds are not particularly good being pretty large included angle and the blade behind the edge tends to be pretty thick on them. The ebony I am giving away is a little nicer knife overall than the rosewood I carry. It will need to have the edge reprofiled and sharpened.

All said the knives are pretty good IMO, but the same money would get you better workmanship at GEC if you find a pattern that you can substitute for the S&M you want.

Duncan gave me an S&M sowbelly trapper that is very nice. I like S&M patterns a lot but I wish they had a bit better workmanship. Maybe it will improve soon.

Ed J
 
I have to concur with those who are frustrated at the inconsistent nature of S&M's quality. When they get it right their knives are as nice as anyone's. But when they don't you've laid out a good bit of cash for something you probably don't want to use. Personally I decided the only way I'd consider buying one online was if it was from someone who would fully and accurately describe the condition.
 
I'm another who wishes that the File and Wire series weren't all so damned huge. I have a few, and all of mine have been nicely made, but they live in the drawer mostly given their size and weight. I like big folders, but the ones I carry have a clip and ride inside my waistband, making room for other things in the pockets.
 
I have a S&M Railsplitter whittler from 2010.
It looked almost perfect in the stock picture with shiny slanted bolsters and reverse wormgroove jigged bone.
It arrived and i wanted to throw up.
The first thing i noticed was how WIDE the knife is and how much uneccesary space was between the blades/liners/scales.
The fact that it is heavy doesn't bother me, but the massive gaps, lazy springs, and poor grinds sealed its fate.
Such a pretty knife from a distance, but as a user...it sucks.
S&M is/was miles behind GEC in regards to fit and finish IMO.
I hope the Daniels family can turn things around.
 
Thank for all the good info on the SM. I have a store where you can look at the knives before you buy. But the guy behind the counter does not like you telling him a knife is not that good put together. I don't care I tell him I don't want them. It is a shame because everyone else seems nice as can be. Sounds like the sowbelly trapper would be a better size. May just try and get a GEC or Queen.
 
Per "Is the fit and finish on these knives any better than on a Queen?" In general yes. However, it depends upon which Queen you talk about. Some of Queen's SFO are as good as S&M.

I have 3 S&M all in the ATS34. Except for some edge reprofiling, the fit and finish have been good on them all.

I don't care for GEC designs, too "big and clunky" so I can't really compare. To me the S&M have a nicer look, more elegant swedges, prettier bolsters...don't buy no ugly knife :)

Is it to big? Only you can tell. I have the S&M English Jack, which is a 5" knife and it carries well. It's a compact package for a two-blader, but still it makes an excellent fist-load. I also have a 2000 5" toothpick, and that carries real nice. I sometimes use a William and Henry sheath for it, but that's to keep it from being scratched up.
 
brownshoe said:
S&M have a nicer look, more elegant swedges, prettier bolsters...don't buy no ugly knife :)
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This. Schatt & Morgan's inconsistent quality is lamentable, but their designs are a cut above. They look like something you might pick up in a store or catalog from a hundred years ago.

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- Christian
 
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